Vent Thread

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TheHeatleyStand said:
Coaches are paid very good money to manage a football team and have them playing as close to their optimum as possible... or they arent succesful in their role.

Its hard to redraft another 44 players to have a team of All Australians capable of winning a hack coach a flag.... but its much easier to look for someone who has the capability of managing a footy club close to its optimum output.

If i had to vote id say the coach should go.....
Click to expand...
Fine, let the coach go.

And, as the playing group apparently decides which coaches they will or won't perform at their maximum for, they should choose his replacement.

And when they decide they have lost faith in the replacement coach, they can go back to playing at less than their best and it all starts again.

They are professional footballers. There is no excuse whatsoever for them not to perform at their maximum. If they aren't, whatever the reason, they are shitting directly on you as a supporter.

The "losing the players" excuse is a weak and pathetic copout for supposed professionals.
 
The OP makes plenty of good points in relation to today's game, and few of them have anything to do with coaching and gameplan.

I am guessing the sugar coaters are the ones that refer to lack of experience, that refer to where other teams were placed at the same stage of development.

Every time any team has gone through such form lapses, their supporters jump up and down and think the sky is falling. In some cases, the coach stays, the bulk of the players stay and that team goes on to have success.

I guess if you can see that subtle mindset shifts can greatly affect a team's performance, you are loathe to throw it all out the window and start again. How many coaches waltz into a side and win a flag right away? Not many. They basically have to reinvent the team and come up with a new 5 year plan (thanks Terry).

Who here thinks Murphy is in career best form? What about Gibbs? How many of our players are in best form? If you answered 'not many', then ponder this ..... do you expect them to never regain form?

Is the reason you are so frustrated, that you know they are capable of so much better? Does it seem to you that there is an invisible switch somewhere and all you have to do is find it and switch them on? Welcome to the world of supporting a developing side. Frustrating as all hell, pretty much inexplicable most of the time. You follow the recipe but one of the ingredients is not working. Might have to get rid of it, might have to alter the quantity, or maybe it has to be left to mature.

I'm guessing the sugar coaters can see that potential and are able to supress their homicidal rage because the potential for fast change is still there.

Essendon were switched off for a long time, then switched on again the past couple of weeks. Pretty sure everyone thought Knights was on the outer with the players. Certainly doesn't look that way now. Tigers were off, then on, then off again. That switch is pretty damn temperamental when fitted on a young side.

Bottom line, you folks may be right. Maybe Ratten is a dud coach, maybe Hughes can not spot talent to save himself, maybe our players should be traded.

But what if you are wrong? What if they are on the verge of finding that switch. What if Ratten is just like another coach who was pretty much out the door several years back, and right now is still coaching the most dominant side of the current era?

Sugar coaters would simply rather get it wrong by supporting a doomed experiment, than get it wrong by destabilising and ousting a future success.
 

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Bell Ringer said:
Why does Shaun Hampson, who has been a professional footballer for almost 4 years, have absolutely NFI what to do when he has a set-shot from the boundary?

If Carrazzo's job is to shut-down Dane Swan, why did Swan have 15 touches halfway through the 2nd quarter when the game was well and truly over?

Why have we got so many players who handball at their team-mates feet and kick to the opposition when we have R. Harvey, G. Williams, C. Bradley and B. Ratten coaching them?

Why did the club trade for perceived "list deficiencies" when we're no where near a shot at the premiership?
Click to expand...

Carrots struggled as he was not allowed to do a Davey scragging job. I am not sure about Ch.10's stats - at Q time they had Swan down for 8 possies and after 2 mins of the 2ndQ they said he had 15.

sherb said:
Here's my vent:

vent.jpg
Click to expand...

You might want to spend more time on the house-cleaning and less on the internet old man ;)
 
JuddyBuddy said:
What do you do then Sherb? You can't turn the entire list over in one off season. Not saying the coach should go, just wondering how us we go about fixing things.
Click to expand...
Nothing to fix in that regard. He has not lose the players, that is just rhetoric. They might all be disillusioned that they are not where they thought they would be and nerves might be frayed, but Ratten is no tyrant, and hasn't got any real obvious selection conflicts. That part I am not worried about.

Speaking of not being where they would want to be, wasn't it after the St Kilda game that Yarran declared we were looking to win the flag this season? Our form ever since has been terrible.
 
sherb said:
Fine, let the coach go.

And, as the playing group apparently decides which coaches they will or won't perform at their maximum for, they should choose his replacement.

