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List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 8
- Thread starter Truetiger
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No point arguing about Bakes return. Richmond will ask for overs and WC will ask for unders. It’s how it works, both clubs will be doing themselves a disservice if they didn’t. It’s more likely than not they find the middle ground and meet in the middle. The extra wrinkle comes in that WC would have to trade in a pick to get to the suitable middle.
Noidnadroj
Norm Smith Medallist
- Dec 8, 2020
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When we are needing elite talent, it’s IMO lunacy to entertain trading out any of our picks inside 50 for players like Tsatas, Phillips etc….
Picks in the 40’s can be bundled for point swaps.
And history tells you that the rookie draft, MSD, PSD, late picks, FA’s etc… there’s a treasure trove of quality players to be attained without costing any draft capital.
If we had the core elite group in place then I’d happily explore trading for some recycled players with upside. But not when we need 2-3 more absolutely elite talents and need as many ‘throws at the stumps’ as we can get.
Let’s not forget where the bulk of our flag era players came from … keeping in mind at the end of 2016 we had 4 x bonafide elite players at the peak of their powers.
Leaving out those we know came from top-60 National draft selections, here are the rest from our 2017/19/20 flags :
Short : Rookie
Prestia: pick 6
Baker: Rookie
Pickett: MSD
Lambert: Rookie
Houli : PSD
Castagna: Rookie
Lynch: FA
Nank: pick 46
Broad (drafted with pick 67)
Grimes : PSD
Caddy : pick 24 (we also swapped 64 for 56 with which we got Jack Graham)
Soldo: Rookie
Grigg : swap with Collins
Butler: (drafted with pick 67)
Townsend: pick 70
So across our three flags, we traded a total of :
Pick 6, pick 46, pick 24 and pick 70
And this was all done AFTER we had the core elite talent needed for a flag tilt.
So why give up decent draft capital for Phillips/Tsatas now? Makes no sense to me when history tells you players of their ilk and better are so easily secured via avenues outside the national draft.
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Picks in the 40’s can be bundled for point swaps.
And history tells you that the rookie draft, MSD, PSD, late picks, FA’s etc… there’s a treasure trove of quality players to be attained without costing any draft capital.
If we had the core elite group in place then I’d happily explore trading for some recycled players with upside. But not when we need 2-3 more absolutely elite talents and need as many ‘throws at the stumps’ as we can get.
Let’s not forget where the bulk of our flag era players came from … keeping in mind at the end of 2016 we had 4 x bonafide elite players at the peak of their powers.
Leaving out those we know came from top-60 National draft selections, here are the rest from our 2017/19/20 flags :
Short : Rookie
Prestia: pick 6
Baker: Rookie
Pickett: MSD
Lambert: Rookie
Houli : PSD
Castagna: Rookie
Lynch: FA
Nank: pick 46
Broad (drafted with pick 67)
Grimes : PSD
Caddy : pick 24 (we also swapped 64 for 56 with which we got Jack Graham)
Soldo: Rookie
Grigg : swap with Collins
Butler: (drafted with pick 67)
Townsend: pick 70
So across our three flags, we traded a total of :
Pick 6, pick 46, pick 24 and pick 70
And this was all done AFTER we had the core elite talent needed for a flag tilt.
So why give up decent draft capital for Phillips/Tsatas now? Makes no sense to me when history tells you players of their ilk and better are so easily secured via avenues outside the national draft.
Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
I'm into getting these younger off-cuts from other clubs if it can be done on the cheap and if the club has identified that theres a player who isnt getting an opportunity that might flourish with us.
To simply rule it out is silly. Carlton essentially got Elijah Hollands by swapping a future 3rd for a future 4th. He is now cemented in their best 18. These are the types of trades (when we identify a worthwhile punt) that we should be doing every now and then.
To simply rule it out is silly. Carlton essentially got Elijah Hollands by swapping a future 3rd for a future 4th. He is now cemented in their best 18. These are the types of trades (when we identify a worthwhile punt) that we should be doing every now and then.
