Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion Part 2

[Carringbush2010]

If you have not watched the video a few posts back about the AFL then do yourself a favour and watch it. Opened my eyes a bit.



There is heaps the AFL can and should do but simply are refusing to do. Do the big VIC clubs put pressure on them to not change things? Such simple solutions yet not being done.

Good watch guys

I've watched it, and you and everyone else have pointed out the points in that video before it was posted.

As for your question Do the big VIC clubs put pressure on them to not change things?

I wouldn't be surprised, it advantages them, they certainly wouldn't be advocating for change.

And that's the crux of the issue, the big 4 vic clubs are cash cows for HQ, hence we get fixtures that benefit them, why? Because those 4 clubs, regardless of how they're performing on field, they bring in fan and member $, via the gate and the TV. And the smaller clubs, whether vic or not miss out. It's a catch 22.

In saying that, North a small club have around 50k members, as bad as they've been they've never had as many members, are those members gluttons for punishment?

As the wookie pointed out earlier as long as HQ can distribute funds to keep the smaller clubs alive, those smaller clubs aren't going anywhere.

So we've established that to square up the equity for all clubs, that can't be done without detriment to foundation clubs, even folding. It's obvious the AFL wouldn't view that as a viable option.

This is what the NV fan wants, but they aren't gonna get it, yet they still follow it.

IMV I think the fixture could be evened up a little and HQ wouldn't receive much back lash, as far as all the other inequities I don't think there's much that could be done without detriment.

So we either accept it or we vote with our feet and remotes.

 

[Papa G]

Vic Block buster games suck for the smaller Vic teams as they ensure that the smaller Vic teams stay smaller and are likely to shrink or grow less than the big Vic clubs in the future.

WCE are huge because of AFL licensing decisions and by their earlier admission into the AFL they have a larger share of a duopoly over a very large AFL market. In terms of broadasting and exposure, to ensure their continued success and growth, the AFL have diminished the value of streaming rights so this duopoly get all their games on FTA into their large target market. How many blockbusters would it take for your club to be willing to give up the FTA broadcasting advantage that the AFL have given them?

You might want to look again at that quote of yours about privilege and equality and consider where privilege exists and that WCE sure as hell aren't one of the clubs that you want to kill.

The Victorian Labor Government/CMFEU clearly don't really support the little guys. They stump up enough money to let them survive and build shiney new facilties for their LGBTQI teams I guess.

 

[Underarm]

View attachment 2028415

Nope, no Vic Bias. Nothing to see here.

Freo just played it's first home game in a month... followed by a period earlier this year when they went a month without a home game.

EAD VFL.

Essendon don't play another home game for a month, for the 2nd time this season.

 

[sr36]

The Victorian Labor Government/CMFEU clearly don't really support the little guys. They stump up enough money to let them survive and build shiney new facilties for their LGBTQI teams I guess.

No idea what you're on about Papa.

 

[Dan26]

We all know there is solutions, for some reason the AFL don’t want to sort it out.I have said for years there is no reason to have those big VIC clubs on the public holiday games, they get 70-80k anyway. Use the public holiday games to fixture the current big teams in the comp.
Win for all.

This is not true. You say that the teams on a public holiday would get the same crowd if it wasn't on a public holiday. Public holidays conservatively add 20-25% to the attendance, if you look at history.

There have been 17 home and away games in history with crowds of over 90,000 and only three of those were not on a public holiday.

 

[Blue1980]

We all know there is solutions, for some reason the AFL don’t want to sort it out.I have said for years there is no reason to have those big VIC clubs on the public holiday games, they get 70-80k anyway. Use the public holiday games to fixture the current big teams in the comp.
Win for all.

They tried north playing a non big 4 side on Good Friday, didn’t work.

 

[LoungeLizard]

I've watched it, and you and everyone else have pointed out the points in that video before it was posted.

As for your question Do the big VIC clubs put pressure on them to not change things?

I wouldn't be surprised, it advantages them, they certainly wouldn't be advocating for change.

