List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 4

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Meteoric Rise said:
Phar Ace

Off topic I know, but interesting enough for us all to comment on here. These stories are awful. These two, Greening and Boyle are two examples of where an illegal incident completely destroyed the player’s very promising career. From what I can gather the Neale strike on Boyle was pretty clear, a gratuitous coathanger after the ball had left the area. By a huge man mid career on an 18yo in his 6th game. It is unforgivable really.

The O’Dea strike on Greening is murkier, as nobody witnessed it. It seems to have involved more than the ordinary amount of guilt you attach to these incidents because O’Dea to my knowledge has never publicly explained what he did, how he did it, or why he did it. If he’d just king hit Greening behind play there would more likely have been facial injuries, and O’Dea may have eventually come out and admitted to it. What seems to have occurred is something even more sinister than that, where O’Dea, a policeman, has applied some pre-planned technique to Greening’s neck causing massive life threatening and coma inducing injuries, and some permanent brain damage. Perhaps think of the Phillip Hughes incident, but probably deliberately administered. Thankfully not quite as devastating. He got 10 weeks for it, so it was taken seriously, but it would be interesting to know what penalty he’d have received had the entire truth been known.

So many other dangerous strikes took place where the player was able to play on in their career. But every hit you get like this robs you of confidence, or focus, or can by degrees damage your brain. I am not one who thinks all hits to the head are wrong, but if they are unprovoked and seriously dangerous they are. Sometimes you get sick of a player belting you and just decide to give him a taste of his own medicine, in that case I think fair enough, if it proportionate etc.

It is funny about St Kilda at that time. One of their players in that era was Stuart Trott, who apparently was a tough guy, trained boxer, but to my knowledge, always a fair ball player. He was addressing our junior team once as part of the zone program St Kilda had, and I made a smart remark about knocking opposition players out as if it was funny. He looked at me and said something like: "if you think that is funny or tough you are as weak as piss. Tough players make the ball their object, not the man.” You can bet those thoughts always stayed with me, and I felt embarrassed I had made such foolish remarks. So it wasn’t as if all Alan Jeans’ players were thugs or that he routinely incited these thuggish acts.

It would be good to know how these shocking Neale and O’Dea incidents unfolded though, and who played what part in them.
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It was pretty wide spread yea they were dead set thugs , Peter Hudson copped it playing them too but we had a few too. I cringe when I see those hits replayed
 
Bojangles17 said:
It was pretty wide spread yea they were dead set thugs , Peter Hudson copped it playing them too but we had a few too. I cringe when I see those hits replayed
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I wouldn’t be so critical of the players as being thugs, You must remember these players were instructed by the coaches to deal out harsh treatment. I can remember playing football in the 70s and early 80s and we were instructed as Backman,if you couldn’t reach the ball to hit the forward in the back of the head.It was a standard practice. Also gut punches were considered a normal way of tackling.
 
sregit said:
I wouldn’t be so critical of the players as being thugs, You must remember these players were instructed by the coaches to deal out harsh treatment. I can remember playing football in the 70s and early 80s and we were instructed as Backman,if you couldn’t reach the ball to hit the forward in the back of the head.It was a standard practice. Also gut punches were considered a normal way of tackling.
Click to expand...
In play is not as bad as king hits behind play , inexcusable
 
Meteoric Rise said:
Phar Ace

Off topic I know, but interesting enough for us all to comment on here. These stories are awful. These two, Greening and Boyle are two examples of where an illegal incident completely destroyed the player’s very promising career. From what I can gather the Neale strike on Boyle was pretty clear, a gratuitous coathanger after the ball had left the area. By a huge man mid career on an 18yo in his 6th game. It is unforgivable really.

The O’Dea strike on Greening is murkier, as nobody witnessed it. It seems to have involved more than the ordinary amount of guilt you attach to these incidents because O’Dea to my knowledge has never publicly explained what he did, how he did it, or why he did it. If he’d just king hit Greening behind play there would more likely have been facial injuries, and O’Dea may have eventually come out and admitted to it. What seems to have occurred is something even more sinister than that, where O’Dea, a policeman, has applied some pre-planned technique to Greening’s neck causing massive life threatening and coma inducing injuries, and some permanent brain damage. Perhaps think of the Phillip Hughes incident, but probably deliberately administered. Thankfully not quite as devastating. He got 10 weeks for it, so it was taken seriously, but it would be interesting to know what penalty he’d have received had the entire truth been known.

So many other dangerous strikes took place where the player was able to play on in their career. But every hit you get like this robs you of confidence, or focus, or can by degrees damage your brain. I am not one who thinks all hits to the head are wrong, but if they are unprovoked and seriously dangerous they are. Sometimes you get sick of a player belting you and just decide to give him a taste of his own medicine, in that case I think fair enough, if it proportionate etc.

