Twiggy sticks a great big log up Rudd

[Scotland]

 

[King Elvis]

How about Eagles and I have a friendly bet that the mining industry will not collapse because of the super tax if it is introduced, just as it didn't collapse when work choices was binned.

Nobody has said it'll collapse, except you.

You've been owned repeatedly across these threads by Eagle, and now you're trying to alter the context of his opposition to the tax to try and reclaim some ground.

 

[Eagle87]

Eagle would kick my arse ... again ... so let's change the subject and argue something not actually in dispute ... let's hope no one notices ...

EFA ....


You squib ...

 

[Scotland]

http://www.perthnow.com.au/business...ng-on-pilbara-jv/story-e6frg2r3-1225882357466

MINING giants BHP and Rio Ltd have reached a royalty agreement with the WA Government for their iron ore operations in the state.
The two mining companies have agreed to pay iron ore royalties at all their Pilbara mines at a rate of 5.625 per cent for fines and 7.5 per cent for lump.

The new rates will apply from July 1 this year.

A one-off combined payment of $350 million will also be made by the companies to the WA Government.

Negotiations between mining companies and government take place.

Negotiations between mining companies and government take place with resolution of said companies paying higher royalties.

Bugger me.

Anyway, 7.5% of revenue + 30% of taxable income to govt(s). A 'fair' or 'unfair' return?

 

[King Elvis]

Mining companies don't negotiate reasonably though, you clearly made that up.

 

[morgoth]

http://www.perthnow.com.au/business...ng-on-pilbara-jv/story-e6frg2r3-1225882357466



Negotiations between mining companies and government take place.

Negotiations between mining companies and government take place with resolution of said companies paying higher royalties.

Bugger me.

Anyway, 7.5% of revenue + 30% of taxable income to govt(s). A 'fair' or 'unfair' return?

Kev & Wayne will be trying to work out how to get their hands on that cash.

Pity for them that sec 114 of the constitution stops them dead in their tracks.

 

[Dry Rot]

Kev & Wayne will be trying to work out how to get their hands on that cash.

Pity for them that sec 114 of the constitution stops them dead in their tracks.

Don't worry. If they get back in, look forward to a super profits on banks and telcos. And your local 7/11 - those bastards obviously make super profits.

 

[Pessimistic]

Getting a sense twiigy has removed both Rudd anf Himself from relevance in the mining industry.

 

[Doctor Jolly]

Announcement on mining tax expected today.

I also expect the extreme right wingers on here to be suitably outraged no matter what the outcome.

 

[morgoth]

Interesting, so why did they go after Rudd?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...er-pm-kevin-rudd/story-e6frg8zx-1225885916139

KEVIN Rudd secretly negotiated a super-tax deal with billionaire miner Andrew Forrest in his last days as prime minister.

And the mining industry has now called on Julia Gillard to come up with a even better tax proposal.

In an extraordinary turn of events, Mr Forrest yesterday revealed a far-reaching secret compromise deal he said he had negotiated with the former prime minister.

The proposal included lifting the rate at which the 40 per cent resource super-profits tax kicked in, from 6 per cent to 15 per cent; immediate write-offs for new capital and moving the taxing point for minerals to where they were dug out of the ground, rather than after processing.

 

[King Elvis]

Announcement on mining tax expected today.

I also expect the extreme right wingers on here to be suitably outraged no matter what the outcome.

Almost all of us were supportive of increased taxation of the mining industry; just not the joke that the Rudd/Swan/Gillard proposed.

Why would we be outraged if the end result is what we've said it should be from the start?

I expect you, Dawson, Barry, Metal, Grin etc will crack the shits massively and criticise Gillard if there is a compromise on the threshold and rate?

 

[Pessimistic]

Do they need to negotiate with forrest at all?

does he hold a mining industry post, and if he does should he after becoming so partisan.