And that's the crux of the issue, the big 4 vic clubs are cash cows for HQ, hence we get fixtures that benefit them, why? Because those 4 clubs, regardless of how they're performing on field, they bring in fan and member $, via the gate and the TV. And the smaller clubs, whether vic or not miss out. It's a catch 22.

In saying that, North a small club have around 50k members, as bad as they've been they've never had as many members, are those members gluttons for punishment?

As the wookie pointed out earlier as long as HQ can distribute funds to keep the smaller clubs alive, those smaller clubs aren't going anywhere.

So we've established that to square up the equity for all clubs, that can't be done without detriment to foundation clubs, even folding. It's obvious the AFL wouldn't view that as a viable option.

This is what the NV fan wants, but they aren't gonna get it, yet they still follow it.

IMV I think the fixture could be evened up a little and HQ wouldn't receive much back lash, as far as all the other inequities I don't think there's much that could be done without detriment.

So we either accept it or we vote with our feet and remotes.

If we get rid of the double ups that happen every year, clubs like North,St.Kilda, Bulldogs etc, will benefit, the Big Vic sides and the non-Vics don't, I actually think it makes the non-Vics worse off.

 

[Blue1980]

Just looking at the remaining fixtures for some of the sides currently in the 8.

Essendon play at either Marvel or MCG for the next 8 weeks, with their only interstate trip vs Brisbane in the last round.

Collingwood have 7 of their remaining 9 games at the MCG with the other two being trips to QLD and the SCG.

Carlton also have 7 of their remaining 9 games at either Marvel or MCG with the other two at Optus and ENGIE.

Meanwhile you look at a club like GWS who have to play in 6 different stadiums in their last 9 games including places like Canberra and Ballarat.

Very fair.

Err Canberra is a home ground of the Giants, it’s their choice to play there.

 

[Blue1980]

Carlton only have one of their remaining games against a non-Victorian team in Melbourne.

Of the 6 neutral field games, 5 are at grounds the opposition plays at more frequently than we do.

If the finals were to start today and results went on seeding, Carlton in second spot would face a neutral field semi final (against Essendon) and then a neutral field preliminary final (against Collingwood). That's an absolutely horrible proposition for a team that hasn't made a grand final in more than two decades.

Somehow non victorians have reduced the entirity of fixture disparity down to whether a team.is travelling, ignore everything else and them whinge about bias on that basis alone

Swings and roundabouts, we were lucky enough to get a neutral final v Melbourne last year.

Basically it all largely evens out except for the GF.

 

[Blue1980]

Tbh, people keep harping on about competitive advantage but there's also this thing called fans who want to attend the game. Everyone can keep harping on about bias this and bias that, but there's actual people who pay money, make the travel in, and get behind their team - these people specifically should not be disrespected so heavily.

The way it's panned out for Freo, we've had two 4 week blocks where we got one home game each block.

So Essendon, 5 of their twelve on the road hey? How about 7 of the 12 are in Victoria so your fans can watch your team. Let alone the 9 in a row to finish off the season.

For the most part I've been fine with the H&A alternate for the last two decades for, you plan your weekend accordingly... hell I actually got a little bit annoyed when Freo started getting night games because it broke my routine. But this year? It's been atrocious, but you lot are so far up your own behinds that you can't see how the fixture affects others.

Must be nice getting the chance to have 9 games in a row in Victoria, we'd be lucky to get three in row in WA (think it happened during Covid times, and yeah it was nice honestly but naturally impossible to replicate).

Is there a way to fix it? Of course there is, whoever designed the fixture broke it so they most certainly can fix it. End of the day would be best for all if the AFL came up a public methodology of how they design the fixture.

Now if anyone from Victoria genuinely thinks me being annoyed I've had to wait three weeks for one home game (twice this season) is an unreasonable of me then perhaps they need to assess their several depleted empathy levels.

How does it get fixed? Do you want 16 home games? Nuke Victoria so the population is less and can’t support as many sides?

If you have 2 4 week blocks where you have 1 home game, then surely it means you get other blocks where you get 3 out of 4?

 

[TiAn_]

Just looking at the remaining fixtures for some of the sides currently in the 8.

