- Jul 8, 2017
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We haven't had many 10 ten picks in recent years TBF. Gibcus and before that Vlastuin from memory.
List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency - Fred 11
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The accumulation of quality picks strategy, although completely forced due to a "top tier" player Exodus, is the correct one & I think the return we got for those players was on-song for what we should have expected. I don't think we necessarily got overs, but we did well to get the value considering how shit our season was.
But the total lack of targeting recycled, senior players is a huge mistake in my opinion. Yze can't lean on the excuse of "we had 1000 games of experience leave & be replaced with zero game experience' as that was the straetegy he & the club chose to make. We could have easily added Jack Martin, Markov, Jack Carroll, MacRae Stringer, Parfitt etc & just added some players that can play some minutes and not be learning on the job.
still time to get some, but a lot of the better choices are now gone
But the total lack of targeting recycled, senior players is a huge mistake in my opinion. Yze can't lean on the excuse of "we had 1000 games of experience leave & be replaced with zero game experience' as that was the straetegy he & the club chose to make. We could have easily added Jack Martin, Markov, Jack Carroll, MacRae Stringer, Parfitt etc & just added some players that can play some minutes and not be learning on the job.
still time to get some, but a lot of the better choices are now gone
Get a grip!
On one hand you say that accumulating picks was the right strategy.
But on the other hand you say that the total lack of targeting recycled, senior players was a huge mistake.
What do you think would have happened if we picked up 2 of those said players?
I'll tell you!
We wouldn't be able to use those picks that we accumulated!
Now stop banging on about it.
We still have Broad, Vlas, Short, Prestia, TT , JH, Nank, Kmac, Lynch.
70 gamer Jack Ross.
We may add a DFA ruck like Naismith. Or just draft a kid.
We've bottomed. Got an insane draft hand. 2,3 high pick mids will slot in the middle.
When TT & JH joined it pushed players fwd.
We have lost our half fwd line but big deal! Picks 1 & 6 and Prestia, TT, JH roll through there. Hugo to D. Riolis spot at half back ~ don't need Markov back at the club.
Campbell to one wing.
29 yo Jack Dusty Martin ? 6 years injured.
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The recycled players would cost you zero picks. none. For roster spots, It would have been a case of moving on 2 more players - which is piss easy considering our list. There are about 5 blokes who only still have a job because so many blokes requested to be traded & replacing them with guys who are definite starting 18 players when fit. Jack Martin & Markov would have both be that & would have cost around $650 between them. We have lost 1000 games of experience in one off-season and have brought in zero games of experience & currently have the most unbalanced list i have ever seen with 80+% of them being under 22 or over 29.
People celebrate these picks - but they are the reward of a entire generation of beloved Tigers giving up on the club and departing. Never forget that. And if we stuff them up, they are worth Kayne Pettifer, Danny Meyer, AAron Fiora, Adam Pattison, Jarryd Oakley Nicholls etc etc etc. It blows my mind that Richmond fans have gotten so cocky at "drafting". We won the flags off about 2-3 good drafts, thats it. Since 2017 the results are about a C-, we have no form in drafting atm.
By going in with such a weak , inexperienced u21 group, & injury prone mature group - the risk of being historically bad is high. You cannot EVER be historically bad. Its unacceptable! What type of club are these cubs walking into? And if they are getting beaten by 10+ goals 10-12 times a year, are they going to fall in love with the place like we need? I want the young blokes to come to a club where they actually get to play alongside AFL players, not just against them.
And irrelevant of how cool and impressive having 8 picks inside the top 24 is - when have you EVER heard of a team in any sport getting more than ,2 3 or 4, at best, meaningful picks in a single draft? The club should be looking at trading 3, even 4 of those picks for 2025 & make that a continual advantage/strategy we do moving forward, ala like GWS did + The Oklahoma Thunder in the NBA. It means you enter every draft with a extra 1st or 2nd rounder every year for the next 5 years, and keep adding to that by making other deals. The idea of using them all at once is very flawed and is asking for historical success. A strategy of taking the best of those pick that gets us our tippy top prospects, then banking the others for future stability would be a far better strategy. Quite honestly, when is "banking away some assets" for the future ever worked out badly for anyone? As long as in the future you make smart moves, its giving you a chance to balance out your list ages as well.