And when they decide they have lost faith in the replacement coach, they can go back to playing at less than their best and it all starts again.

They are professional footballers. There is no excuse whatsoever for them not to perform at their maximum. If they aren't, whatever the reason, they are shitting directly on you as a supporter.

The "losing the players" excuse is a weak and pathetic copout for supposed professionals.
Click to expand...


Football is about the transfer of the football through the goals.
And you do this by transfering a message from the coach to the players.

If the latter doesnt happen you wont get the former.

Ratts.. whatever his coaching style is... whatever his ideas are...whatever his grasp of stats is like.. and his delivery of message... cant get us to play anything like an efficient style of football game.

I said in another post...

Collingwood were in an AFL GF 2002 and 2003.

Only 2 or 3 players remain... and they havent had the benefit of number one picks... and still have a better record than we do.

Why??

cos were a dinosaur club.

10 years in the wilderness...

..and living in the shadow of long past VFL glory
 
I don't get how for the first 2 months, we exceeded all expectations. If we have the same gameplan :eek: how did it unravel like this?

Understand all year the goal has been to get to second week of the finals, thankfully we have enough credits from early wins and teams falling over, to still leave it in our hands.

But you'd reckon Ratten would be talking with the leadership group, pinpointing weaknesses and strengths from their feedback, wouldn't reckon he's some militant play this way or else type of coach.

Stil reckon we have some big heads out there, 2 months ago after we tagged Saints and Geelong, we were giving sides slack, then taking them down in 40 minutes of footy. As the year has gone on, we are out of games before half time.

Still, in some bizzaro way, we are on track. Go figure.:cool:
 
There you go then ODN, believing their own hype, and when the fans and supporters make excuses for them then what reason do they have to try and improve? Try and give it 110%? It's definitely not Rattens fault, it's the players, we have too many passengers and some are taking their spot in the 22 for granted.
 
The Old Dark Navy's said:
The OP makes plenty of good points in relation to today's game, and few of them have anything to do with coaching and gameplan.

I am guessing the sugar coaters are the ones that refer to lack of experience, that refer to where other teams were placed at the same stage of development.

Every time any team has gone through such form lapses, their supporters jump up and down and think the sky is falling. In some cases, the coach stays, the bulk of the players stay and that team goes on to have success.

I guess if you can see that subtle mindset shifts can greatly affect a team's performance, you are loathe to throw it all out the window and start again. How many coaches waltz into a side and win a flag right away? Not many. They basically have to reinvent the team and come up with a new 5 year plan (thanks Terry).

Who here thinks Murphy is in career best form? What about Gibbs? How many of our players are in best form? If you answered 'not many', then ponder this ..... do you expect them to never regain form?

Is the reason you are so frustrated, that you know they are capable of so much better? Does it seem to you that there is an invisible switch somewhere and all you have to do is find it and switch them on? Welcome to the world of supporting a developing side. Frustrating as all hell, pretty much inexplicable most of the time. You follow the recipe but one of the ingredients is not working. Might have to get rid of it, might have to alter the quantity, or maybe it has to be left to mature.

I'm guessing the sugar coaters can see that potential and are able to supress their homicidal rage because the potential for fast change is still there.

Essendon were switched off for a long time, then switched on again the past couple of weeks. Pretty sure everyone thought Knights was on the outer with the players. Certainly doesn't look that way now. Tigers were off, then on, then off again. That switch is pretty damn temperamental when fitted on a young side.

Bottom line, you folks may be right. Maybe Ratten is a dud coach, maybe Hughes can not spot talent to save himself, maybe our players should be traded.

But what if you are wrong? What if they are on the verge of finding that switch. What if Ratten is just like another coach who was pretty much out the door several years back, and right now is still coaching the most dominant side of the current era?

Sugar coaters would simply rather get it wrong by supporting a doomed experiment, than get it wrong by destabilising and ousting a future success.
Click to expand...


I think it is about finding a mix. Sure, you have to trust the coach, and realise that these guys are still a while away from being a premiership squad. But how long can the p word be used. 2 years, 3 years. Eventually the p word goes away. Example is Sentanta. He has been associated with the p word ever since he has been in the club. Now he is a 27 year old guy. Maybe there is a time when you have to realise that

A) The cattle isn't good enough and won't live up to their potential

or

B) The coach isn't the right person to guide the players into fulfilling their potential.

You would hope B would come before A. Which is the irony to your post. You say that you don't want the coach to go, because they might be leading a future premiership squad. But that coach could be the reason why these players aren't fulfilling their potential.

