List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency Part 9

[_RT_]

 

[Danog]

Wonder if Gold Coast will still take Dusty?

 

[tiger_tough]

So if Bolton, Rioli, Baker, Grimes, Graham and Martin all go, I'd guess that's about $5mill of cap space freed up next year

We're going to struggle to meet the 95% minimum cap spend. I reckon we'll pay a chunk of Riolis and Boltons contracts and receive higher picks off GC and Freo in return. We'd be silly not to.

 

[Pomsta]

I went to the 2017 draft because I know it has good depth.

At 6-22 the best 6(right now) were probably:

Naughton 9
D Fogarty
Bailey 15
Richards 16
Powell 19
Allen 21

But then even looking at the next 17 picked, 23-39 in that draft

Tim Kelly 24
Balta 25
Brent Daniels 27
Sam Taylor 28
T DeKoning 30
T McCartin 33

If you take six picks and get any 3 off either of those lists, you are probably doing as well as Bolton, Rioli, Baker, Graham.

So what you are saying that there were 11 worse players than Powell and Fogarty between 6&22? I wouldn't be happy with either of those which means the strike rate is is less than 25%. Let's just keep Bolton instead.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

So what you are saying that there were 11 worse players than Powell and Fogarty between 6&22? I wouldn't be happy with either of those which means the strike rate is is less than 25%. Let's just keep Bolton instead.

Players of some note I didn't mention:

Stephenson(Rising Star) 6
Hunter Clark 7
Higgins 17
Starcevich 18
Liam Ryan 26
Spargo(flag player) 29
Barely Avfritsch 31
Harry Petty 36
Nathan Murphy(flag player) 39

Powell and Fogarty are good players.

So you have 21 players of some sort of level of the 35 drafted between 6 & 40 in the 2017 NAB AFL draft.

If you had 6 picks and didn't get at least 3 good players including gun you would spew.

 

[fargothegreat]

Because it takes out the need to put a bid for Graham and it allows them to focus on the English bid.

Sorry, but that makes no sense. If they want both they'll get both as free agents.

 

[YeOldTiger]

Reading some of media and and Bigfooty about major talent leaving.
Just don't think it is a lot of damage to us.
If it was Bolton, Rioli, Graeme, there are still plenty of experienced premiership players on our list. if they net us 5 picks in the top 25. It is so worth it
Even if Baker went
Leadership to teach and help us go forward.
Nank, Vaustin, Prestia, Lynch, Broady, Mactosh, short, Hopper, Taranto.
Nine players premiership players that will have leadership, teachings with the players we already have, Brown, cambell, banks, ralphsmith, Mckaulf, steely, Ryan, Miller etc
I think Prestia is a must keep for his knowledge train with gun midfielders.
Add 6 high end players this year we will be okay.
TALK OF NORTHMELB, HAWTHORN, its not the same..
we are still in a better position than above

Think about this. If you lose Baker, Bolton and Rioli and now Dusty out of this current Richmond team, with the exception of Lynch, who is uncertain at best, there isn't a single matchwinner left on our list. Not one.

We will be looking at a potential generation in the doldrums with a bunch of good but completely vanilla players.

So who is going to step up in the big moments, take the game by the scruff of the neck and win a huge match.

Nobody.

As I keep saying, be careful what you wish for. I'd be holding on to the three B's for dear life because they are A grade talent in their mid 20s with the exception of Rioli who still has 3-5 good years in him. If they ask to go then fine, but I wouldn't be pushing them out the door for a bunch of untried kids.

 

[SplintWhisky]

So if Bolton, Rioli, Baker, Grimes, Graham and Martin all go, I'd guess that's about $5mill of cap space freed up next year

We're going to struggle to meet the 95% minimum cap spend. I reckon we'll pay a chunk of Riolis and Boltons contracts and receive higher picks off GC and Freo in return. We'd be silly not to.

100% this. We need to keep the cap in a shape that we still have a meritocracy for high salaries. That is what has screwed St Kilda from about 2013 to 2021. They had to hit the 95% and they had to do that by paying spuds like Dunstan, Ross and others huge money. The only way they were able to attract other mediocre talent to the club was for them to overpay because that was the norm.

 

[TiggerMan22]

This draft is a great one for multiple first and second round picks. The depth I’ve not seen before. So it is our opportunity to fast track our rebuild.

Problem is I don’t think the club sees our issues as a rebuild. So will believe holding onto players over 27 we can get back to challenging which would be hugely stupid.

