List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade and FA

[Chrispiesssss]

 

[gouki88]

I've said we should be going for Lord

Kid is only 23 and when actually given the opportunity in a final he kicked 4

Add him to a forward line with a fit McStay and Checkers and it's fine for 2025

Is he actually any good though? I can't imagine that he's shown enough to command real value. Is the only thing that separates him from Reef a few cms?

 

[RobJD]

That’s it. He was a first-round pick when drafted, has developed and has attributes we value. Bust potential is considerably less than when drafted.

How much would people here be prepared to pay as an annual salary to “buy” another first-round pick?

I'd definitely be happy to pump-up Perryman's salary to Band 1 if we had an agreement with GWS that they'd trade the compensation pick to us on the cheap.

 

[Ugene41]

Yeah nah. Clubs have a general idea of where a bid will come for their prospects by the end of the season and can trade accordingly.

Aside from that, you’re crazy if you think GC are going to be able to monopolise almost an entire round of picks. They might end up with 3-5 depending on their needs.

Sure you might have a general idea of where the bid will come in but what if it's close? You leave it up to manipulation. Just look at Sydney holding GWS to ransom when they bid on Harry Rowston with Pick 16 and in the end GWS had to match with 17.

I'm not sure whether you've looked at the academy prospects for next year and the changes to the draft points. It's going to be very different to prior years. Gold Coast have Zeke Uwland who is potential to go no.1. With the new changes, they basically need the first 4 second round picks (19-22) to match. Otherwise they're likely to need 5x second rounders just to match Uwland. And they have a couple more academy picks that are likely to go first round also.

If Mcguane attracts a top 5 bid, we're going to need 3x early second round picks to match. If his bid comes around pick 10ish, we're going to need 2x mid second rounders to match or 3x late second rounders.

You've also got Brisbane and Sydney with highly rated academy players. Assuming 5-6 first round academy/FS bids, each likely to require 2-4x second rounders to match, you basically require the entire pool of 2nd rounders to be made available to match first round bids. That's very limited supply and extremely high demand and you can be sure the likes of GC will have more trade capital to outbid us for those second rounders.

If we go in next year with no second rounder and just our first rounder, our first rounder will have to be swallowed up by finding points to match Mcguane. In which case we might as well trade it this year for more value and bank some additional F2s before the market dramatically heats up next year.

 

[Everybody Panic]

If you don't want us paying overs, then we have to not go for free agents. Can only imagine how much LDU will go for next season, will be close to the highest paid player in the game. There was a lot of anger when McStay was said to be coming on 600k or so (forget exacts) now that would be considered cheap. Every good manager would be telling their clients to take shorter contracts leading to free agency so we have to get used to it.

 

[Jen2310]

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

I’m always skeptical of these sorts of judgements based of a tiny sample. “Oh but it was a final!” You say.

Remember in 2018 when he had an outstanding finals series, kicked 3 goals and took 7 marks against Geelong in the first final iirc, then was handed a 5 year $600k (big at the time) contract off the back of it?

How did that go?

Apologies but I don't know who you're talking about in the second part of your post. You don't mention a player.

I haven't watched Lord a lot, mostly because he hasn't played a tonne of senior footy, but when I have watched him he's looked pretty good. I didn't call him a star or anything.

The ONE time he was given an opportunity to play a final, he took that opportunity with both hands and kicked 4. Not sure what else you'd want from a then 21 year old?

We almost never recruit key forwards. It would be nice to actually bring one in that already has some development in him so we don't have to do all of it. I also don't think he'd cost us a tonne? I believe he's contracted until 2026 but given he's at least 3rd in line at Port, I don't think Port can suddenly demand a lot for him.

We also have Richards potentially looking to go to Port so maybe we can work something out there.

I haven't said anything about contract size or length.

All I've said is that I'd like us to pursue him.

 

[Scodog10]

2 questions.

1. What salary are you taking Perryman to be on? I've read reports of salaries ranging almost $200k.

2. Who are the 10 above him? Not to derail the thread, but I think he is probably into our top 10, assuming declines from some.

1. McStay was band 3 at $600-650k x 5 two years ago. Perryman will trigger band 2 so at least $800-850k x 6. Are you able to share reports of the $600-650k you’ve seen? I haven’t seen any that low so I’d be interested in where they’ve come from.

2. There’s a million ways you could slice this so I’m sort of mixing anticipated 2025 output and contract worth. In no order my top 10 is Daicos x2, JDG, IQ, Crisp, Mihocek, Cameron, Maynard, Hill and Mitchell. You could then throw Shoota, Noble, Elliott, Pendles, Steele, Howe and McStay in any order alongside Perryman. The Perryman of 2024 is about on par with Noble and I think a good outcome for 2025 Perryman would be to match 2024 Pendles.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Is he actually any good though? I can't imagine that he's shown enough to command real value. Is the only thing that separates him from Reef a few cms?

