Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion Part 2

[doppleganger]

I’m not sure what isn’t getting through your thick skull. It’s not the act of travelling alone, it’s the act of travelling consistently over a long season, particularly for the WA teams.
All experts agree that travelling every second week makes it more difficult.

Are you going to pull out an NBA article that talks to fatigue if travelling and playing with less than 72 hours rest again?

AFL teams have a H&A season that started of March 7th and will finish Sunday August 25th, a 6 month period.

GC has the most games outside their state, with 13 (but they dont travel 13 times as they stay for some of their trips), and Coll has least games outside of Melbourne with 6...but some Melbourne teams have 11 games outside Melbourne.

So across the board, you are talking what 4 extra across a 6 month period.

Travel isnt the big issue, ground advantage is the issue.

 

[sr36]

So what? You might travel every second week, but you also HOST a travelling side every second week.

FREMANTLE:
10 games where they hosted a travelling team
9 games where they travelled to an opponents ground
4 neutral games (two versus WCE, one vs Carl, and one vs Melb)

10 minus 9 equals +1 travel advantage


ESSENDON
My team, the Bombers:
6 games where they host a travelling team
6 games where they travel to an opponents home ground
11 neutral games

6 minus 6 equals +0 travel advantage

Stop sooking. Beta loser sooks pretending to be victims. Be a man and just deal with it, instead of pretending that you are so hard done by. Do you need a cuddle?

It's the simple art of looking at one aspect of the draw and ignoring all others to come up with a distorted view.

Apparently Collingwood had the easiest draw known to man this year.
13 neutral venue games. 5 with an advantage and 5 with a disadvantage somehow nets out to a massive advantage. I'm not really sure how, but apparently it's an advantage so big that it massively outweighs playing no double ups against teams in the bottom 6...

 

[Dan26]

I’m not sure what isn’t getting through your thick skull. It’s not the act of travelling alone, it’s the act of travelling consistently over a long season, particularly for the WA teams.

You're biased. There is NO evidence that is true. It's a narrative that is not supported by the facts. Why can't you get that through your biased thick skull? How dumb do you have to be to ignore the facts, and only go by your assumptions?

Just because you assume it is true doesn't mean it is true,

Non-Vic sides make up about 40% if the teams and they have won nearly 40% of the premierships. That destroys your assumption right there. The FACTS don't support baseless assumptions.

Show some actual factual based evidence that travelling more affects your ability to win the premiership? You can't because there is literally no evidence. Non-Vic teams are 40% of the teams in the AFL and they've won about 40% of the premierships over 30 years.

Whilst it may be a disadvantage to travel more it is also an ADVANTAGE to host a travelling side for half your games. All the advantages and disadvantages cancel out which is why non-Vic teams are able to win about 40% of the premierships.

Stop sooking. You are not victims. You're just sooks.

 

[JackOutback]

You're biased. There is NO evidence that is true. It's a narrative that is not supported by the facts. Why can't you get that through your biased thick skull? How dumb do you have to be to ignore the facts, and only go by your assumptions?

Just because you assume it is true doesn't mean it is true,

Non-Vic sides make up about 40% if the teams and they have won nearly 40% of the premierships. That destroys your assumption right there. The FACTS don't support baseless assumptions.

Show some actual factual based evidence that travelling more affects your ability to win the premiership? You can't because there is literally no evidence. Non-Vic teams are 40% of the teams in the AFL and they've won about 40% of the premierships over 30 years.

Whilst it may be a disadvantage to travel more it is also an ADVANTAGE to host a travelling side for half your games. All the advantages and disadvantages cancel out which is why non-Vic teams are able to win about 40% of the premierships.

Stop sooking. You are not victims. You're just sooks.

You’re also biased. Heavily and obviously so.

 

[Dan26]

You’re also biased. Heavily and obviously so.

No I'm not. Just saying it doesn't make it so. In fact I hate the other Victorian based teams. How could that possible make me biased?

All I have done is quote facts. That's it. I havn't made baseless assumptions about travel that the facts don't support.