It is funny about St Kilda at that time. One of their players in that era was Stuart Trott, who apparently was a tough guy, trained boxer, but to my knowledge, always a fair ball player. He was addressing our junior team once as part of the zone program St Kilda had, and I made a smart remark about knocking opposition players out as if it was funny. He looked at me and said something like: "if you think that is funny or tough you are as weak as piss. Tough players make the ball their object, not the man.” You can bet those thoughts always stayed with me, and I felt embarrassed I had made such foolish remarks. So it wasn’t as if all Alan Jeans’ players were thugs or that he routinely incited these thuggish acts.

It would be good to know how these shocking Neale and O’Dea incidents unfolded though, and who played what part in them.
Click to expand...

Really good post mate!

As an aside, was fortunate to receive a pre-game address from Alan Jeans when playing finals at Cheltenham in my early 30's. I recall whispering to the guy next to me "...and to think this bloke coaches AFL" as Jeansy was gently going through his 'mates and memories' mantra. Little did I know he was building a call to arms where you would do anything for this day to be about those mates and memories. Within three or so minutes all 20 of us would have got out of those club rooms whether there was a door or not - never felt so fired up before a game - never so self sacrificing.

So while I agree with what you said above about Alan Jeans' players, he had the capacity to make monsters of mere men.

Have watched Terry Wallace too, so utterly different.
 
prodigy said:
Yeo is like a match made in heaven for Richmond.
28 years old next Friday and if he can get his body right still has a solid few years left.
Cap space is clearly the biggest issue here and whether or not we are willing to jeopardise our draft hand this year.

I'd love Yeo and wouldn't be mad if we went hard for him, but im leaning toward just going to the draft, but happy either way.
*if the rumour is true that he wants out
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With you there mate! Yeo would work well in our midfield - we need some better size in our mix!
 
prodigy said:
Yeo is like a match made in heaven for Richmond.
28 years old next Friday and if he can get his body right still has a solid few years left.
Cap space is clearly the biggest issue here and whether or not we are willing to jeopardise our draft hand this year.

I'd love Yeo and wouldn't be mad if we went hard for him, but im leaning toward just going to the draft, but happy either way.
*if the rumour is true that he wants out
Click to expand...
Yeo has been a good player but he has Daniel Wells written all over him. Stick to the plan, go to the draft and let Essendon or the Eagles pay Yeo his $800k for 8 powerless games a year. He would need a massive come back of Jake Stringer proportions and half his salary paid for the remaining three years to be worth it.
 
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Bojangles17 said:
In play is not as bad as king hits behind play , inexcusable
Click to expand...

And that is what I am referring to when I say striking on the field should be treated akin to murder in the street. Gave as much as I got in play - you crossed the line and you knew what you might get!

Interesting how the coaches and player groups balance this like they are on a trapeze these days - supported and admonished in the one breathe often now. A draftee being hard at it either a boon or a curse now.
 

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What’s the knock on Will Brodie?


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LuKe2428 said:
Pies need points for Daicos.
28 + 44 for Pies future second 20-24)?
26 + 40 + Chol Compo for Dogs first (17)
Draft with 7, 15, 17, (CCJ’s pick)
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The Dogs trade works, but I'd ask for a future 3rd back, given their Pick 17/18 will likely end up as Pick 19/20 we'd be giving 2 x 3rd rounders for only an 8 pick upgrade. This way the Dogs are using a 1st and future 3rd for Darcy rather than their 1st in both 2021 & 2022, so it's still a win for them
I'd also only offer 28 for the Pies 2nd next year as there's every chance they could finish mid-table under a new coach and then we end up with a similar pick. They are the ones that need points so a 2nd rounder for a 2nd rounder seems about right to me
 
If anyone needs some comic relief I highly recommend the Carlton board…..a couple of real rib ticklers…:

1. Rumours Dow may want to go to Tigers and apparently he’s worth nothing less than pick-20.

2. Very, very happy with the Hewett selection and suggestions he’s on the cusp of becoming elite.

There’s more gold over there…. just a treasure trove of delusion.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
 
Infamy said:
The Dogs trade works, but I'd ask for a future 3rd back, given their Pick 17/18 will likely end up as Pick 19/20 we'd be giving 2 x 3rd rounders for only an 8 pick upgrade. This way the Dogs are using a 1st and future 3rd for Darcy rather than their 1st in both 2021 & 2022, so it's still a win for them
I'd also only offer 28 for the Pies 2nd next year as there's every chance they could finish mid-table under a new coach and then we end up with a similar pick. They are the ones that need points so a 2nd rounder for a 2nd rounder seems about right to me
Click to expand...

Why help the Pies out when we need talent coming in this year? Furthermore, why would Pies not rise up the ladder significantly in 2022?

I have no idea why we would want to chase 2022 seconds?
 
