List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 8

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New thread

List Mgmt. - Trade & Free Agency Part 9

www.bigfooty.com

 

[TJTIGER]

why would we

Heard he’s being given a go in VFL midfield…

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Think Kamdyn is a FA.

Ah, right you are.

Maybe something like this is possible....

1 North use their favourable cap space to make Kamdyn an offer big enough to net Richmond a 3rd round pick(currently pick 40.)

Then, completely independently of step 1 of course....

2 Richmond gives North our rd 2 pick(currently 21) for Phillips, and picks 58, 67.


North gets a really good pick for Phillips, and uses the cash they save from paying him to boost the McIntosh offer.

Tigers get Phillips for McIntosh and just a 200 draft points downgrade(equivalent of about pick 55.) OK, we lose the bargaining power of pick 21, likely worth another 200ish draft points. But those deals might suit all parties.

 

[Morro]

Ah, right you are.

Maybe something like this is possible....

1 North use their favourable cap space to make Kamdyn an offer big enough to net Richmond a 3rd round pick(currently pick 40.)

Then, completely independently of step 1 of course....

2 Richmond gives North our rd 2 pick(currently 21) for Phillips, and picks 58, 67.


North gets a really good pick for Phillips, and uses the cash they save from paying him to boost the McIntosh offer.

Tigers get Phillips for McIntosh and just a 200 draft points downgrade(equivalent of about pick 55.) OK, we lose the bargaining power of pick 21, likely worth another 200ish draft points. But those deals might suit all parties.

YUK!

Pick 21, wash yo mouth out

 

[Meteoric Rise]

YUK!

Pick 21, wash yo mouth out

What is the history of the first pick in the second round that makes it so special?

 

[Morro]

What is the history of the first pick in the second round that makes it so special?

I dont care, I am focused on the future and this draft is stacked in the top 30

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I dont care, I am focused on the future and this draft is stacked in the top 30

But I too am focussed on the future. In the trades I mentioned, we would be getting almost as many draft points back and using them to trade for picks higher than 21(which will fall to late 20's.)

So that is hardly an argument against.

EDIT: First pick in the second round history...

2023 pick 30 Archer Reid, Eagles
2022 pick 22 Max Gruzewski, Giants
2021 pick 21 Matthew Johnson, Dockers
2020 pick 27 Nathan O'Driscoll, Fremantle
2019 pick 22 Deven Robertson, Lions
2018 pick 24 Bobby Hill, Giants

I think that is it since live trading commenced.

What have the clubs who traded the pick out live got in return?

2018 Crows gave up pick 24 live for pick 30 & future pick that ended up at 26
2019 Port gave up 22 to get 23 and Collingwood f2 which ended up about pick 44.
2020 Collingwood traded pick 27 to get picks 30 and Freo's F3(roughly pick 50)
2021 Not traded live
2022 Not traded live(Richmond used it as part of acquiring Taranto in the trade period.)
2023 Not traded live.

2018 was the only time it yielded a decent profit in live trading but that was only due to a winning punt on Carlton's 2019 finishing position.

 

[Morro]

But I too am focussed on the future. In the trades I mentioned, we would be getting almost as many draft points back and using them to trade for picks higher than 21(which will fall to late 20's.)

So that is hardly an argument against.

Dude your argument included pick 21 for a ****n dud, its a terrible argument from the start

 

[captain cotch 9]

Its strange that Grimes hasnt announced his retirement

 

[tigs2010]

Its strange that Grimes hasnt announced his retirement

About to sign a 3 year deal

 

[Coach_Required]

About to sign a 3 year deal

Been a crap season for grapes, needs the cash to reinvest.

 

[_RT_]

It could form part of a deal for Phillips.

Kmac + our rd 3 pick, currently 39 for Phillips. North give us back their junk picks currently 58, 67 we can tack on to deals with clubs looking for points. This may be a fair trade that suits all parties.

North gets an experienced guy who will help lift & maintain their standards.

Tigers get a fringe inside mid who might have upside.

Phillips gets a chance to get a clear run at midfield minutes and playing alongside some big mature bodies, and probably a 3 year deal.

Kamdyn gets a 2 year deal probably on decent money for him.

No, just no.

If North want McIntosh they don't need to trade for him, just take him for free.

If we cut Dow, I'd take Phillips. He's an upgrade.

Phillips isn't that much of an upgrade on Dow and if we manage to bring in 2-3 young midfielders at the draft, Phillips becomes a list clogger.

 

[_RT_]

Ah, right you are.

Maybe something like this is possible....

1 North use their favourable cap space to make Kamdyn an offer big enough to net Richmond a 3rd round pick(currently pick 40.)

Then, completely independently of step 1 of course....

2 Richmond gives North our rd 2 pick(currently 21) for Phillips, and picks 58, 67.


North gets a really good pick for Phillips, and uses the cash they save from paying him to boost the McIntosh offer.

Tigers get Phillips for McIntosh and just a 200 draft points downgrade(equivalent of about pick 55.) OK, we lose the bargaining power of pick 21, likely worth another 200ish draft points. But those deals might suit all parties.

Why would we give up the highly converted first pick of the second round for Phillips?

We want to increase the number of top end picks not decrease them for list cloggers

 

[_RT_]

What is the history of the first pick in the second round that makes it so special?

Clubs can trade a future first for a kid that has slid out of the first round. We'd be mad to give it up for Phillips and a 20 spot downgrade with no guarantee that we could trade up.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Clubs can trade a future first for a kid that has slid out of the first round. We'd be mad to give it up for Phillips and a 20 spot downgrade with no guarantee that we could trade up.