The baseless assumptions are that travel negatively affects that non-Victorian teams. The facts that don't support this assumption are that the Non-Vic teams make up about 40% of the teams and have won 40% of the premierships.

The baseless assumptions are that the non-Vic teams are negatively affected on Grand Final day. The facts show that the record is close to 50-50 (10-9) over the last 30 years when a Vic team plays a non-Vic team.

Why are the non-Vic sooks in this thread so biased? Because you talk about the amount of travel (10 times per year) but ignore the fact that you HOST a travelling team the same number of times, which over 30 years has resulted in non-Vic teams winning about 40% of the premierships, which statistically is exactly what they should win.

Stop being biased. Stop being a sook. Look at the facts and base your opinion on the facts alone.

DON'T assume.

 

[Colonial]

The baseless assumptions are that travel negatively affects that non-Victorian teams.

The baseless assumptions are that the non-Vic teams are negatively affected on Grand Final day.

And yet you call non Vics biased. Ffs

Even the most state loyal Vics will tell you that travel and the GF are advantages, then usually go into the “build a 100k stadium” argument.

 

[Dan26]

And yet you call non Vics biased. Ffs

Even the most state loyal Vics will tell you that travel and the GF are advantages, then usually go into the “build a 100k stadium” argument.

And yet you call non Vics biased. Ffs

Even the most state loyal Vics will tell you that travel and the GF are advantages, then usually go into the “build a 100k stadium” argument.

Then explain why the Grand Final record between Vic and non-Vic teams is about 50-50

Explain why non-Vic teams make up about 40% of the teams and win 40% of the premierships. Go on... explain it. Give it a go genius.

I don't have to defend myself. YOU lot are the ones making baseless assumptions and ignoring what the facts have shown for 30 years. The bias you are showing is simply extraordinary. You TOTALLY ignore what the facts say. Even now, your post mentions travel. I have mentioned many times that travelling is a disadvantage, but I have also mentioned that HOSTING a travelling team is also a huge advantage that the Victorian teams don't get as often.

Your ridiculous overt bias sees you mention the travel but never the fact that you host a travelling time every second week.

The hypocrisy of the idiotic bias shown here is extraordinary.

 

[Colonial]

Then explain why the Grand Final record between Vic and non-Vic teams is about 50-50

Explain why non-Vic teams make up about 40% of the teams and win 40% of the premierships. Go on... explain it. Give it a go genius.

I don't have to defend myself. YOU lot are the ones making baseless assumptions and ignoring what the facts have shown for 30 years. The bias you are showing is simply extraordinary. You TOTALLY ignore what the facts say. Even now, your post mentions travel. I have mentioned many times that travelling is a disadvantage, but I have also mentioned that HOSTING a travelling team is also a huge advantage that the Victorian teams don't get as often.

Your ridiculous overt bias sees you mention the travel but never the fact that you host a travelling time every second week.

The hypocrisy of the idiotic bias shown here is extraordinary.

It’s called common sense.

Some Vics, including you, literally complain about home ground advantage and now you want to say that there is none when it’s yours for a GF?
You literally say it in this same post.

And as for trying to push that being on a plane and hotels is no more difficult than being in your own home and travelling to a nearby ground. Ffs.

Stats are shit, so what if the winning ratios don’t change. It’s basic common sense.

Defend yourself?

 

[Dan26]

It’s called common sense.

Some Vics, including you, literally complain about home ground advantage and now you want to say that there is none when it’s yours for a GF?

And as for trying to push that being on a plane and hotels is no more difficult than being in your own home and travelling to a nearby ground. Ffs.

Stats are shit, so what if the winning ratios don’t change. It’s basic common sense.

I've have never complained about home ground advantage. Ever. Never ever ever. Stop lying about me. God I hate liars.

I have acknowledged that some teams have a strong home ground advantage, others do not and the ones that don't travel less.

In fact, not only is what you say here a total lie, the exact opposite is true. I have said routinely many times, that if you are good enough, you will win the premiership regardless of how much you travel.