Intersting that according to Forrest, he sealed a deal with Rudd, then attended a coaliton party meeting saying the only way to fix the tax was to change the government.

Also Gillard was at pains to say to all and sundry she would hold off any comment until speaking with the mining industry directly - ie not a proper negotiation process - out of courtesy to the mining industry , the Forrest comes out with this crap which we dont know whther it is true or not.

lets forget "Great big Tax" for a few days and think about "Great big conspiracy"

How high is his cred rally ?

 

[noddy]

Has Twiggy managed to stick a big log up into his own arse ?

I get a vibe that Twiggy is a little upset he is not fulfilling his dream of riding into the Pilbara on his trusty grey steed waving around the agreement that he manged to convince Kevin to sign that would guarantee the good old boys & gals of the Billionaires club a free reign on holding teddy bear picnics for the next trillion years.

Would make my day if this agreement will see Tony & Twiggy sitting on the sidelines holding hands & thinking "if only"

 

[morgoth]

Has Twiggy managed to stick a big log up into his own arse ?

I get a vibe that Twiggy is a little upset he is not fulfilling his dream of riding into the Pilbara on his trusty grey steed waving around the agreement that he manged to convince Kevin to sign that would guarantee the good old boys & gals of the Billionaires club a free reign on holding teddy bear picnics for the next trillion years.

Would make my day if this agreement will see Tony & Twiggy sitting on the sidelines holding hands & thinking "if only"

It was never about Twiggy or Clive. Whilst the media might love to use them as they are personalities, it has always been about the big listed miners, BHP, RIO etc as they are owned by a hell of a lot of Australians and are true global powerhouses.

Anyone who knows Twiggy's history at Anaconda Nickel would not get too carried away with anything he has to say.

 

[noddy]

It was never about Twiggy or Clive. Whilst the media might love to use them as they are personalities, it has always been about the big listed miners, BHP, RIO etc as they are owned by a hell of a lot of Australians and are true global powerhouses.

Anyone who knows Twiggy's history at Anaconda Nickel would not get too carried away with anything he has to say.

Then someone forgot to tell them then.

Although Clive has been very quiet lately.

 

[King Elvis]

No need for them to make any noise; their ads were working, and now they're in consultation.

No point wasting words.

Almost all of us were supportive of increased taxation of the mining industry; just not the joke that the Rudd/Swan/Gillard proposed.

Why would we be outraged if the end result is what we've said it should be from the start?

I expect you, Dawson, Barry, Metal, Grin etc will crack the shits massively and criticise Gillard if there is a compromise on the threshold and rate?

Not one answer yet.

Shirkers.

 

[Eagle87]

Almost all of us were supportive of increased taxation of the mining industry; just not the joke that the Rudd/Swan/Gillard proposed.

Why would we be outraged if the end result is what we've said it should be from the start?

I expect you, Dawson, Barry, Metal, Grin etc will crack the shits massively and criticise Gillard if there is a compromise on the threshold and rate?

The bolded bit is manifestly untrue.

Apart from shallow rhetoric, no one has adequately explained why this sector should pay more than it does.

I look forward to you providing a detailed response.

 

[GuruJane]

Not one answer yet.

Shirkers.

Grin has done a bunk ever since he was asked on his own thread to indicate which of Abbott's 12 policies he disagreed with.

Apparently he has to wait for ALP HQ to tell him

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Grin's no more an ALP voter than I'm ever going to be, so that shot of yours is about as accurate as a US "smart" missile there Jane. Methinks you're just trying to play "gotcha" - and obviously it ain't working yet

I expect you... will crack the shits massively and criticise Gillard if there is a compromise on the threshold and rate?

If she ends up going down that road in order to garner short-term political capital with the big mining companies, then yes - because it would then be clear that the MCA and a few other corporate entities have indeed been able to use their financial muscle, through large-scale ad buys, to successfully subvert government policy for their own narrow benefit, to the detriment of the rest of us.