Essendon play at either Marvel or MCG for the next 8 weeks, with their only interstate trip vs Brisbane in the last round.

Collingwood have 7 of their remaining 9 games at the MCG with the other two being trips to QLD and the SCG.

Carlton also have 7 of their remaining 9 games at either Marvel or MCG with the other two at Optus and ENGIE.

Meanwhile you look at a club like GWS who have to play in 6 different stadiums in their last 9 games including places like Canberra and Ballarat.

Very fair.

So? The Bulldogs have to play in 5 different stadiums in our last 9, only counting Adelaide Oval once, although we have to play there twice.

 

[AstonSouffle]

How does it get fixed? Do you want 16 home games? Nuke Victoria so the population is less and can’t support as many sides?

If you have 2 4 week blocks where you have 1 home game, then surely it means you get other blocks where you get 3 out of 4?

Man relax lol, I knew thunder and fury would come when I said this - obviously Perth is far away, I know this because I get to fly in and out of it a lot lol. Hell it's far way from places within it's own state let alone the east coast. I don't want 16 home games, I want home and away so I can go to the footy every two weeks.

Also it's ironic a Carlton supporter said this, guess where Freo's home game in round 4 was between 3 and 7? Against Carlton in Adelaide - FMD aha. So 4, 5 and 6 (sort of as this was West Coast which was at Optus).

But there's one instance we get two home games in a row, round 19 and 20.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

This is not true. You say that the teams on a public holiday would get the same crowd if it wasn't on a public holiday. Public holidays conservatively add 20-25% to the attendance, if you look at history.

There have been 17 home and away games in history with crowds of over 90,000 and only three of those were not on a public holiday.

They don’t need to get 90k, 60-70k is fantastic. Add another 50-60k on Anzac Day between the Hawks and the Saints and they are getting more people to the footy.
It’s a no brainer.

 

[Blue1980]

Man relax lol, I knew thunder and fury would come when I said this - obviously Perth is far away, I know this because I get to fly in and out of it a lot lol. Hell it's far way from places within it's own state let alone the east coast. I don't want 16 home games, I want home and away so I can go to the footy every two weeks.

Also it's ironic a Carlton supporter said this, guess where Freo's home game in round 4 was between 3 and 7? Against Carlton in Adelaide - FMD aha. So 4, 5 and 6 (sort of as this was West Coast which was at Optus).

But there's one instance we get two home games in a row, round 19 and 20.

Gather round doesn’t count as a home game for anyone, everyone gets 11 home and away, gather round neutral.

FWIW the fixture seems rather random this year in a lot of ways, more to do with the additional byes, when sides play each other etc.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

If we get rid of the double ups that happen every year, clubs like North,St.Kilda, Bulldogs etc, will benefit, the Big Vic sides and the non-Vics don't, I actually think it makes the non-Vics worse off.

The AFL can do a fixture that all sides play each other the sane amount of time over a 4-5 year period. The NBA do this, they do not fixture around the Celtics and the Lakers because it is not fair. Every team must be treated the same.
It stupid as shown in the video to lock in blockbusters. The big teams do t need those days as they will get a big crowd anyway. Use those days to grow smaller clubs.
It really is not complicated. Will the AFL do anything, probably not but they really are brainless.

 

[LoungeLizard]

The AFL can do a fixture that all sides play each other the sane amount of time over a 4-5 year period. The NBA do this, they do not fixture around the Celtics and the Lakers because it is not fair. Every team must be treated the same.
It stupid as shown in the video to lock in blockbusters. The big teams do t need those days as they will get a big crowd anyway. Use those days to grow smaller clubs.
It really is not complicated. Will the AFL do anything, probably not but they really are brainless.

I agree, they can do it they want, what I was pointing out is, I think it will hurt non-Vic sides more if they do.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I've watched it, and you and everyone else have pointed out the points in that video before it was posted.

As for your question Do the big VIC clubs put pressure on them to not change things?

I wouldn't be surprised, it advantages them, they certainly wouldn't be advocating for change.