You also said this:
"And as for trying to push that being on a plane and hotels is no more difficult than being in your own home and travelling to a nearby ground. Ffs."


You absolute liar. I have NEVER said that being on a plane is no more difficult that being in your own bed. In fact being on a plane DOES make it more difficult than not being on a plane. What I have said that the non-Vic teams get to HOST a travelling side 10 times a year and those travelling sides have to deal with travel and not being on their own bed. The Victorian sides only get this advantage a handful of times per year. These advantages and disadvantages exist for all teams and cancel each other out.

For example:
FREMANTLE:
10 games where they hosted a travelling team
9 games where they travelled to an opponents ground
4 neutral games (two versus WCE, one vs Carl, and one vs Melb)

10 minus 9 equals +1 travel advantage


ESSENDON
My team, the Bombers:
6 games where they host a travelling team
6 games where they travel to an opponents home ground
11 neutral games

6 minus 6 equals +0 travel advantage



You are a liar. You are deliberately totally misrepresenting what I am saying and you are biased.

 

[Dan26]

Stats are shit, so what if the winning ratios don’t change. It’s basic common sense.

Oh. My. God.

Astonishing. Absolutely astonishing. You have just confirmed your total bias. The facts show that non-Vic teams make up about 40% of the teams and win 40% of the premierships. This proves no advantage over a large sample size.

Your response to the facts not suiting your lies is that "stats are shit"

Oh My god. What kind of people am I dealing with here?

 

[JackOutback]

No I'm not. Just saying it doesn't make it so. In fact I hate the other Victorian based teams. How could that possible make me biased?

All I have done is quote facts. That's it. I havn't made baseless assumptions about travel that the facts don't support.

The baseless assumptions are that travel negatively affects that non-Victorian teams. The facts that don't support this assumption are that the Non-Vic teams make up about 40% of the teams and have won 40% of the premierships.

The baseless assumptions are that the non-Vic teams are negatively affected on Grand Final day. The facts show that the record is close to 50-50 (10-9) over the last 30 years when a Vic team plays a non-Vic team.

Why are the non-Vic sooks in this thread so biased? Because you talk about the amount of travel (10 times per year) but ignore the fact that you HOST a travelling team the same number of times, which over 30 years has resulted in non-Vic teams winning about 40% of the premierships, which statistically is exactly what they should win.

Stop being biased. Stop being a sook. Look at the facts and base your opinion on the facts alone.

DON'T assume.

You’re fecking hilarious. ‘I’m not biased, just ask me.’

 

[Dan26]

You’re fecking hilarious. ‘I’m not biased, just ask me.’

All I have done is provided facts, provided statistics, and shown that over a large sample size non-Vic teams (who make up about 40% of teams) win about 40% of premierships. I can't be more objective than that.

I have acknowledged travel is a factor, but unlike you lot I have ALSO acknowledged that HOSTING a travelling team is a factor.

I have stated many times that I have zero interest in the Victorian teams other than my own and would actually prefer non-Vic teams to win the premiership.

The utter hypocrisy of you lot is astounding. So often in life, the people, making the accusations about you are often that very thing that they accuse you of being. This thread shows that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

 

[JackOutback]

All I have done is provided facts, provided statistics, and shown that over a large sample size non-Vic teams (who make up about 40% of teams) win about 40% of premierships. I can't be more objective than that.

I have acknowledged travel is a factor, but unlike you lot I have ALSO acknowledged that HOSTING a travelling team is a factor.

I have stated many times that I have zero interest in the Victorian teams other than my own and would actually prefer non-Vic teams to win the premiership.

The utter hypocrisy of you lot is astounding. So often in life, the people, making the accusations about you are often that very thing that they accuse you of being. This thread shows that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I’m gonna borrow a leaf from your book.

All I’ve done is use facts, I’m not biased, you’re biased, just ask me, I don’t care about non-WA teams so everything I say shouldn’t be questioned, your hypocrisy is astounding.

 

[Dan26]

I’m gonna borrow a leaf from your book.

All I’ve done is use facts, I’m not biased, you’re biased, just ask me, I don’t care about non-WA teams so everything I say shouldn’t be questioned, your hypocrisy is astounding.

