List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency Part 9

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But this upcoming draft is super strong according to all the experts. Why not just load up this year and take advantage of a golden opportunity that’s presented itself. Stuff trading into the unknown next year, grab the talent this year if it’s there

Hartley and Toce would be well aware of the talent on offer next year.

 

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Sorry RT but that edited version is way overs.

That's a first others have said 8 & 13 for Bolton. this year is unders

 

[Maurice Mitchell]

We’ve won nothing all year so would be nice to win trade week!

We’ll be up against a Dynasty club.

 

[T4P]

Goes to show how good FJ was. His record is every bit as good and we sacked him just before a flag

Wells nails a lot of late picks though as did FJ.

Not to worry, our drafting messiah is still hanging around to build our next dynasty

 

[tigerfan1961]

Hartley and Toce would be well aware of the talent on offer next year.

Yes, I’m also pretty sure they will be but as I said, if this year is outstandingly strong, why not use our advantage if we do lose the players being discussed. Or should we just let good players be drafted by other clubs and take the punt on next year? I’m all for fully loading up this year if it’s as good as everyone seems to indicate.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

For us he(Higgins) is(a bust). Because he and the bloke we should have picked are playing for other teams. Opportunity cost. Wrong pick. Wrong type. Wrong reasoning. Wrong player. Fail.


The recruiters who picked Taylor et al did better. Caruso at GWS, Taylor at Melbourne, Wells at Geelong, the blokes at Freo, Sydney, Brisbane and the Dogs.


It was very much contemplated. Francis Jackson was pushing for it. Clarke had a hard-on for RCD. Massive fail.

It is obvious our ideas of what constitutes a failed pick are different. To me a player taken at 17 who one clubs trades out for an equivalent pick and the player fully establishes himself as a best 22 player for another club, is in the top 40 forwards in the AFL and looks like playing 200-250 AFL matches is not a failed pick 17. To you it is. Everybody else can make their own minds up.

Of course after the fact we can see Clarke got certain picks wrong(like CCJ over Taylor, Allen, whoever). But every recruiter has these type of results. It does nothing to establish he is being outcompeted by other head recruiters unless you can show a recruiters whole history head to head up against Clarke's with the other recruiter doing better overall over the same period.

Why don't you pick a recruiter, have a crack at it. 2016-2023 broken down into successes/failures with picks 1-10, 11-20, 21-30, 31-40, 41-50 and all lesser value picks combined. Who did better than Clarke overall? If you can't find anyone then saying we are somehow better off without Clarke because he picked RCD or CCJ or whoever is not a supportable statement on the facts.

How do you know Francis Jackson wanted Hill and Clarke did not? And why is Hill a successful pick if he netted GWS about less than pick 40 in value when they had to trade him out but Higgins is a failure for us despite netting us about pick 17 in value when we had to trade him out?

I am skeptical of any view where the person criticising/praising has to obscure a large part of the picture to make their criticism or praise seem valid. We need to view the whole picture and weigh up all the factors without bias to arrive at the value of anything, including recruiters.

Saying Clarke made errors is valid.

Saying he therefore is not a good recruiter does not seem valid to me, because every recruiter makes errors, normally more than Clarke from what I can see(as Noidnadroj showed with Geelong's long history of top 25 picks.)

 

[Stigmata]

Why would we not get pick 3 for baker and Graham

Matt Clarke would jump at that (it allows them to go after tim english as free agent)

 

[prodigy]

Someones suggesting trading Humphrey + Pick(s) for Dan Rioli on the Suns board, thoughts

No surprise that I've seen posters here not being able to see the potential of a player like Bailey Humphrey. It's a shame really. He has huge dynamism. Shades of Dusty when he didn't have the tank at the early stages of his career. Going to end up as a top 20 player in the league.

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

Why would we not get pick 3 for baker and Graham

Matt Clarke would jump at that (it allows them to go after tim english as free agent)

Because that would be overs and it’s highly unlikely West Coast would part with it for those two unless there’s some Matt Clarke shenanigans.

