List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 8

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New thread

List Mgmt. - Trade & Free Agency Part 9

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[Maurice Mitchell]

North wont trade Phillips for a pick in the 30's

Richmond shouldnt trade a pick better than 30 for Phillips

I have seen nothing from him that says elite or high level talent

Don’t want him. PSD at best I reckon

 

[RobsJourney]

We have half a dozen picks to draft youth. Trading our later picks is a stupid idea, bunch our picks first get into the first round then if pick 63 or whatever is left then offer Noth that pick for one of their fringe players. Not the other way round.

That IS the way I suggested it though? A pick in the 30s for Phillips may be a bit generous, but I did say that we trade in as many first round picks as we can (trading our players and bundling other picks to eg Brisbane), then whatever is left over we can use on fringe youth.

 

[tony__montana]

As mentioned previously, 2 picks in the 20s equates to 1 pick between 6-10. We could then trade our 2nd round pick and the Eagles 2nd for a pick in that range this year. Add in a potential Rioli trade and we could end up with 4 R1 picks this year and could use our later picks to end up with 6-7 picks inside the top 40. That is a very strong draft hand and certainly fast tracks a rebuild

Yeah but what you'll get for those 2 picks is arguably what you'll get for Baker as a standalone first. You wont get a pick under 10 in this draft for those picks, likely something in the teens which is what baker is worth anyway - so why convolute the process and risk not getting the deal done? Freo already have a pick that will do, i dont believe that its only west coast or bust for Baker. Pick 12-13 is fair

 

[_RT_]

With someone like Will Phillips, you can't just look at exposed form in their AFL career when assessing trade viability.
There would have been many reasons as to why he was taken at pick 3 by North. I understand their recruiting team around that time resembled a bag of potatoes but I refuse to believe that they willingly threw away a pick 3 at someone who was bad.

It's so easy just to say "oh he is crap, shown nothing at AFL level". Sometimes all it takes is a change of scenery or approach to extract the best out of someone.
If we were legitimately interested, I'd back the club in.
You can't just disregard these types of players IMO.

The issue, for me anyway, is the suggestion we give up pick 21 for him. A late 3rd or 4th round pick and I've got no problem in giving the kid a shot.

 

[_RT_]

Yeah but what you'll get for those 2 picks is arguably what you'll get for Baker as a standalone first. You wont get a pick under 10 in this draft for those picks, likely something in the teens which is what baker is worth anyway - so why convolute the process and risk not getting the deal done? Freo already have a pick that will do, i dont believe that its only west coast or bust for Baker. Pick 12-13 is fair

Freo only comes into it if he chooses them or says he's not fussed which WA club he goes to. If he chooses WCE then we can be picks and force them to trade for a mid R1 pick and risk a deal not getting done or we can do the easy deal and ask for 2 R2 picks 1 in 2024 and 1 in 2025. Everyone wins and nobody comes away looking like an arseh*le

 

[SleepingGiant]

All this talk about trading fringe players from other teams is concerning. I don't care what pick these players went in their draft, we need to keep our picks use those picks to move up the order and draft our own kids.

Hopefully all these rumours are just from other clubs trying to suck us into getting rid of all our late picks for draft capital.

I can categorically assure you from my club contacts that we will not trade for fringe players so they are wasting their breath.

 

[Coach_Required]

I can categorically assure you from my club contacts that we will not trade for fringe players so they are wasting their breath.

 

[tora tora tora]

The issue, for me anyway, is the suggestion we give up pick 21 for him. A late 3rd or 4th round pick and I've got no problem in giving the kid a shot.

The other assumption by that poster is that Dow is to be delisted/traded. I can't see him bring traded, like JGTI & Kmac just too Richmondy a role player. Borderline good/bad. Selectors love them. Game 15 in a break out season
zero interest elsewhere.
I think we retain them all. JGTI can tag and I look at RCD matured at 25. Dow will be the same. I think I'd rather give him another year over Phillips for 3~5 years. For Pick 21 & Kmac.

Arcane BS about a pick number.

 

[Coach_Required]

Grigg, Houli, Nank both say heyyy

Getting role players from other clubs is key to building a premiership side. Just as much as the Dion's and Lynch's. if our list management can get value then they will.

Not when you've only just started its not, plus Grigg & Houli were all first 22 players. Nank wasn't chased after until our list was established with a good range player age. We are far too early to go chasing fringe players especially ones who aren't even in their teams best 22.

 

[panatha1908]

When we are needing elite talent, it’s IMO lunacy to entertain trading out any of our picks inside 50 for players like Tsatas, Phillips etc….

Picks in the 40’s can be bundled for point swaps.