Back your assertions up with evidence. Go ahead. Prove to me there is some inherant disadvantage when non-Vic teams make up 40% of the teams and also win 40% of the premierships. That's called empirical evidence. Over 30 years.

So go ahead.... show me some stats, some facts that backs up your baseless claims.

 

[doppleganger]

It's the simple art of looking at one aspect of the draw and ignoring all others to come up with a distorted view.

Not only that, but they then lazily create two groups that dont make any sense.

This is games away from home city for 2024 (it is pretty similar every year).

GWS,GC,Geel - 14
BL - 12
WC,FREO,HAW,NM,SYD - 11
PA, AD - 10
WB - 9
MELB,STK,RICH - 8
CAR,COLL,ESS - 6

Or you could go distance travelled in 2024

FR, WC = 70k+ km
GC ~ 60k km
BL ~ 50k km
GWS, SYD, MELB, NM ~ 25-30k km
AD, PA, HAW, GEEL, RICH ~ 20-25k km
COLL, CARL, ESS, STK, WB <20k km

But off-setting that is games where teams actually have a ground advantage over their opponent. A game at your actual home ground against a team who aint from that city and plays 3 or less games at the ground

11 = AD, PA, BL
10 = SYD, WC, FR
9 = GEEL, GC, GWS
5 = RICH, STK
4 = COLL, ESS,MEL,WB
2 = CAR, HAW,NM

So when you look at travel load...WC, FR, and BL get rewarded by lots of home ground advantage games. GC especially are dudded compared to them, despite also being road warriors.

SYD,GWS,GEEL,NM,HAW and MELB are next group in terms of travel impost. Geel, GWS and Syd get rewarded with 9 or 10 games with ground advantage, compared to just 2-4 for the Melbourne based teams.

Then you have the SA teams, who have a smaller travel load than some VIC teams but somehow get most home ground advantage games with 11.

And then you have the Melbourne based teams, who dont travel but have less than 5 games with a home ground advantage.

The SA sooks like to align themselves with WA and QLD teams as road warriors, which is a laugh.

The H&A ladder results highlight a much bigger correlation to home ground advantage games than how far you travel.

 

[LoungeLizard]

I’m gonna borrow a leaf from your book.

All I’ve done is use facts, I’m not biased, you’re biased, just ask me, I don’t care about non-WA teams so everything I say shouldn’t be questioned, your hypocrisy is astounding.

This is you isn't it?
I don't think you have provided 1 piece of evidence in this thread except, so and so said so.

Lot's of other people have come up with stats to go with their points, but not you.

So what is it, can you provide anything at all?

Or just, "so and so said it, so it must be true"

Or, maybe 1 of your childish giffs?

 

[sr36]

Not only that, but they then lazily create two groups that dont make any sense.

This is games away from home city for 2024 (it is pretty similar every year).

GWS,GC,Geel - 14
BL - 12
WC,FREO,HAW,NM,SYD - 11
PA, AD - 10
WB - 9
MELB,STK,RICH - 8
CAR,COLL,ESS - 6

Or you could go distance travelled in 2024

FR, WC = 70k+ km
GC ~ 60k km
BL ~ 50k km
GWS, SYD, MELB, NM ~ 25-30k km
AD, PA, HAW, GEEL, RICH ~ 20-25k km
COLL, CARL, ESS, STK, WB <20k km

But off-setting that is games where teams actually have a ground advantage over their opponent. A game at your actual home ground against a team who aint from that city and plays 3 or less games at the ground

11 = AD, PA, BL
10 = SYD, WC, FR
9 = GEEL, GC, GWS
5 = RICH, STK
4 = COLL, ESS,MEL,WB
2 = CAR, HAW,NM

So when you look at travel load...WC, FR, and BL get rewarded by lots of home ground advantage games. GC especially are dudded compared to them, despite also being road warriors.

SYD,GWS,GEEL,NM,HAW and MELB are next group in terms of travel impost. Geel, GWS and Syd get rewarded with 9 or 10 games with ground advantage, compared to just 2-4 for the Melbourne based teams.