If Baker chooses West Coast they will likely have a suitable pick if they trade out Barrass as they would only trade him if they get overs.
If they don’t, this years second and something in next years draft might be the best we can do as they won’t touch their first pick and neither would we.
However, wouldn’t surprise me if Bakers good mate Jack Graham who has been linked to West Coast got offered more than he should netting us a second round pick.
If this happened, we would have the first three picks of the second round this year in a deep draft. Not the worst result and gives flexibility to move higher up if we wanted to.
Maybe it’s unlikely we’d get that compensation for Graham but GWS got end of second round for a ruckman that couldn’t get a game and has done nothing to prove he is a good afl player last year. Recon Graham would get a bigger offer than that so it shouldn’t be too far off. West Coast have the cash to do it.
If they don’t, this years second and something in next years draft might be the best we can do as they won’t touch their first pick and neither would we.
However, wouldn’t surprise me if Bakers good mate Jack Graham who has been linked to West Coast got offered more than he should netting us a second round pick.
If this happened, we would have the first three picks of the second round this year in a deep draft. Not the worst result and gives flexibility to move higher up if we wanted to.
Maybe it’s unlikely we’d get that compensation for Graham but GWS got end of second round for a ruckman that couldn’t get a game and has done nothing to prove he is a good afl player last year. Recon Graham would get a bigger offer than that so it shouldn’t be too far off. West Coast have the cash to do it.
Muddiemoose
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- Aug 24, 2017
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If eagles don’t want to use one of this years picks for Baker I wouldn’t be against just rolling the dice for a future first
We can go on to trade it to get back into this years 1st round for another pick or see how it plays out and use the pick next year
We can go on to trade it to get back into this years 1st round for another pick or see how it plays out and use the pick next year
Morro
Brownlow Medallist
This wouldnt surpise me at all.
Its a win win scenario and they have the cap space to play these kind of games.
If we could turn baker and Graham into 3 picks in the 20's, its not business. The trade potion of these picks would be excellent also.
Karp3_dm
Brownlow Medallist
- Jun 29, 2018
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Eagles future 1st for Baker?? lol no chance Eagles offer that
Rolling the dice? Have you see their list?
Bottom 2 next year without a doubt
But god almighty hope they offer that for bakes
Carlton got Hollands cheap because he had a drug problem. Way more talented than Phillips or Tsatas.
A future first will be top-10 at worst, probs top-5. It won't be on the table.
If Bakes goes to West Coast, unless they trade out Barrass it feels the best we'll do is this year's and next year's second, with the possibility as mentioned of them paying Graham enough to get us R2 compo.
With the first three picks of R2 we could turn one of them into a future first, giving us two firsts and two seconds next year. That would still allow us to target one of GC's firsts and Brisbane's first, without losing Rioli. Go to the draft with something like 1, 9, 16, 23, 39.
One probable reason Phillips has looked so bad is he has not been able to get himself right after two bouts of glandular fever.
So of course you are not just looking at what he has done so far and wanting him on your list. You wouldn't even take him as a delisted free agent if you believed that what he has produced to this point reflects his likely future value. The only reason you would be interested in him is if you believed there was a realistic chance of him overcoming his energy issues and being able to train hard enough to build an AFL tank.
His footy in 2023 was not brilliant for a 3 pick but it was certainly not bad either. For example he played better in his 3rd season than Davies-Uniacke did in his 3rd season, in a similar role, similar level team. He also outperformed Jye Simpkin's 3rd season. He was just a bit behind Darcy Parish's 3rd season. Taylor Adams is another one. Plenty of strong mids had 3rd seasons well above Phillips as well, but the point is he played at a higher or similar level to the best season produced by plenty of decent AFL mids early in their careers.
For some reason in 2024 he has regressed unexpectedly. But the reports on the North board say he just doesn't have the recovery to get from contest to contest, which is exactly what he needs to do.