 

[medusala]

If she ends up going down that road in order to garner short-term political capital with the big mining companies, then yes - because it would then be clear that the MCA and a few other corporate entities have indeed been able to use their financial muscle, through large-scale ad buys, to successfully subvert government policy for their own narrow benefit, to the detriment of the rest of us.

As if the people of WA needed an advertising campaign for them to realise this was an utterly ludicrous idea.

If you are going to troll could you at least put a bit of effort in to it.

 

[GuruJane]

Grin's no more an ALP voter than I'm ever going to be, so that shot of yours is about as accurate as a US "smart" missile there Jane. Methinks you're just trying to play "gotcha" - and obviously it ain't working yet

Woulda thought it would be a no brainer for Grin to itemise what policies of Abbott's he agreed or disagreed with, especially when he himself started a thread debunking Abbots policies!

If she ends up going down that road in order to garner short-term political capital with the big mining companies, then yes - because it would then be clear that the MCA and a few other corporate entities have indeed been able to use their financial muscle, through large-scale ad buys, to successfully subvert government policy for their own narrow benefit, to the detriment of the rest of us.

She's in a wedge. To get out of it she should have pulled the whole tax the moment she was elected and blamed Rudd for not having had a lengthy Hawke style consultation. Then said that if elected, she would do what Rudd should gave done in the first place and put the whole Henry review up for a period of public debate before putting policy proposals out there.

I think the sole reason she didn't do that was because her Deputy Prime Minister is the architect of the whole disaster, right down to the class war attack.

Swan is the millstone around Julia's "swan like" neck and her weakest link to mix the metaphors.

 

[Dogga79]

The bolded bit is manifestly untrue.

Apart from shallow rhetoric, no one has adequately explained why this sector should pay more than it does.

I look forward to you providing a detailed response.

Agreed.

However, if we are going to hit mining companies up for more I would rather see increases in royalties, based on the amount and market price of unprocessed minerals they dig up.

That way the benefit goes to the particular state. State governments would love it also because they would work cooperatively with big mining companies to get maximum returns. More workers, more infrastructure all designed to make lots of money, done cooperatively.

I am the lightest of lightweights when it comes to economics, but this idea makes sense to me. If the revenue goes into the federal kitty it seems as though it will just be wasted. That goes for both parties.

 

[morgoth]

Agreed.

However, if we are going to hit mining companies up for more I would rather see increases in royalties, based on the amount and market price of unprocessed minerals they dig up.

That way the benefit goes to the particular state. State governments would love it also because they would work cooperatively with big mining companies to get maximum returns. More workers, more infrastructure all designed to make lots of money, done cooperatively.

I am the lightest of lightweights when it comes to economics, but this idea makes sense to me. If the revenue goes into the federal kitty it seems as though it will just be wasted. That goes for both parties.

It should go into a future fund with a % of the income going to fund education, R&D and innovation. The balance to be put away for a rainy day.

That's what pisses me off about it, it is not being used for anything other than spending. Disgraceful.

 

[Doctor Jolly]

The bolded bit is manifestly untrue.

Apart from shallow rhetoric, no one has adequately explained why this sector should pay more than it does.

I look forward to you providing a detailed response.

I agree that whay Elvis said is untrue. The right wing do not want mining to pay more tax.

But the simplistic view is that minerals are owned by Australians, are finite, and therefore we should be getting as much for them as we can.

Think of it this way. You've got a bit of spare furniture at home, so you invite the 2nd hand dealer around, and he takes some and pays you $10 per item. Then you see him selling it at $1000 in his shop.

Do you say "oh well", or do you make him pay more next time.?

 

[King Elvis]

I agree that whay Elvis said is untrue. The right wing do not want mining to pay more tax.

Agree all you want.

These threads directly contradict you, the bulk of us are supportive of a profit-based resource tax; just not one which will reduce long term investment and consequently tax revenue.