 

[fargothegreat]

Why would we not get pick 3 for baker and Graham

Matt Clarke would jump at that (it allows them to go after tim english as free agent)

Graham is a free agent so why would they trade for him? And getting him in does nothing to stop them also getting English.

 

[richoatthedisco]

No surprise that I've seen posters here not being able to see the potential of a player like Bailey Humphrey. It's a shame really. He has huge dynamism. Shades of Dusty when he didn't have the tank at the early stages of his career. Going to end up as a top 20 player in the league.

Dusty could always get the ball. Humpty gets 10 touches a game.

 

[Morro]

Dusty could always get the ball. Humpty gets 10 touches a game.

and gets dropped, never saw Dusty get dropped.

 

[prodigy]

Dusty could always get the ball. Humpty gets 10 touches a game.

and gets dropped, never saw Dusty get dropped.

I say "shades of Dusty" and you two instantly jump to thinking I'm making direct comparisons.
Players don't progress and develop at the same rate. Plus, last year when Humphrey was played in the middle he was very influential in there. I think he'd be a great option to help facilitate a trade.
A lot to work with and in the right age bracket for our list progression at only 19 years old. 19!

 

[Morro]

I say "shades of Dusty" and you two instantly jump to thinking I'm making direct comparisons.
Players don't progress and develop at the same rate. Plus, last year when Humphrey was played in the middle he was very influential in there. I think he'd be a great option to help facilitate a trade.
A lot to work with and in the right age bracket for our list progression at only 19 years old. 19!

Fair reply, I just think he is seriously overrated. I see more Cam Zurhaar than Dusty.

 

[tiger_tough]

No surprise that I've seen posters here not being able to see the potential of a player like Bailey Humphrey. It's a shame really. He has huge dynamism. Shades of Dusty when he didn't have the tank at the early stages of his career. Going to end up as a top 20 player in the league.

I'm with ya, I think Humphrey will be a gun.

Unfortunately every oppo player is a spud on bigfooty.

 

[Muddiemoose]

Yes, I’m also pretty sure they will be but as I said, if this year is outstandingly strong, why not use our advantage if we do lose the players being discussed. Or should we just let good players be drafted by other clubs and take the punt on next year? I’m all for fully loading up this year if it’s as good as everyone seems to indicate.

I’m far from versed in the pros and cons of particular drafts but from what I have picked up it seems although this year is definitely super strong it’s definitely a midfielders draft
We absolutely need elite mids but it does seem to lack any real elite key position talent and arguably that is what we need the most from a list perspective

Might be that next year is forecast to be more suited for taller targets

 

[tigerfan1961]

Might be that next year is forecast to be more suited for taller targets

Could be right but Blair, Toce and the recruiting team will have a better understanding of what’s available next year, as compared to this one. This could be an opportunity too good to miss. Tigerbob is a huge fan of this draft and he seems to know a fair bit about it, same with richoatthedisco. Others too are highly impressed and full of praise about this years pool of players

 

[Lord of the Wings]

Dusty could always get the ball. Humpty gets 10 touches a game.

So does Dusty now.

 

[Rocco sifreddi]

I'm with ya, I think Humphrey will be a gun.

Unfortunately every oppo player is a spud on bigfooty.

I would take him in a heartbeat

 

[richoatthedisco]

Could be right but Blair, Toce and the recruiting team will have a better understanding of what’s available next year, as compared to this one. This could be an opportunity too good to miss. Tigerbob is a huge fan of this draft and he seems to know a fair bit about it, same with richoatthedisco. Others too are highly impressed and full of praise about this years pool of players

Pfft. Those two are full of shit.

 

[Muddiemoose]

Could be right but Blair, Toce and the recruiting team will have a better understanding of what’s available next year, as compared to this one. This could be an opportunity too good to miss. Tigerbob is a huge fan of this draft and he seems to know a fair bit about it, same with richoatthedisco. Others too are highly impressed and full of praise about this years pool of players

No doubt and it definitely looks like we will be very busy for this upcoming draft but nothing wrong with keeping an eye on next year either

Only a good thing if we can command a strong draft hand across not just one draft but multiple

That’s ultimately the real advantage of the interstate academies
It’s not the individual players per sae it’s the ability of those clubs to have access to elite talent year over year

 

[Tigerbob]

This draft is a great one for multiple first and second round picks. The depth I’ve not seen before. So it is our opportunity to fast track our rebuild.