So it is a punt. In a straight swap, the pick now at 39 would be a fair price to pay. Whether North would go for that I am not sure. If it is true they are after McIntosh as a free agent then the two clubs might be able to scratch each others backs a bit. Richmond will obviously be in receipt of medical advice etc about the likelihood of Phillips regaining full energy at any time soon, but if they deem he is a worthwhile risk then it is worth handing something over to get him.
Muddiemoose
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If he keeps getting glandular fever it could be a good sign if we can get him to 100 games
Will be a guarantee for multiple father sons
Why?
Muddiemoose
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Just a joke because it has also been know as the “kissing disease” because of how its spread via salvia
- Mar 1, 2010
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Hollands would have been rated higher and regardless Tstats is under contract and surely will not let him go on terms like GC
All this talk about trading fringe players from other teams is concerning. I don't care what pick these players went in their draft, we need to keep our picks use those picks to move up the order and draft our own kids.
Hopefully all these rumours are just from other clubs trying to suck us into getting rid of all our late picks for draft capital.
Hopefully all these rumours are just from other clubs trying to suck us into getting rid of all our late picks for draft capital.
prodigy
I'm a Sonsie Guy
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With someone like Will Phillips, you can't just look at exposed form in their AFL career when assessing trade viability.
There would have been many reasons as to why he was taken at pick 3 by North. I understand their recruiting team around that time resembled a bag of potatoes but I refuse to believe that they willingly threw away a pick 3 at someone who was bad.
It's so easy just to say "oh he is crap, shown nothing at AFL level". Sometimes all it takes is a change of scenery or approach to extract the best out of someone.
If we were legitimately interested, I'd back the club in.
You can't just disregard these types of players IMO.
There would have been many reasons as to why he was taken at pick 3 by North. I understand their recruiting team around that time resembled a bag of potatoes but I refuse to believe that they willingly threw away a pick 3 at someone who was bad.
It's so easy just to say "oh he is crap, shown nothing at AFL level". Sometimes all it takes is a change of scenery or approach to extract the best out of someone.
If we were legitimately interested, I'd back the club in.
You can't just disregard these types of players IMO.
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North are looking to offload Phillips because they prefer the draft and other youngsters in and coming in as a indication, I think that much is obvious.
Been a number of years in the system, had opportunity being at North and they are looking to let him go, Only a value play really surely, if he can resurrect it thumbs up to him
- Mar 1, 2010
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you can disregard until they bang on the door and then have a look.
A receiver is better than a chaser unless a fine specimen comes along commanding chasing like a H Reid
I can't believe some of us are getting sucked into it. If we want Phillips then let North delist him and when the time is right pick him up for free. Personally, I wouldn't even bother to do that, we are a long way from our window to start trading in fringe players in the hope they turn good.
North wants one of our late picks so they can bunch them together and swap with a 1st rounder, this should be our priority as we already have those picks in the bank.
I think we need some more youth and fringe doesn't always mean bad, look how well we did with Grigg and Houli for example (I know this was a long time ago). If after trading players for more first round picks (Rioli, Baker for example) plus bundling later picks for more first rounders (eg to Brisbane), we still have some later picks left over, why not see about trading them for some fringe youth that was highly regarded?
Phillips may only be fringe because North already has an abundance of midfielders picked in the top 10, and as another poster mentioned, he has not had a clear run at things yet. For a pick in the 30s it's probably a good get.
We have half a dozen picks to draft youth. Trading our later picks is a stupid idea, bunch our picks first get into the first round then if pick 63 or whatever is left then offer Noth that pick for one of their fringe players. Not the other way round.
Yep, gotta go hard at this draft, seems it’s quality
only for picks in the 30s
Wouldn't even do that, we need those picks to get into the 1st round
Yeah I'm not necessarily saying that Tsatas and Phillips are the ones we should be going after, more just an observation that some folk on here seem to think it's either chase a top 10 player in the league or an upcoming one (Harley Reid for example), or no one at all.
Whether Hollands had a drug problem or not, it annoys me that other teams seem to do really favourable deals for themselves where as we never really seem to.
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