People are too hung up on the fact the number one pick isn’t as strong as previous drafts. I couldn’t care less, we will get a gun at one. But what people should focus on is if we can take advantage of getting 4, 5 or even 6 top 25 picks it will be of high caliber.

It's hugely stupid to think that the only thing you make list decisions by is who will be there next time you challenge. You don't keep them because you think they will be there for the next flag. You keep them for leadership, training standards, culture, passing down knowledge, to protect the younger players from being exposed to early from a physical standout and role expectation.

Take Grimes for example. His on field performances have not been great for the past year or two and he won't be there for our next flag, but the knowledge he can pass down to those young KPD in invaluable. We need guys like him passing down this knwoledge before moving on.

Just think how it actually plays out on field. Trainers can run messages but that is slow feedback and not something that can reach the entire team quickly. Having the older guys out there even to just keep the structure, to tell the younger guys where to go, feedback when they **** up, what they should be looking out for is 100% necessary for development.

A lot of people think the best way forward is to just play as many young players as possible because more games = better development, right? Like all that matters for development is the minutes you play on the field and our only focus should be maxing those numbers out.

 

[TiggerMan22]

7 picks in top 25 in an even draft would be a great infusion of youth. Amd that's about it unless balta leaves next year, otherwise we just will have a rd1, rd 2 etc, a much slower rebuild next year and year after, so 7 picks this year, and then 2 next and 2 the year after, so 11 top 25 picks we think in 3 years? We would have to hit every single one of those to start moving back up the ladder.

I highly highly doubt we take 7 picks in the top 25 even if we had the chance. Development wise there's only so many spots in the team, even with our retirements/trades, it opens you up to good chances that some of them don't get the opportunities they want and start looking to move. That would also put them on the same contract timeline which makes it tricker to sign them all.

Other than expansion teams coming in, when was the last time a team took 7 picks in the national draft alone?
We would absolutely be trading some of those for future picks and we can target desperate teams that need it this year / teams that we think overrate themselves to get a higher pick too.

 

[TiggerMan22]

That’s horrendous and you think that’s competence. Holy Christ. Clarke was also driving the bus when we picked Ellis the silky butterfly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's only horrendous if you look at it expecting an incredibly high strike rate. Which team has drafted the best in that timeline and what does their picks look like? When you don't follow other teams, you never see or hear about most their failed picks as they don't make any impact.

 

[SplintWhisky]

It's hugely stupid to think that the only thing you make list decisions by is who will be there next time you challenge. You don't keep them because you think they will be there for the next flag. You keep them for leadership, training standards, culture, passing down knowledge, to protect the younger players from being exposed to early from a physical standout and role expectation.

Take Grimes for example. His on field performances have not been great for the past year or two and he won't be there for our next flag, but the knowledge he can pass down to those young KPD in invaluable. We need guys like him passing down this knwoledge before moving on.

Just think how it actually plays out on field. Trainers can run messages but that is slow feedback and not something that can reach the entire team quickly. Having the older guys out there even to just keep the structure, to tell the younger guys where to go, feedback when they **** up, what they should be looking out for is 100% necessary for development.

A lot of people think the best way forward is to just play as many young players as possible because more games = better development, right? Like all that matters for development is the minutes you play on the field and our only focus should be maxing those numbers out.

The over 27 year old players are now literally picked for experience and leadership as their qualities over playing ability. If we could find a cheap "Luke Hodge at Brisbane" type deal I think we should jump on it. Set the standards right from day 1 and bring the glut of 2021 and 2024 picks up together.

 

[richoatthedisco]

The over 27 year old players are now literally picked for experience and leadership as their qualities over playing ability. If we could find a cheap "Luke Hodge at Brisbane" type deal I think we should jump on it. Set the standards right from day 1 and bring the glut of 2021 and 2024 picks up together.

We don't need to find them, we have them.

 

[tigs2010]

It's hugely stupid to think that the only thing you make list decisions by is who will be there next time you challenge. You don't keep them because you think they will be there for the next flag. You keep them for leadership, training standards, culture, passing down knowledge, to protect the younger players from being exposed to early from a physical standout and role expectation.

Take Grimes for example. His on field performances have not been great for the past year or two and he won't be there for our next flag, but the knowledge he can pass down to those young KPD in invaluable. We need guys like him passing down this knwoledge before moving on.

Just think how it actually plays out on field. Trainers can run messages but that is slow feedback and not something that can reach the entire team quickly. Having the older guys out there even to just keep the structure, to tell the younger guys where to go, feedback when they **** up, what they should be looking out for is 100% necessary for development.