Check my edit on post #5381. There is zero history of clubs live trading future firsts for that pick. I don't think the pick is as coveted as you believe. It seems to mainly attract a small premium and that is it. But as we showed last year, trading down from any pick normally attracts a similar premium. Also, this pick is likely to end up around pick 28-30 this year.

The club is not going to be able to get really funky with this pick. It comes down to how much they like Phillips(or another player.) And also how they are lined up overall in terms of trading points for rd 1 picks.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Dude your argument included pick 21 for a ****n dud, its a terrible argument from the start

It's a terrible argument because pick 21 is the first pick in rd 2, or because Phillips is not worth a few hundred draft points(roughly pick 50+) overall?

 

[tigs2010]

Check my edit. There is zero history of clubs live trading future firsts for that pick. I don't think the pick is as coveted as you believe. It seems to mainly attract a small premium and that is it. But as we showed last year, trading down from any pick normally attracts a similar premium. Also, this pick is likely to end up around pick 28-30 this year.

The club is not going to be able to get really funky with this pick. It comes down to how much they like Phillips(or another player.) And also how they are lined up overall in terms of trading points for rd 1 picks.

Usually the team with it is on the bottom and need to use the pick.

Teams came hard the year Freo. Geelong pushed hard for it in the Clark trade. Ultimately Freo kept it because the main slider was a WA kid.

This year will be unique, it's been stated teams will look to trade F1's into this draft for a slider. We will get a full day to listen to all offers rather than the usual 5 minutes.

We are also the team most likely to trade players out for picks and also the team that likely trades all the points for a first so less inclined to need to take the pick to the draft.

There's no way I'm giving that up for a long shot on Phillips not being a potato.

 

[Coach_Required]

Usually the team with it is on the bottom and need to use the pick.

Teams came hard the year Freo. Geelong pushed hard for it in the Clark trade. Ultimately Freo kept it because the main slider was a WA kid.

This year will be unique, it's been stated teams will look to trade F1's into this draft for a slider. We will get a full day to listen to all offers rather than the usual 5 minutes.

We are also the team most likely to trade players out for picks and also the team that likely trades all the points for a first so less inclined to need to take the pick to the draft.

There's no way I'm giving that up for a long shot on Phillips not being a potato.

Watch us beat Pies and **** up our 1st pick lol

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Usually the team with it is on the bottom and need to use the pick.

Teams came hard the year Freo. Geelong pushed hard for it in the Clark trade. Ultimately Freo kept it because the main slider was a WA kid.

This year will be unique, it's been stated teams will look to trade F1's into this draft for a slider. We will get a full day to listen to all offers rather than the usual 5 minutes.

We are also the team most likely to trade players out for picks and also the team that likely trades all the points for a first so less inclined to need to take the pick to the draft.

There's no way I'm giving that up for a long shot on Phillips not being a potato.

I rate Phillips higher than most. But regardless, none of these posts decrying my suggestion of effectively swapping McIntosh and pick for Phillips and later picks are considering the fact this would appear the only probable way we get a return for McIntosh, ie by slightly overpaying for Phillips.

 

[Sir_Rancelot]

Watch us beat Pies and **** up our 1st pick lol

That's a very Richmond thing to do

 

[Morro]

It's a terrible argument because pick 21 is the first pick in rd 2, or because Phillips is not worth a few hundred draft points(roughly pick 50+) overall?

Phillips is worth nothing more than a token pick, nothing more.

Your obsession with points has limitations that you refuse to consider but regardless, it appears the real difference in opinion is the value of Phillips so each to their own in that regard.

 

[tigs2010]

I rate Phillips higher than most. But regardless, none of these posts decrying my suggestion of effectively swapping McIntosh and pick for Phillips and later picks are considering the fact this would appear the only probable way we get a return for McIntosh, ie by slightly overpaying for Phillips.

I'd rather get nothing for K Mac and let North keep Phillips tbh. In all seriousness to get anything for K Mac they'd probably need to pay half a mill for 3 years minimum. They would be crazy. We already have enough late picks to get Brisbanes pick so we really don't need anything else.

Phillips is a poor fit with TT and Hopper and add a few top pick mids he's just not someone worth giving up 21 for.

 

[TJTIGER]

That's a very Richmond thing to do

In Martial Arts playbook as Gun to foot technique?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I'd rather get nothing for K Mac and let North keep Phillips tbh. In all seriousness to get anything for K Mac they'd probably need to pay half a mill for 3 years minimum. They would be crazy. We already have enough late picks to get Brisbanes pick so we really don't need anything else.

Phillips is a poor fit with TT and Hopper and add a few top pick mids he's just not someone worth giving up 21 for.

Pretty sure McIntosh only needs to be in the top 70% of contract values(after allowing for age) to attract band 5 compensation. North paying him $450k for 2 years should be getting somewhere near that. He is 30, younger than Isaac Smith was when he attracted what must have been about band 3 compensation. I wouldn't rule out McIntosh getting a deal that triggers band 5, but I am guessing to offer such a deal North would want something coming their way in return, thus my suggestion.

 

[Barunga Bullet]

What is the history of the first pick in the second round that makes it so special?

That 17 other clubs will come with good offers for pick 21 on night 2. Clubs always have a player they rate that slips. Could get us a future first

 

[Meteoric Rise]

That 17 other clubs will come with good offers for pick 21 on night 2. Clubs always have a player they rate that slips. Could get us a future first

See my post #5381 on this thread and see if you still think that.

Clubs will pay some sort of premium to trade up at any pick if they fancy a player who slides, it doesn't have to be the first pick in rd 2. The history of the pick certainly doesn't suggest it has any great premium attached to it.