People are not very smart. You can do more than 1 thing at once. In fact, when it comes to player management, you can do everything at once if you like. Get younger. Get more picks. Get more experience players. Get better quality players. You can literally end the season with zero ruckman and 3 months later have 4 with 50-100+ games of experience if you really want to. Its called "being pro- active Vs re-active".
We got the picks as a reaction of a player exodus. Not by being pro-active
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You are a mess.
The Goon
Norm Smith Medallist
Are we aiming for a ceiling of mid table mediocrity, or a future premiership?
Muddiemoose
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- Aug 24, 2017
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We only had two players re sign at the end of the year in Dow and McIntosh and seeing that your are arguing that we should be getting in guys with runs on the board Kmac should of stayed leaving only Dow
But the two guys you suggested are a forward and a half back flanker when the guys who we have lost are all pretty much midfielders so it doesn’t make a lot of sense
Plus Jack Martin has played like 50 games in the last 5 years due to constant injury issues so it’s not exactly a sound investment for on field experience if we can realistically only expect 10 games from him
They also would of cost us the compensation pick we got for Graham
Short term top ups are only going to be stealing off games off younger players that need to sink or swim anyway
We have enough experience right now with Broad, Vlaustiun, Balta, Hopper, Taranto, Kmac, Prestia, Short and Lynch to do what those two tops ups would of and we have guys hitting thay 50 game mark that should be starting to take some of load off as well in Mansell, Hugo and Ross
Free agency and experience will absolutely be needed but no point for this off season
We have 8 picks whose to say we don't do something similar to that anyway? take 6 picks in a deeper draft and still move 2 on to next year? Would give us 3 top picks next year.
Martin can play mid/wing as well as forward. Markov is as much of interest as he is a pro but a GREAT clubman. He is fun to have around and blokes like that can make losing sting a bit less, which is important with developing teenagers. You need your mini-leaders. Having Markov would allow Short to go into the middle or a wing. I honestly would take either of these 2 over KMac as well.
Saying neither of our forwardline or backline needs support is just bullshit. The forwardline was the worst thing i have ever seen wearing yellow & black. it was the absolute pits. And with Rioli & Baker gone and Short deciding to become 1/10th the player he was - Markov would have been a solid addition & is only 28 years old.
Both the players i have chosen are as much an example of the strategy than being about "them". If it was Jake Stringer & MacRae - whoever. Get at least 300games of experience in to replace the 1000-1500+ games you just lost! Its not rocket science.
The blokes in the age group who might make a leap are all poor prospects. Dow. Ryan. Mansell. Ross. MRJ. Hayes-Brown. Kosi. Miller. Blight. Its not the list we had in 2010 of Cotchin, Riewoldt, Rance, Edwards, Grimes, Astbury. Griffiths. Martin - is it? Even Vickery, Collins, Connors & Post would sit in the top half of the 2025 list i mentioned. Vickery had shown MILES & MILES more than Ryan & Kosi at the same point.
Yeah still time for that side of it, but going to be harder and less effective trying to fill those additional spots with mature age recruits AFTER all the movement has already happened. That was the point i was mainly making. I would be very surprised if the club doesn't try to bank a few + upgrade another to be inside the top 10.
9 list spots I think. So will need DFA or 2 and rookie elevation.
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That strategy would be dead set laughable if u chose to go down that path , plain obvious we need to invest in raw tala et and at this stage it’s a bit of a game of numbers as they dont all come off
how does this strategy differ from going for raw talent?