A lot of people think the best way forward is to just play as many young players as possible because more games = better development, right? Like all that matters for development is the minutes you play on the field and our only focus should be maxing those numbers out.

We should still have from my last count 17 experienced players (assuming Grimes retires) and a few more should hit 50 games next year and few like Young/Lefau/Blight who have mature bodies.

Vlastuin, Prestia, Ross, Taranto, Short, Lynch, Kozi, Balta, Hopper, Nankervis, McIntosh, Broad, Miller, Pickett, Mansell, Ralphsmith & Rioli Jr will all have 50 games under their belt by next season, 9 of whom have premierships under their belt, 9 more than a lot of teams have. Plus Young, Lefau, Blight and maybe even Dow (not sure what happens with Dow).

On top of that you've got the 5 guys from 2021 draft will all be entering their 4th season.

Then we've got a few others like Smith, Green & Campbell, the latter 2 who have basically established themselves as best 22 already.

It's not like we are going to take 7 or 8 picks and throw them all into the team and say all the best.

We will be completely fine if these guys all choose to bail (especially if a few of the 2021 can take a leap next season).

 

[Dr Tigris]

We should still have from my last count 17 experienced players (assuming Grimes retires) and a few more should hit 50 games next year and few like Young/Lefau/Blight who have mature bodies.

Vlastuin, Prestia, Ross, Taranto, Short, Lynch, Kozi, Balta, Hopper, Nankervis, McIntosh, Broad, Miller, Pickett, Mansell, Ralphsmith & Rioli Jr will all have 50 games under their belt by next season, 9 of whom have premierships under their belt, 9 more than a lot of teams have. Plus Young, Lefau, Blight and maybe even Dow (not sure what happens with Dow).

On top of that you've got the 5 guys from 2021 draft will all be entering their 4th season.

Then we've got a few others like Smith, Green & Campbell, the latter 2 who have basically established themselves as best 22 already.

It's not like we are going to take 7 or 8 picks and throw them all into the team and say all the best.

We will be completely fine if these guys all choose to bail (especially if a few of the 2021 can take a leap next season).

Totally agree.

As long as they can stay on the park

 

[tigs2010]

Totally agree.

As long as they can stay on the park

View attachment 2070351

Won't be a problem...

 

[Michaels]

the latest from last nights show:

-I had another source confirm the Bolton news, and that it's only been very recent with his change of mind.
-Daniel Rioli

17

Daniel Rioli

Age

27

Ht

179cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.2

3star

K

5.8

2star

HB

5.4

4star

M

2.7

3star

T

3.2

5star

MG

179.2

3star

D

8.1

2star

K

4.9

2star

HB

3.3

2star

M

2.0

2star

T

2.6

4star

MG

144.9

3star

D

9.0

3star

K

3.8

2star

HB

5.2

4star

M

0.8

1star

T

3.8

5star

MG

160.2

3star

to Suns the interest is definitely real, from both sides. Personally I think we will dig in a bit more on this one.
- Tiger71 is still adamant that Baker is not going anywhere, he has been unwavering on this since day 1. and that we should know more in the coming weeks but is fully expecting him to extend with us. Interestingly post the show last night another person in AFL circles said they had heard the same as Tigs.

-Grock mentioned he had heard that Yze is keen to have a chat with Clayton Oliver

13

Clayton Oliver

Age

27

Ht

189cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.8

5star

K

9.5

4star

HB

18.4

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

6.3

5star

CL

6.3

5star

D

25.1

5star

K

11.1

4star

HB

14.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

5.6

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

19.2

5star

K

4.6

2star

HB

14.6

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

4.4

5star

CL

3.8

5star

. Obviously a lot has to be worked through and ticked off there before anything goes any further than a chat. but footy wise its a interesting prospect.

Tigs also heard murmurs regarding Oliver too, as in we may look to speak to him.

 

[tigs2010]

the latest from last nights show:

-I had another source confirm the Bolton news, and that it's only been very recent with his change of mind.
-Daniel Rioli to Suns the interest is definitely real, from both sides. Personally I think we will dig in a bit more on this one.
- Tiger71 is still adamant that Baker is not going anywhere, he has been unwavering on this since day 1. and that we should know more in the coming weeks but is fully expecting him to extend with us. Interestingly post the show last night another person in AFL circles said they had heard the same as Tigs.

-Grock mentioned he had heard that Yze is keen to have a chat with Clayton Oliver. Obviously a lot has to be worked through and ticked off there before anything goes any further than a chat. but footy wise its a interesting prospect.

Tigs also heard murmurs regarding Oliver too, as in we may look to speak to him.

