victoria's new P-plate laws

[Underdog]

You are probably right though whats the comparison/statistics of P plater accidents to fully licenced driver accidents?

Also these laws are targeted at reducing deaths in the P plater bracket. If passenger/vehicle and time restrictions are not the answer, what would you suggest?

The problem stems from mental aspects not physical. If a bloke wants to be a hoon...driving a 4 cylinder isn't going to stop him from being one.

The government are trying to use these tactics to push more young drivers off the roads and make the figures misleadingly positive rather then approach the real issues that relate to law enforcement.

 

[Bosun]

The problem stems from mental aspects not physical. If a bloke wants to be a hoon...driving a 4 cylinder isn't going to stop him from being one.

The government are trying to use these tactics to push more young drivers off the roads and make the figures misleadingly positive rather then approach the real issues that relate to law enforcement.

Interesting point. Do you think they are going for the PR aspect such as Nixon did with drugs? (classifying drug use as a health issue not crime hence the reduction in offences).

How would you feel about compulsory defensive driving courses for all P platers upon obtaining their licence?

 

[Underdog]

yeah, it's more PR then solving the problem. Essentially they are making it tougher for P-platers to be on the roads...less people on the roads = less deaths, regardless of whether they were caused by hoons in V8s or not.

Whilst that does save lives, it is NOT solving the problem but rather masking it with distorted figures.

I think a compulsory defensive driving course may be handy but I have never attended one and as such, can't comment on it's worth.

 

[mr_cellotape]

I wasnt referring to passenger nor time restrictions rather vehicle power. I dont think restricting passengers is a particularly good or enforcable law.

Putting restrictions on vehicle power isn't a "good or enforcable (sic) law" either. It's garbage intended to make people feel better yet has no actually effect. In fact, as I already said, it inconveniences law-abiding people.

I'd accept a provision that permits a young driver to drive a more powerful car owned by their parents as long as a parent is actually in the car. Other than that restrictions on the types of car you can drive should exist (and not just for P-platers - for anyone until they've proven they can drive a lower class of car within the limit first).

Well yeah, if you're in favour of inconveniencing law-abiding citizens then I'm sure that idea is very appealing to you. For those of us who believe the majority of people should not be stuffed around because of the stupidity of a few, it's ridiculous.

 

[Mr Q]

The problem stems from mental aspects not physical. If a bloke wants to be a hoon...driving a 4 cylinder isn't going to stop him from being one.

Bullshit. Sure, some people will hoon in any type of vehicle they can get their hands on. But a substantial number won't bother if they're in cars where the whole impact is minimised by the fact the car isn't capable of doing what they want. Plus, the fact the car's not capable minimises the danger they pose to other drivers on the road. Taking road-racing style cars off the most likely road-racing types is certain to reduce the number of such activities.

If other P-platers don't like it - blame the idiots (present and past) that have made changes necessary. Anyway, as I said, it should be extended to the entire population, not just P-platers. If you can't prove you can drive a normal car within the law, you sure as hell shouldn't get access to more powerful models. I've posted this before, but it's what I think should be done:

I don't know about curfews, maybe a good idea, maybe not, but I'm certainly of the belief that there should be restrictions on what sort of cars people can drive. For instance

P-platers: unmodified four cylinder (or less ) cars, without any performance modifications.

Once someone has their initial licence, they can move up a class after having completed three consecutive years of safe driving.

C1: basic licence (ie the P plate one). Basic 4 cylinder cars only, no modifications, turbocharging or other performance features.
C2: Standard model 4 and 6 cylinder cars, including all family cars. Eligible after three years of safe driving (ie three years after initial "Ps")
C3: Standard 4 and 6 cylinder cars, including luxury models. Eligible after six years of safe driving.
C4: V8s, sports models, turbocharged models, four wheel drives, cars with modifications. Eligible after nine years of safe driving, must pass an advanced driving test to prove capable of handling the car. Holders of C4 class licences will be automatically demoted to C3 permanently if over any three year period they would not qualify as safe drivers.

If anyone loses their licence in total, they are no longer eligible for any licence above a C2 for life.

Safe driving would consist of no more than 4 demerit points a year and no more than three offenses of any kind since gaining the previous class of licence. Offenses include anything that would gain demerits or worse.

So if you drive within the rules, you can get C1 at 17, C2 at 20, C3 at 23 and C4 at 26, by which time you're a fairly experienced driver, probably capable of handling performance vehicles.