Problem is I don’t think the club sees our issues as a rebuild. So will believe holding onto players over 27 we can get back to challenging which would be hugely stupid.

People are too hung up on the fact the number one pick isn’t as strong as previous drafts. I couldn’t care less, we will get a gun at one. But what people should focus on is if we can take advantage of getting 4, 5 or even 6 top 25 picks it will be of high caliber.

 

[panatha1908]

From what Tiger71 has been saying, Baker won't leave unless we get fairly compensated. A player that is seen to be a captain and leader of the leaving club bumps him up to at minimum 1 First rounder in the 10 - 17 range.

I am not too sure why the Bolton thing is for compassionate grounds? He signed a long term deal with us. There are three options;
1. He honours his contract with Richmond even after we tried to make a deal happen
2. A proper deal is done that nets Richmond what we are looking for and he moves
3. He breaks his contract and the lawyers and AFL decide on what has to be done.

We have a contract that both parties agreed to. Richmond are happy to keep up their end of the deal, us holding him to the contract is not us looking like dicks, it is us holding our ground. If we can't get a proper deal done then tough shit, quit and let the AFL decide what needs to be done. The price for contracted players goes up significantly as well, a 2 First round player would end up as a 2 - 3 Firsts (bridging the gap between a first rounder with other picks). I think we should get all their first round picks and we pay a portion of Bolton's salary for his contract. We need to keep the cap in shape whilst rebuilding so we don't end up like St kilda (Dunstan) having to overpay mid-foot soldiers Jack Riewoldt money just to hit minimum payments.
But beyond that your picks in the scenario are


No point trading the later ends for picks next year. The picks next year at that range will be useless with the new rules coming in. Need to strike whilst the iron is hot this year and there is a sellers market

At present, the Lions would have to go into deficit if a high bid for Ashcroft comes in. At the moment with the discount they can only bid around pick 8ish. So;

Richmond: Pick 17
Brisbane: Picks 39, 41, 54, 57, 63, 68

This would give them enough picks to match a bid at pick 4 without too much of a draft deficit for the next year.



Getting better in the draft order. Carlton could be worried about both their boys getting through so we could do
Richmond: 15
Carlton: 22, 36

This would give them 2000 points (after the trade and including total picks) which should more than cover off any bidding for the twins.

This means Richmond can take to the draft



This is how the wheeling and dealing should be done. Seven picks in the top 25. Seven, Sept, Siete. That is how you start a rebuild.

This would be the outs of
Retirements: Grimes, Dusty, Naismith, Pickett
Outgoing: Bolton, Baker, Graham

We can delist players as well and look to upgrade a few promising rookies. Lefau and others can get the nod on the real list with our back end chaff picks in the 90s

7 picks in top 25 in an even draft would be a great infusion of youth. Amd that's about it unless balta leaves next year, otherwise we just will have a rd1, rd 2 etc, a much slower rebuild next year and year after, so 7 picks this year, and then 2 next and 2 the year after, so 11 top 25 picks we think in 3 years? We would have to hit every single one of those to start moving back up the ladder.

 

[Maurice Mitchell]

What I can tell you for sure is the following

If Freo want Shai, they are going to have to bend over, and there will be NO LUBE FOR YOU

Don’t want him playing 100+ games for Freo with his kids growing up watching him in purple every week.

He can go home in 4 years.

 

[panatha1908]

As mentioned in the post this morning:

Baker 2024 & 2025 R2 picks from WCE. If he chooses Fremantle then we should be asking for their 3rd R1 pick to go along with 2 R1 picks for Bolton.

Rioli if he goes I'd hope for Suns own R1 pick and pick 20 minimum, but push for their 2 R1 picks.

Graham reports suggest he is getting a deal worth a band 3 pick, which equals pick 22 currently.

Just regarding the Rioli one, story says part of it is his partner who has most work there on the Gold Coast. Plus he fits nicely into their team etc. But what about MRJ? Would they likely head up together, or no because the rioli girl is joining us?