At the moment I still think Ratts is good enough. If he has a good tactition behind him. What i cannot work out is why eddie isn't unleashed into the middle often:thumbsdown:
 
Alpha1 said:
There you go then ODN, believing their own hype, and when the fans and supporters make excuses for them then what reason do they have to try and improve? Try and give it 110%? It's definitely not Rattens fault, it's the players, we have too many passengers and some are taking their spot in the 22 for granted.
Click to expand...
Alpha, I implore you to read what is written, comprehend it, and stop coming back to me out of frustration with rhetoric and zero discussion.

Better still mate, quote my posts and articulate what you disagree with. This wishy washy dismissive statements are enough to drive me batty.
 

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juddsentant517 said:
I didn't want to start a thread only on my opinions, but i need to vent, and there wasn't an adequate thread which would pollute the board.

I could handle the last decade or so, we were genuinely not good enough. We were very young for most of it, and it didn't seem like a lack of intensity and enthusiasm, rather just a lack of genuine skills.

In no ways are we ready, we are still young, raw, inconsistent etc. But there are some things that absolutely tear me up inside. Lack of awareness. Jordan Russell constantly handballs to people under pressure. Had a direct hand in many collingwood goals.

Inability to tackle/ intensity. There were periods of that game where they would just run through our team. Happened all over the ground, especially in our forwardline. Garlett is very good at chasing, but at standard tackles, he is terrible. Which leads to next point.

Forward pressure: may be due to our lack of a target. But surely it isn't that easy to get out of our forwardline. When it was in theirs, it stayed in their. They would kick a few points, a goal. We just couldn't get it out. We would kick it down there and bam, it would be out again.

Running into traffic: Side point of no awareness. Do these guys look when they run. How can you not see some body running right behind you. they constantly run straight into collingwood players. Which directly leads to the next point.

No/ weak shepparding/ blocking/support: Judd isn't the only player who doesn't receive this. Players around the guy trying to take the game on, just stand there and watch. They watch 3 collingwood guys from three different sides gang tackle the bloke. Do something.

Not running both ways: This was the worst of it for me. It is all good and well to run forward. But how many times in the second quarter did it seem like collingwood players were every where! They just ran harder. Nothing to do with talent or ability. It's about want. They wanted the ball more.

Our panicky defence and constant turnovers/stupid kicks were probably due to their all ground pressure, so that i could at least handle a little more.

Coaching is another issue. Why does Eddie betts never get released into the midfield. Was getting destroyed with two blockes double his size on him. Had one shot in the middle, won a clearance and was moved out. Don't understand it. Thought we would show some some intensity this game.

End vent. Please add your vents here.
Click to expand...

You could also add;

Kick it backwards more than we do forwards (do we know which end our goals are?)

Tackling is NOT throwing an arm out and hoping you might coathanger someone

Lack of footskills by mid tier players (AJ really does need to go back to the twos for a while)

Substituting a reliance on Fev for a reliance on Betts (are we any better off?)

A TOTAL lack of Spirit. I don't think Ratts has the confidence of the players.
 
TheHeatleyStand said:
Football is about the transfer of the football through the goals.
And you do this by transfering a message from the coach to the players.

If the latter doesnt happen you wont get the former.
Click to expand...

That's all very well .... if you were playing Playstation 3 and therefore working with the same artificial intelligence where it comes down to the actions coming from the person in control.

However, we have 16 teams whose coaches are all trying to get a message to the players to kick a goal or to players to stop a goal. With AI and equal abilities, you would be right to expect 50/50 success. Since we are not dealing with AI and 22 mindsets and sets of decision making are in play, how often success comes is not so easy to determine.

Funnily enough, Carlton are sitting at 50% games won, and a small touch better than break even in terms of points for and against.

I know I am making light of your extremely motivational motherhood statements, but for the sake of discussion, perhaps you can share what you know about the messages Ratten sends out and about what he is trying to achieve.

Maybe our problem is that if people are not in the inner sanctum, they assume the worst in that nothing is happening because they can not see it or hear it? Anybody feel like hacking into the coaches box next week?
 
If the players were fair-dinkum honest with their performance all of them will hopefully donate their match payments to a charity or hospital, for to accept and take money after a performance like that is a big smack in the face to all Carlton supporters, all football lovers, and the entertainment that football should be.