TheGhostOfMaurice said:
What’s the knock on Will Brodie?


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Click to expand...

Just been thinking about these type of guys. The players who don’t look quick enough to play other positions, so it is inside mid or nothing.

It seems to me now around age 24yo some of these guys can turn a corner. So Matthew Kennedy and Fiorini are two who seemed to me to do that in 2021. I think for Jaryd Lyons it was similar, around that age of 24.

So there is a chance Brodie, who like those above is a pretty slow inside mid, will turn a corner in the next 12 months or so. If you liked him, this might be a good time to get him.

The thing is though, how many of these type of mids end up in Premiership teams these days? In the Lions final where the Dogs eliminated them, Lyons was moved out of the midfield in the final term, and it was only after that they came back and almost won.

In summary I would say some players become competitive as AFL midfielders around 24yo. But of the ones who take right up until they are 24 to get competitive, probably not many of those will win you a flag.

I still think no on Brodie, but with a little less certainty than I had earlier in the season. I don’t think Richmond will recruit any of these type of players at this time.
 
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Meteoric Rise said:
Just been thinking about these type of guys. The players who don’t look quick enough to play other positions, so it is inside mid or nothing.

It seems to me now around age 24yo some of these guys can turn a corner. So Matthew Kennedy and Fiorini are two who seemed to me to do that in 2021. I think for Jaryd Lyons it was similar, around that age of 24.

So there is a chance Brodie, who like those above is a pretty slow inside mid, will turn a corner in the next 12 months or so. If you liked him, this might be a good time to get him.

The thing is though, how many of these type of mids end up in Premiership teams these days? In the Lions final where the Dogs eliminated them, Lyons was moved out of the midfield in the final term, and it was only after that they came back and almost won.

In summary I would say some players become competitive as AFL midfielders around 24yo. But of the ones who take right up until they are 24 to get competitive, probably not many of those will win you a flag.

I still think no on Brodie, but with a little less certainty than I had earlier in the season. I don’t think Richmond will recruit any of these type of players at this time.
Click to expand...

I would not misread Kennedy too much.

Kennedy had a few injury issues, then he was getting his fitness up. I heard he is housemates with Walsh in the media so that would help. He got more opportunity to. The other thing is Kennedy while at GWS would not get much of a look in either due to their list strength

Its a case by case situation as every players situation is different and I would not look for a general trend necessarily.

If the player is a absolute gun usually its the Bailey Smith route and the Walsh scenario is freakish in terms of hitting the ground running from the get go


I was reading the GWS board list management board for something different. Some where talking about trading their pick 13 for a future first. That would interest me on paper. RFC's first in 2022 for pick 13 this year if we thought we where going to race back up the ladder. Could help us get better picks or with other trade situations.

Not sure pick 4 is available either for a trade, Adelaide might have a player in mind around the mark. Gold Coast's pick 3 maybe it just depends what they want for it and who they are chasing I guess
 
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West Coast will try to low ball Carlton in a deal for outgoing Blue Sam Petrevski-Seton, who has already been declared a contender for recruit of the year next season.

The playmaker was frustrated by his lack of opportunities through the midfield at Calton has an eye on a wing-half forward role at West Coast in 2022.

The Eagles have a high opinion of the Halls Creek product and in particular how he can fit in with the team’s kicking game style.

But the Blues aren’t going to receive a high pick in return for a man who former Carlton list boss Stephen Silvagni nabbed originally nabbed with pick No. 6.

West Coast has selections N0. 10. No. 29 and No. 35 but will likely offer pick No. 49 first up when talks begin next week.

Petrevski-Seton, 23, was twice dropped to the VFL this year and averaged 14 disposals across his 14 games in the senior team, playing a lot of half back and half forward.

Fremantle did not bang down the door for Petrevski-Seton but is keen on contracted Geelong speedster Jordan Clark.

Former Collingwood and Carlton great Dale Thomas said former teammate Petrevski-Seton loomed as one of the pick-ups of the year for the Eagles.

“I can see him being one the Carlton fans in a year’s time say ‘Geez, what are we doing letting him go, or how didn’t we keep him’ and ‘how didn’t we get the best out of him because he has unbelievable skills’,” Thomas said on Triple M.

“He was probably starved of a little bit of opportunity (and) some of it was his own doing because of his consistency, but I really do like him.

“He is a really good talent and next year I think certainly he will be in that conversation for recruit of the season … and have a really big impact.

“He loved it tough and he loved it hard and he has got the skills to match.”

Co-captain Patrick Cripps gave the departing Blue his blessing to head home.

“Sometimes guys just need change to have a fresh start and get back to the way they were playing,” Cripps said.

“From my point of view he’s a great mate and I chatted to him yesterday and wished him all the best.

“I’d like nothing better than to see him play well wherever he’s going.”

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