Then you have the SA teams, who have a smaller travel load than some VIC teams but somehow get most home ground advantage games with 11.

And then you have the Melbourne based teams, who dont travel but have less than 5 games with a home ground advantage.

The SA sooks like to align themselves with WA and QLD teams as road warriors, which is a laugh.

The H&A ladder results highlight a much bigger correlation to home ground advantage games than how far you travel.

You need to include disadvantage games.

It works out even as most teams have a similar number of advantage games as disadvantage games.

It's the luck of who you play twice that has the biggest impact on how easy or hard your draw is. Switch a couple of Collingwood's double up teams from Hawthorn and Sydney to bottom 6 teams (we didn't play any double ups against bottom 6 teams) and we would have been pushing top 4 rather than missing the finals.

 

[Waspy79]

Geelong 24 free kicks to 7 today as the league desperately attempts to get them a home final

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Geelong 24 free kicks to 7 today as the league desperately attempts to get them a home final

Nah man, only Eagles crowds get noise of affirmation.

 

[doppleganger]

You need to include disadvantage games.

Well the lazy VICBias position is any game away from your city is a disadvantage game.

I listed them already.

It works out even as most teams have a similar number of advantage games as disadvantage games.

If you look more closely, and focus on actual ground it isn't even.

Non-Melbourne teams get heaps of games with a true home ground advantage, but they play "away" games where their opponent is also "away from home", or at grounds they play 4-6 times so also have ground familiarity.

That is why teams who play majority of games away from Melbourne teams, teams that enjoy a home ground advantage dominate the H&A ladder.

Hawthorn hv a ground advantage in Tassie, travel isnt as important as ground advantage.

IIt's the luck of who you play twice that has the biggest impact on how easy or hard your draw is. Switch a couple of Collingwood's double up teams from Hawthorn and Sydney to bottom 6 teams (we didn't play any double ups against bottom 6 teams) and we would have been pushing top 4 rather than missing the finals.

That is a different factor, which impacts individual seasons.

But long term H&A ladder shows if you want to finish top2, top4 you want to have a home ground advantage and not be stuck in Melbourne playing neutral games.

 

[JackOutback]

This is you isn't it?
I don't think you have provided 1 piece of evidence in this thread except, so and so said so.

Lot's of other people have come up with stats to go with their points, but not you.

So what is it, can you provide anything at all?

Or just, "so and so said it, so it must be true"

Or, maybe 1 of your childish giffs?

 

[doppleganger]

Nah man, only Eagles crowds get noise of affirmation.

Any stadium that is full and 95% going for a single team provides the noise of affirmation.

Geelong enjoy one of the strongest home ground advantages in the league.

 

[sr36]

But long term H&A ladder shows if you want to finish top2, top4 you want to have a home ground advantage and not be stuck in Melbourne playing neutral games.

It's skewed by the cats.

Cats have a positive ratio of adv to disadvantage games. Thus there many top 2 and 4 skew it. They've also had teams jam packed with elite players so that skews it further.

There seems little doubt that having more games where you're advantaged than disadvantaged is beneficial, but that's not the case for most non-vic teams (except for gether round changing it for the last year's)

You'd be better off taking cats out of the comparison. I think you'll find it's been pretty even for Melb vs non-vic in terms of ladder positions. The extra home ground advantage is cancelled out by extra home ground disadvantage.

 

[LoungeLizard]

As I thought another childish giff.

You like to have a go a people don't you, but you never provide a thing that has anything to do with the thread.

So and so said so, doesn't count, why you ask?

Well one of the so and so's coached Adelaide, now he is back at WC, he is saying travel is bad, but while he coached Adelaide he actually took them on a holiday to the Gold Coast during finals, that doesn't really sound like he thinks travel is bad, does it?

 

[Freomaniac]

Until we also add travel and the automatic home state GF.

I would love a grand final in Homebush in NSW or Hobart in Tassie or even one in Alice Springs in Northern Territory! LoL