Anytime I've watched him play he's passed the eye test for me. I liked him. Not a superstar or anything but still pretty good for a 21/22 year old KPF in a side that has traditionally not had one of the better functioning forward lines in the comp

He got one crack at a final as a 21 year old and kicked 4. Which is as good as you can ask for given the context

 

[gouki88]

Apologies but I don't know who you're talking about in the second part of your post. You don't mention a player.

I haven't watched Lord a lot, mostly because he hasn't played a tonne of senior footy, but when I have watched him he's looked pretty good. I didn't call him a star or anything.

The ONE time he was given an opportunity to play a final, he took that opportunity with both hands and kicked 4. Not sure what else you'd want from a then 21 year old?

We almost never recruit key forwards. It would be nice to actually bring one in that already has some development in him so we don't have to do all of it. I also don't think he'd cost us a tonne? I believe he's contracted until 2026 but given he's at least 3rd in line at Port, I don't think Port can suddenly demand a lot for him.

We also have Richards potentially looking to go to Port so maybe we can work something out there.

I haven't said anything about contract size or length.

All I've said is that I'd like us to pursue him.

I think he was comparing him to Weideman

 

[Bianconeri]

I’m always skeptical of these sorts of judgements based of a tiny sample. “Oh but it was a final!” You say.

Remember in 2018 when he had an outstanding finals series, kicked 3 goals and took 7 marks against Geelong in the first final iirc, then was handed a 5 year $600k (big at the time) contract off the back of it?

How did that go?

Sam Weideman?

 

[The Magnificent Seven]

Apologies but I don't know who you're talking about in the second part of your post. You don't mention a player.

I haven't watched Lord a lot, mostly because he hasn't played a tonne of senior footy, but when I have watched him he's looked pretty good. I didn't call him a star or anything...

Just compared him to Reef and tbh we've come off better so far. He's 1cm taller than Reef but that's about it. I'd rather just develop Reef and save ourselves the bother.

 

[Ugene41]

Salary cap space is the greatest commodity in the game so I don’t agree. That pick 10 and Simpson may do nothing whereas Shoota is going to give us 120-150 matches on a contract that matches his list standing.

Ultimately you won’t be able to have your cake and eat it to in the form of Perryman’s signature leading to 5-10 list ranked players demanding increases and then going to market on the likes of LDU or King. Those veteran savings will get chewed up very quickly.

You gave examples of Hill, Maynard, IQ and Cameron as examples of higher ranked players that might want more pay given the contract to Perryman. Except IQ is signed for another 5 years until 2029, Cameron comes out of contract when he is 31, and Maynard comes out of contract when he is 29. Apart from Hill at 26 y.o. and maybe Maynard at 29 y.o. coming out of contract in 2026, none of the others will be at their peak contract earning years. We have Naicos and Jaicos secured until 2029 and 2030 where a new EBA is likely to be in place.

This is what I mean by our salary cap demographic and clearly what the club has planned for. The high earners are skewed towards older players who when they come out of contract, are likely to result in a lower contract rather than higher. We don't really have any top tier under 23 year olds that's likely to come out of contract in a few years time at 25/26 years old that will demand a massive contract increase commensurate with FA type deals offered to Perryman.

 

[Bramax]

We simply HAVE to be going hard at LDU next year

The club would be negligent in their duty if they're not in his ear from right now

Adding McGuane and LDU next year to Daicos, De Goey, Perryman, Beau, Allan and potentially still Mitchell? Chefs kiss

I’d love LDU but I have a sneaking suspicion he will remain at North.

 

[Scodog10]

I’m not sure I agree completely with your second paragraph. It could be bang on but it would be dependant on how we structure our FA offer contracts vs player retention contracts. As an example I’d say it’s likely all our top paid players are likely on contracts that rise incrementally in line with the CBA. I can’t imagine we’d be offering Perryman the numbers being reported in addition to CBA increases too, so in 2-3 years his contract suddenly becomes far more reasonable and palatable to other players who’ve had this explained to them.

If course this is just hypothetical because none of us actually know the numbers or the details.

Let’s treat it as not. That Perryman contract would justify $1m contracts (excluding CBA indexing) for Hill, Cameron, Maynard and IQ. At least that’s my line if I’m their respective managers.

If all of them are on that sort of coin plus the indexing for the contracts signed pre CBA for Daicos x 2, Moore and JDG that’s well above the increases to the salary cap across the life of the CBA. All of a sudden the $1.5m it takes to lure LDU away is a pipe dream as Allan, Parker and hopefully HDM come through requiring pay increases of their own…

 

[gouki88]

1. McStay was band 3 at $600-650k x 5 two years ago. Perryman will trigger band 2 so at least $800-850k x 6. Are you able to share reports of the $600-650k you’ve seen? I haven’t seen any that low so I’d be interested in where they’ve come from.