And that's the crux of the issue, the big 4 vic clubs are cash cows for HQ, hence we get fixtures that benefit them, why? Because those 4 clubs, regardless of how they're performing on field, they bring in fan and member $, via the gate and the TV. And the smaller clubs, whether vic or not miss out. It's a catch 22.

In saying that, North a small club have around 50k members, as bad as they've been they've never had as many members, are those members gluttons for punishment?

As the wookie pointed out earlier as long as HQ can distribute funds to keep the smaller clubs alive, those smaller clubs aren't going anywhere.

So we've established that to square up the equity for all clubs, that can't be done without detriment to foundation clubs, even folding. It's obvious the AFL wouldn't view that as a viable option.

This is what the NV fan wants, but they aren't gonna get it, yet they still follow it.

IMV I think the fixture could be evened up a little and HQ wouldn't receive much back lash, as far as all the other inequities I don't think there's much that could be done without detriment.

So we either accept it or we vote with our feet and remotes.

The video clearly showed that the public holiday match does not need to be the pies v Bombers. They can play each other on the Saturday and get 60-70k. Then in the Monday two other clubs can get 60-70 on the Public holiday and the AFl make more money than ever. The big clubs don’t need to be used to make money, they bring it in anyway. Other clubs have proved over the years they can draw good crowds.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I agree, they can do it they want, what I was pointing out is, I think it will hurt non-Vic sides more if they do.

Maybe it would mate, but maybe everyone needs to get passed that. Fairness first and if the AFL did what the nBA do then no one can really complain.

 

[ParapMarkets]

Gather round doesn’t count as a home game for anyone, everyone gets 11 home and away, gather round neutral.

Except for the SA teams?

 

[LoungeLizard]

Maybe it would mate, but maybe everyone needs to get passed that. Fairness first and if the AFL did what the nBA do then no one can really complain.

And how do you think this thread goes if you lose a derby?

 

[Dan26]

They don’t need to get 90k, 60-70k is fantastic. Add another 50-60k on Anzac Day between the Hawks and the Saints and they are getting more people to the footy.
It’s a no brainer.

The last Anzac Day game that didn’t feature Collingwood or Essendon was back in 1994 and it was between a struggling Richmond and St.kilda at Waverley in a match that would normally have got about 25,000. It drew 39,000.

Adding 25%(ish) to the crowd to an average game will get less than adding 25% to the crowd between two big teams.

Thats why the bigger clubs play on public holiday. The 25% increase results in a larger crowd than a 25% increase to a match between, say, St.Kilda and Hawthorn.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

And how do you think this thread goes if you lose a derby?

Seriously the double up derby is nit that important to the fans. They would prefer a fair comp.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

The last Anzac Day game that didn’t feature Collingwood or Essendon was back in 1994 and it was between a struggling Richmond and St.kilda at Waverley in a match that would normally have got about 25,000. It drew 39,000.

Adding 25%(ish) to the crowd to an average game will get less than adding 25% to the crowd between two big teams.

Thats why the bigger clubs play on public holiday. The 25% increase results in a larger crowd than a 25% increase to a match between, say, St.Kilda and Hawthorn.

But a smart organisation won’t fixture two struggling teams, they will fixture two teams that are up and about.

 

[JackOutback]

If you have not watched the video a few posts back about the AFL then do yourself a favour and watch it. Opened my eyes a bit.



There is heaps the AFL can and should do but simply are refusing to do. Do the big VIC clubs put pressure on them to not change things? Such simple solutions yet not being done.

Good watch guys

Good video, didn't think I was going to hang around for the full 40 minutes but did so in the end. It lays bare the deliberate fixing of the draw to benefit some teams, the myth of the need for blockbusters between certain teams on certain teams and, in particular, how they screw WA teams by compounding travel issues with poor rest/preparation time.

It also shows how you can alleviate the issues somewhat by rotating the draw across several years to ensure everyone plays everyone as fairly as possible. No more guaranteed double-ups. Hell, having years where you play a rival only once may create more anticipation.

 

[Dan26]

But a smart organisation won’t fixture two struggling teams, they will fixture two teams that are up and about.

The point I’m making is that the upside of a 25% crowd increase between two big teams is bigger than a 25% crowd increase between two smaller teams.