Trading high end picks to upgrade to more elite picks & trading later 1st round picks this year for projected 1st rounders + more picks in 2025 is the same strategy, just ensuring we do it more than "once". I don't think there is any real reason to why it would be deferring off a rebuild strategy. We are talking about investing in a 5 year rebuild to ensure that all 5 years give you "more" & using recycled free players to top up in the meantime to ensure we don't get historical beatings.
Taking 8 picks in the first 24 is just dumb. Split them over several drafts or package them to get 2 of the top 3 picks etc.
Look through the history of drafts mate - there are literally some years where there is barely 8 players get to 150 games out of the top entire 24 & at best 50% of the top 20 meet the expectation alone.
You reckon THIS CLUB with is piss-poor drafting over the past decade can all of a sudden hit on 8 picks in a single draft alone?? ? How is trading 2 picks from this years draft, that is being reported as "super" to maybe get 2 1st rounders back + a couple of 2nds as well for 2025-26 not a bad strategy? This is legit was GWS have done and it means every year they cash cheques
Because most have proven to not be able to play at the level in a sustained fashion ,,, eg parfitt markov etc I understand the need for senior players to shoulder the load , we have plenty to do that
Noidnadroj
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- Dec 8, 2020
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We’ve made those mistakes a LOT since 2000… these names ring any bells (I’m sure I’ve missed a few)?:
Steven Sziller
Adam Houlihan
Bill Nichols
Luke Weller
Ben Marsh
Jeremy Humm
Andrew Moore
Kent Kingsley
Tom Hislop
Ben Cousins
Brad Miller
Addam Maric
Ricky Petterd
Sam Lonergan
Orren Stephenson
Matt Thomas
Todd Banfield
Jacob Townsend
Matthew Parker
Sam Naismith
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Maverick Weller a shocking omission.
Noidnadroj
Norm Smith Medallist
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Do you not recall the first 9 x games of 2010? 0-9 with a sub-50% percentage. Some of the most enjoyable losing footy I’ve watched as the team was filled with promising kids and we could see a future.
We were being compared to Fitzroy and there were calls for AFL assistance. Our R9 team of 2009 had these players with 100+ games:
Shane Tuck
Brett Deledio
Ben Cousins
Chris Newman
That’s it.
The players over 26yo in that team?:
Ben Cousins
Shane Tuck
Chris Newman
That’s it.
That same team won 5 of the next 6 games in 2010.
That team didn’t win a final until 2017 - we know the rest.
So who cares if we are full of youngsters and who cares if it takes a while to be competitive?
We’ve got 10 players with 100+ games experience on the 2025 list and 10 players aged over 26yo. It’s more than enough experience and wise heads around the club.
It might be a tough season or two on the scoreboard, but I can’t wait to see our next generation grow together like I watched 15-years ago.
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wegetpumped
Norm Smith Medallist
You don't need top ten to pick winners. Just look at all those close to us we couldn't read now there are flying at other clubs. Kids isn't all about top ten.
wegetpumped
Norm Smith Medallist
They can be forgiven as they tried secretly to sponsor Camel smokes but someone forgot to tell them the camel had to have 2 humpsTrust the club ? we had a camel at pre season last year
What drugs are you lot on? We just finished bottom of the ladder with a historically bad 2 wins, & then lost near 1500 games of experience & replaced it with NONE. What possible reasoning do any of you have to think the team will go better???
We are laughing at names that would, EASILY, be walk up starting 18 players in our side, especially if the same old, injury prone blokes get injured again, which they have done consistently now for 3 years. If we are laughing at Markov, Stringer, MacRae, Martin, Parfitt - then the other teams must be rolling on the floor when we name Ryan, Dow, Kmac
who in the group U24 are you expecting to make a giant leap? Dow??? Ryan?? Sonsie??? Gibcus after missing 2 years??
If we took out just 4 players - Lynch, Prestia, Valustin, Kmac - then the remaining 40 players left have played a combined LESS GAMES than the blokes that that just walked out the door. What possible reasoning could anyone actually have that this team will win more games, not less? Your optimism and your reasoning don't add up
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