Not going to single out the one or two that did do something because collectively as a whole unit, from the boot-studder, to the uniform washer, to the masseur to the players to the coaches, the Carlton Football Club today got slapped in the face big-time. The last few years we copped our beating because we were seriously young, flawed and had a team band-aided together....

Enter Chris Judd, Dick Pratt.... the swagger returns.... we start to play with some passion again... we start winning... They know we're coming! And they all can smell what we're cooking! The club and marketing people did such a good job with the PR and bringing in Judd that now if we look really deep and take away the gloss we are in major trouble.

Today the ARCH ENEMY seriously ripped our heart out and returned us to a period of time that we should have begun to have forget by now. Eddie is in raptures... all the commentators are drooling over how bad we are and are revelling in it all.

Funny we didn't lose by as much this time as we did to them earlier in the year, but this was seriously the most painful game we've played since Pagan's last one.

Forget focussing on finals for now, this team needs to focus on the game of football, the 1%ers, structures, team ethic and spirit.... give a game to players we are unsure of for next year to ensure we eradicate those that wont cut the mustard. If we make finals so be it! But would rather end up 9th and begin to see us progress towards something.

I'm not saying to sack Ratts, but how awesome would it be to have a Leigh Matthews or Malcolm Blight reignite their desires to coach so we could bring them in for 2 years to physically and mentally strengthen this group and get them playing good old fashioned footy.
 
We were beaten by a bigger, stronger, fitter, harder team. We simply have too many small players, who do not work hard enough with their blocking and tackling.
 
Heres a vent, Sydney are above us on the ladder atm, and half way through the third Walls said Sydney were doing ok (they were 40 points down) and ended up 60 points down at 3/4 time. Yet we were down a similar amount and were playing crap......wheres the consistency in that. I know it was Blight who said we were very disappointing, after he predicted we would lose by 42 and were 41 down when he made the comment, so expectations of the 2 clubs and everyone commenting it seems is that we ought to be better than we are, even thought near everyone didnt even think we would make the 8 at the start of the year.......so Sydney down 40 points and are doing ok against the cats, we down 41 points against the top side and are very disappointing.......very balanced. NOT.
 
The Old Dark Navy's said:
That's all very well .... if you were playing Playstation 3 and therefore working with the same artificial intelligence where it comes down to the actions coming from the person in control.

However, we have 16 teams whose coaches are all trying to get a message to the players to kick a goal or to players to stop a goal. With AI and equal abilities, you would be right to expect 50/50 success. Since we are not dealing with AI and 22 mindsets and sets of decision making are in play, how often success comes is not so easy to determine.

Funnily enough, Carlton are sitting at 50% games won, and a small touch better than break even in terms of points for and against.

I know I am making light of your extremely motivational motherhood statements, but for the sake of discussion, perhaps you can share what you know about the messages Ratten sends out and about what he is trying to achieve.

Maybe our problem is that if people are not in the inner sanctum, they assume the worst in that nothing is happening because they can not see it or hear it? Anybody feel like hacking into the coaches box next week?
Click to expand...

Oh so we are at 50%?

but can we do any of these things after 3 years?

kick out
mark above our heads
zone
run 2 ways
backline structure
forwad line structure
defend
kick
handball
take a contested mark

just cos we have alot of earlier picks than every0one else and judd.... and had 9 years to rebuild .. doesnt mean we have to be average still.

COLLINGWOOD... were in succesive GFs in 2002 and 2003 while we were at the bootom and have RESTRUCTURED AND REDEVELOPED a whole new side since then.....

,,, while we make excuse after excuse....

Thatd the problem with the club... too many excuses.. and not enough accountability.

IS RATTEN a coach who is getting the most out of our players potential and development or not??

thats the question..

im saying no frigging way!!.. cos were average!!!
 
The Old Dark Navy's said:
I know I am making light of your extremely motivational motherhood statements, but for the sake of discussion, perhaps you can share what you know about the messages Ratten sends out and about what he is trying to achieve.

Maybe our problem is that if people are not in the inner sanctum, they assume the worst in that nothing is happening because they can not see it or hear it? Anybody feel like hacking into the coaches box next week?
Click to expand...

Share? ODN just watch the games mate.

More to the point just take a good look at bradley and ratten when the camera pays them a visit, my god, a million dollar org being run by huck and buck..
 
Stamos said:
We were beaten by a bigger, stronger, fitter, harder team. We simply have too many small players, who do not work hard enough with their blocking and tackling.
Click to expand...

That's about it there in a nutshell. Too small, too weak, don't work hard enough. Work on all those things and we may have half a side.
 

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