And history tells you that the rookie draft, MSD, PSD, late picks, FA’s etc… there’s a treasure trove of quality players to be attained without costing any draft capital.

If we had the core elite group in place then I’d happily explore trading for some recycled players with upside. But not when we need 2-3 more absolutely elite talents and need as many ‘throws at the stumps’ as we can get.

Let’s not forget where the bulk of our flag era players came from … keeping in mind at the end of 2016 we had 4 x bonafide elite players at the peak of their powers.

Leaving out those we know came from top-60 National draft selections, here are the rest from our 2017/19/20 flags :

Short : Rookie
Prestia: pick 6
Baker: Rookie
Pickett: MSD
Lambert: Rookie
Houli : PSD
Castagna: Rookie
Lynch: FA
Nank: pick 46
Broad (drafted with pick 67)
Grimes : PSD
Caddy : pick 24 (we also swapped 64 for 56 with which we got Jack Graham)
Soldo: Rookie
Grigg : swap with Collins
Butler: (drafted with pick 67)
Townsend: pick 70

So across our three flags, we traded a total of :

Pick 6, pick 46, pick 24 and pick 70

And this was all done AFTER we had the core elite talent needed for a flag tilt.

So why give up decent draft capital for Phillips/Tsatas now? Makes no sense to me when history tells you players of their ilk and better are so easily secured via avenues outside the national draft.



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And we should remember their clubs may need to make cap space so may want them out. I'd take them off their hands if we see something, only for a few picks swap different 3rd or 4th round, like the ginnivan trade, with these guys being far less accomplished. They would be deliated free agents if they weren't given contracts on potential

 

[prodigy]

The issue, for me anyway, is the suggestion we give up pick 21 for him. A late 3rd or 4th round pick and I've got no problem in giving the kid a shot.

Oh, I'm with ya there. He isn't worth a pick inside 30.

 

[fargothegreat]

I can categorically assure you from my club contacts that we will not trade for fringe players so they are wasting their breath.

Is this due to the lack of available list spots? Or just a change in policy from the moneyball-style recruiting we've done previously?

 

[Ctl]

Is this due to the lack of available list spots? Or just a change in policy from the moneyball-style recruiting we've done previously?

Historically we have been one of the sides that utilise trades the least, don't think it's a change in policy more so we only trade for targeted acquisitions.

List analysis: How your club has built its list

Check out how your club has put together its list heading into the 2024 season

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[Meteoric Rise]

Not when you've only just started its not, plus Grigg & Houli were all first 22 players. Nank wasn't chased after until our list was established with a good range player age. We are far too early to go chasing fringe players especially ones who aren't even in their teams best 22.

Grigg played 18 games at Carlton in the 2 years prior to coming to Richmond.

Houli played 25 games at Essendon in the 2 years prior to coming to Richmond.

Will Phillips for eg, will have played 24 games for North in 2023, 2024 combined after this weekend.

 

[Ctl]

Wonder if this creates a path for Baker to join the Eagles.

 

[Coach_Required]

Anyone hear Sydney Swans Kinnear Beatson talk about the possibility of some teams trading away their F1 pick to get into the 1st round this year? That's how highly regarded this draft is for depth. He even mentions it runs really deep and potentially past 50.

You hear that and then read comments here regarding Phillips and have to laugh.

 

[Morro]

Wonder if this creates a path for Baker to join the Eagles.

Doesnt he turn 29 in a few months, 5 years???? WTF

 

[tigs2010]

Doesnt he turn 29 in a few months, 5 years???? WTF

2 firsts even though his back is ****ed and he's ancient

 

[Morro]

2 firsts even though his back is ****ed and he's ancient

Sweet, WC should offer us all their picks for the next 3 years for Bolton then

 

[SleepingGiant]

Is this due to the lack of available list spots? Or just a change in policy from the moneyball-style recruiting we've done previously?

We rarely do the money ball. Only when we feel we can have a crack. Clearly we are nowhere near it for 4-5 years now.

We will funnily enough have a super hand in a super draft so will rebuild faster than most think. The club is heavily dependent of the outcome of 2021 crop. If they come on it could accelerate things but most likely 3 years at the bottom or bottom 4.

 

[tigs2010]

We rarely do the money ball. Only when we feel we can have a crack. Clearly we are nowhere near it for 4-5 years now.

We will funnily enough have a super hand in a super draft so will rebuild faster than most think. The club is heavily dependent of the outcome of 2021 crop. If they come on it could accelerate things but most likely 3 years at the bottom or bottom 4.

Agree I think we will have 3 bad years. Timing is perfect pre Tassie.