Baker would be the best one to hold on to with his value being less being uncontracted.

I think I'd give up on the Yze regime if he brought in Oliver. What a desperate move. Another slowish inside mid lol

 

[Michaels]

Baker would be the best one to hold on to with his value being less being uncontracted.

I think I'd give up on the Yze regime if he brought in Oliver. What a desperate move. Another slowish inside mid lol

Agree Baker is the one I'd like to keep.

On Oliver, he definitely isn't slow, not compared to what we have anyway!

My only thought on this was maybe he had a different relationship with Yze than he does with Goodwin in some capacity.

It would certainly divide people though.

 

[TigerTime88]

the latest from last nights show:

-I had another source confirm the Bolton news, and that it's only been very recent with his change of mind.
-Daniel Rioli to Suns the interest is definitely real, from both sides. Personally I think we will dig in a bit more on this one.
- Tiger71 is still adamant that Baker is not going anywhere, he has been unwavering on this since day 1. and that we should know more in the coming weeks but is fully expecting him to extend with us. Interestingly post the show last night another person in AFL circles said they had heard the same as Tigs.

-Grock mentioned he had heard that Yze is keen to have a chat with Clayton Oliver. Obviously a lot has to be worked through and ticked off there before anything goes any further than a chat. but footy wise its a interesting prospect.

Tigs also heard murmurs regarding Oliver too, as in we may look to speak to him.

If we brought Oliver in I would throw up. The only way I would take that contract on would be 2 x First Round picks from Melbourne.

 

[Michaels]

If we brought Oliver in I would throw up. The only way I would take that contract on would be 2 x First Round picks from Melbourne.

I think Melbourne would be covering a large chunk of the contract, it's no secret its been a bit messy between the two for a while now I guess.

 

[Ctl]

the latest from last nights show:

-I had another source confirm the Bolton news, and that it's only been very recent with his change of mind.
-Daniel Rioli to Suns the interest is definitely real, from both sides. Personally I think we will dig in a bit more on this one.
- Tiger71 is still adamant that Baker is not going anywhere, he has been unwavering on this since day 1. and that we should know more in the coming weeks but is fully expecting him to extend with us. Interestingly post the show last night another person in AFL circles said they had heard the same as Tigs.

-Grock mentioned he had heard that Yze is keen to have a chat with Clayton Oliver. Obviously a lot has to be worked through and ticked off there before anything goes any further than a chat. but footy wise its a interesting prospect.

Tigs also heard murmurs regarding Oliver too, as in we may look to speak to him.

I'd be interested in Oliver and think he'll return to being a great player, too much is made of the off-field stuff imo 50% of the afl uses cocaine. Also given how big his contract is he won't cost a lot of draft capital and we will have plenty of cap room spare, front load Balta, Taranto, Hopper and bring money forward on Vlastuin and Short and we'll still have plenty spare for oliver.

The issue is he is another butcher of the ball and our midfield is full of those guys, Taranto, Prestia, Hopper, Ross and Oliver is just a horrible midfield mix. No speed, no damage.

 

[Morro]

Baker would be the best one to hold on to with his value being less being uncontracted.

I think I'd give up on the Yze regime if he brought in Oliver. What a desperate move. Another slowish inside mid lol

Oliver for a pick in the 20's is worth the risk IMO. but not for a 1st rounder.

He is much more explosive from the contest than our 2 inside mids. If it did happen I would be telling TT to get used to playing forward 70/30

 

[Michaels]

I'd be interested in Oliver and think he'll return to being a great player, too much is made of the off-field stuff imo 50% of the afl uses cocaine. Also given how big his contract is he won't cost a lot of draft capital and we will have plenty of cap room spare, front load Balta, Taranto, Hopper and bring money forward on Vlastuin and Short and we'll still have plenty spare for oliver.

The issue is he is another butcher of the ball and our midfield is full of those guys, Taranto, Prestia, Hopper, Ross and Oliver is just a horrible midfield mix. No speed, no damage.

We definitely need a precise kick in the midfield ASAP don't we!

 

[Michaels]

Oliver for a pick in the 20's is worth the risk IMO. but not for a 1st rounder.

He is much more explosive from the contest than our 2 inside mids. If it did happen I would be telling TT to get used to playing forward 70/30

I'm sitting here too, and if we are feeling the Dees want to offload him, maybe we can make that work, if it were to eventuate.

 

[Ctl]

We definitely need a precise kick in the midfield ASAP don't we!

Caleb Daniel anyone? But in all seriousness kicking has to be one of the non-negotiables when evaluating guys as we head into the draft