2. There’s a million ways you could slice this so I’m sort of mixing anticipated 2025 output and contract worth. In no order my top 10 is Daicos x2, JDG, IQ, Crisp, Mihocek, Cameron, Maynard, Hill and Mitchell. You could then throw Shoota, Noble, Elliott, Pendles, Steele, Howe and McStay in any order alongside Perryman. The Perryman of 2024 is about on par with Noble and I think a good outcome for 2025 Perryman would be to match 2024 Pendles.

Doesn't age come into consideration for the (as far as I can tell, rather unknown) formula for determining FA compo? Perryman is 2 years younger than McStay when we recruited him.

I've seen $700-850/900k around social media, so my chances of tracking it down are very slim to be honest!

I think I just rate Perryman higher given he seems best suited to midfield play with stints elsewhere, similar to Crisp (in role, not at all in playing style).

 

[Tarkyn_24]

I'd definitely be happy to pump-up Perryman's salary to Band 1 if we had an agreement with GWS that they'd trade the compensation pick to us on the cheap.

I’d be happy to do it for some livestock

 

[Bramax]

He won’t be Top 5 when the Cap surges by 25% and salaries rise for other players.

This is a really good point and you only have look at the $$ we paid for Dan McStay to understand how this works.
Most of us on here would agree that Dan is a bargain now when looking at the cap increasing and what he’s on for the remainder of his contract.

 

[Exambolor]

I think personally he stays more likely than not

 

[Bramax]

Somewhat surprised by the amount of teams with interest in Peatling.

When I learned of our interest I just assumed it's because we had a role for him and he'd be a best 22 player, but at the same time he wouldn't cost much, ie nothing more than a second rounder at worst... maybe even an early third.

But if he did choose us I'd be intrigued to know whether the amount of other interest has boosted his price as far as GWS are concerned?

He seems to be a late bloomer doesn’t he.
Definitely showed some good signs this year.

 

[Scodog10]

You gave examples of Hill, Maynard, IQ and Cameron as examples of higher ranked players that might want more pay given the contract to Perryman. Except IQ is signed for another 5 years until 2029, Cameron comes out of contract when he is 31, and Maynard comes out of contract when he is 29. Apart from Hill at 26 y.o. and maybe Maynard at 29 y.o. coming out of contract in 2026, none of the others will be at their peak contract earning years. We have Naicos and Jaicos secured until 2029 and 2030 where a new EBA is likely to be in place.

This is what I mean by our salary cap demographic and clearly what the club has planned for. The high earners are skewed towards older players who when they come out of contract, are likely to result in a lower contract rather than higher. We don't really have any top tier under 23 year olds that's likely to come out of contract in a few years time at 25/26 years old that will demand a massive contract increase commensurate with FA type deals offered to Perryman.

Since when has the AFL market operated in a bubble? Merrett is signed for the same period as IQ and will use the St Kilda offer as leverage to have Essendon re-structure his deal. The same will happen with IQ because managers are actually good at their job.

You’re also kidding yourself if you think Cameron next year (because we’ll attempt to sign him before the final year of his contract) is not going to be getting offers north of $1m after the season he’s just had. All 4 are in line for big increases given the contract Perryman is about to sign.

 

[Jen2310]

I think personally he stays more likely than not

I agree. I think he stays now.

 

[Bramax]

Cornes hasn’t got a clue.

Maybe he’s also a bit jealous that Port missed him after all the work they put in.

 

[Ugene41]

1. McStay was band 3 at $600-650k x 5 two years ago. Perryman will trigger band 2 so at least $800-850k x 6. Are you able to share reports of the $600-650k you’ve seen? I haven’t seen any that low so I’d be interested in where they’ve come from.

2. There’s a million ways you could slice this so I’m sort of mixing anticipated 2025 output and contract worth. In no order my top 10 is Daicos x2, JDG, IQ, Crisp, Mihocek, Cameron, Maynard, Hill and Mitchell. You could then throw Shoota, Noble, Elliott, Pendles, Steele, Howe and McStay in any order alongside Perryman. The Perryman of 2024 is about on par with Noble and I think a good outcome for 2025 Perryman would be to match 2024 Pendles.

I think your point 2 really highlights why Perryman's contract won't be an issue.

All the higher ranked players are either signed up to long term contracts already so won't be demanding pay rises any time soon or they are older players where their next contract is likely to be the same or lower as their output declines.

The only two in that list is Maynard at 29 y.o. and Hill at 26 y.o. when they come out of contract in the next couple of years where their managers might use Perryman's contract as an example to demand a higher pay rise.

 

[Mooresome]

Let’s treat it as not. That Perryman contract would justify $1m contracts (excluding CBA indexing) for Hill, Cameron, Maynard and IQ. At least that’s my line if I’m their respective managers.

If all of them are on that sort of coin plus the indexing for the contracts signed pre CBA for Daicos x 2, Moore and JDG that’s well above the increases to the salary cap across the life of the CBA. All of a sudden the $1.5m it takes to lure LDU away is a pipe dream as Allan, Parker and hopefully HDM come through requiring pay increases of their own…

Overrating a couple of those imo based off vision and stats ,only two that are anywhere near Perryman are Hill and Maynard