Could see a very similar woe is Richmond type thing in 2027 with the draft pick being pushed back just like 2010. We all know how that turned out.

Hopefully Toce knows what he's doing. We had 3 great drafts in 2006, 07, 09. Hopefully these 3 drafts we do well too. I won't hold it against him if he doesn't get 4 all time greats but he better be close

 

[fargothegreat]

We rarely do the money ball. Only when we feel we can have a crack. Clearly we are nowhere near it for 4-5 years now.

We will funnily enough have a super hand in a super draft so will rebuild faster than most think. The club is heavily dependent of the outcome of 2021 crop. If they come on it could accelerate things but most likely 3 years at the bottom or bottom 4.

It used to be our go-to recruiting method, but thankfully they abandoned it for the most part just before the dynasty.

Kosi was a bit of a return to it, but I guess that showed our desperation to find a key forward.

I like the idea of embracing the downtime for the next three years. I'd rather be a club that spends time at the bottom and then time at the top than a club that is stuck in the middle perennially.

With that plan, there is no real logic to holding onto Rioli/Baker/Bolton desperately.

 

[Noidnadroj]

One probable reason Phillips has looked so bad is he has not been able to get himself right after two bouts of glandular fever.

So of course you are not just looking at what he has done so far and wanting him on your list. You wouldn't even take him as a delisted free agent if you believed that what he has produced to this point reflects his likely future value. The only reason you would be interested in him is if you believed there was a realistic chance of him overcoming his energy issues and being able to train hard enough to build an AFL tank.

His footy in 2023 was not brilliant for a 3 pick but it was certainly not bad either. For example he played better in his 3rd season than Davies-Uniacke did in his 3rd season, in a similar role, similar level team. He also outperformed Jye Simpkin's 3rd season. He was just a bit behind Darcy Parish's 3rd season. Taylor Adams is another one. Plenty of strong mids had 3rd seasons well above Phillips as well, but the point is he played at a higher or similar level to the best season produced by plenty of decent AFL mids early in their careers.

For some reason in 2024 he has regressed unexpectedly. But the reports on the North board say he just doesn't have the recovery to get from contest to contest, which is exactly what he needs to do.

So it is a punt. In a straight swap, the pick now at 39 would be a fair price to pay. Whether North would go for that I am not sure. If it is true they are after McIntosh as a free agent then the two clubs might be able to scratch each others backs a bit. Richmond will obviously be in receipt of medical advice etc about the likelihood of Phillips regaining full energy at any time soon, but if they deem he is a worthwhile risk then it is worth handing something over to get him.

It would be the most ‘North Melbourne’ thing of all time to do if they secured Macca as a free agent - I can’t believe that’s a possibility, but would make my day if it happened. Is there a world where we get band-5 compo for Macca (pick 40) and band-3 compo for Graham (pick 22).

We can dream …..


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[Coach_Required]

Agree I think we will have 3 bad years. Timing is perfect pre Tassie.

Could see a very similar woe is Richmond type thing in 2027 with the draft pick being pushed back just like 2010. We all know how that turned out.

Hopefully Toce knows what he's doing. We had 3 great drafts in 2006, 07, 09. Hopefully these 3 drafts we do well too. I won't hold it against him if he doesn't get 4 all time greats but he better be close

Can easily see this draft being one of those where supporters will argue for years who got the best players.

It's so exciting, reckon we have had a bad year at the perfect time, surely the club is big enough now that it has the right people around than just to rely on 1 person.

If we can score another 1st rounder with our late picks (say to Brissy) Baker leaves to West Coast and Barrass decides to leave Eagles for picks, to grab an extra pick in the top 20 I'll be doing freaking cartwheels all summer long.

Also, you'd hope Barrass goes to Hawthorn, so they drop the ridiculous idea of Battle giving St Kilda an extra top 10 pick.

 

[Noidnadroj]

I can't believe some of us are getting sucked into it. If we want Phillips then let North delist him and when the time is right pick him up for free. Personally, I wouldn't even bother to do that, we are a long way from our window to start trading in fringe players in the hope they turn good.
North wants one of our late picks so they can bunch them together and swap with a 1st rounder, this should be our priority as we already have those picks in the bank.

I think a lot of decisions will depend on what they do with the rules around point swaps. Suggestions are they may only include picks in the first 3 x rounds (1-54), meaning picks 55 onwards have very limited value. Obviously I’d be more than happy to offload any picks like this for Phillips or Tsatas. But if any pick under 55 has points value attached, they are liquid gold in helping us get up the draft order in a point swap and should be treated as such.

But the CFL still has a chance to screw us and change the rules, so let’s see what happens.


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