There should also be subclasses available for restricted driving at higher classes, ie being able to drive work vehicles during work time or parent's cars under parental supervision (driving your drunk parents home would qualify). These should be subject to passing a test in that class of car before gaining the licence, and the holder cannot hold the registration for that vehicle until they qualify for that class of licence in full, and should require less than 0.01 blood/alcohol level.

I'd also suggest that the incentive of being able to get to the more powerful car classes might act as an incentive to potential hoons to behave within the law - and hopefully that might become habit forming.

 

[Mr Q]

Putting restrictions on vehicle power isn't a "good or enforcable (sic) law" either. It's garbage intended to make people feel better yet has no actually effect. In fact, as I already said, it inconveniences law-abiding people.

Of course it's enforceable. If someone's on their Ps and they're driving a HSV ute, they're in breach of the law, and can be removed from the vehicle.

Well yeah, if you're in favour of inconveniencing law-abiding citizens then I'm sure that idea is very appealing to you. For those of us who believe the majority of people should not be stuffed around because of the stupidity of a few, it's ridiculous.

No, I'm in favour of protecting law-abiding citizens from ********s. If that means inconveniencing groups that have very high ********:driver ratios - such as P-platers and drivers with poor driving records, then I have absolutely no problem with that whatsoever.

 

[Todd_Gack]

The reason p-platers are the scapegoats, is because they're easily identifiable - they have 2 giant P's on the car. If some random car cuts you off or whatever - its RAWR WHAT A BASTARD. If its a P plater its RAWR DAMN P PLATERS THEY SHOULDNT EVEN BE DRIVING

Btw, what is your opinion on following the speed limit in the right hand lane? If its 100km/h and you go 100 is that ok? Because thats what I do on the freeway and I get honked at and given the finger. I told my father about this once and he said ppl like me (who follow the speed limit in the right hand lane) shouldnt drive. No, I'm not kidding

 

[mr_cellotape]

Of course it's enforceable. If someone's on their Ps and they're driving a HSV ute, they're in breach of the law, and can be removed from the vehicle.

What a draconian bunch of crap that would be.

No, I'm in favour of protecting law-abiding citizens from ********s.

No you're not. Your absurd 'OMG teh young drivers!!11111" hysteria demonstrates that.

If that means inconveniencing groups that have very high ********:driver ratios - such as P-platers and drivers with poor driving records, then I have absolutely no problem with that whatsoever.

Cool, so you admit you're a wowser who wants to keep those scary younguns off the road, with no regard for those who do nothing wrong.

Good to see this whole pre-emptive form of law enforcement has pervaded something as straight-forward as road rules.

 

[Bosun]

Putting restrictions on vehicle power isn't a "good or enforcable (sic) law" either. It's garbage intended to make people feel better yet has no actually effect. In fact, as I already said, it inconveniences law-abiding people.

If the police cant enforce vehicle restriction laws, then we need a new police force. How can it not be enforcable? It cannot be hard to spot P platers in turbo charged WRX's

 

[Underdog]

take the P-plates down?

 

[Niximus]

I don't think the solution is banning the all to stop the bad ones but rather much harsher penalties for all road users being unsafe. Take away their licences for 3 years and if they get caught while disqualified then jail.

 

[Daytripper]

Its not fair but unfortunately a stupid minority have spoiled it for everybody else. I can understand how some of you kids feel but its only for one year.

If this law saves just one life then it would have been worth it.

 

[Borry]

Btw, what is your opinion on following the speed limit in the right hand lane? If its 100km/h and you go 100 is that ok? Because thats what I do on the freeway and I get honked at and given the finger. I told my father about this once and he said ppl like me (who follow the speed limit in the right hand lane) shouldnt drive. No, I'm not kidding

Theres obviously so many stupid people out there who don't get it. They think that just because it's the overtaking lane it's for those who need to go over the speed limit. The speed limit still applies to the right lane.

Proves that not only P platers are idiots. We have plenty of older people who only want to obey the road rules only when and where it suits them.

 

[mr_cellotape]

If the police cant enforce vehicle restriction laws, then we need a new police force.

That's bloody hilarious. Apply that to any of the other laws and you'll understand how stupid that statement is.

How can it not be enforcable? It cannot be hard to spot P platers in turbo charged WRX's

Oh yeah I'd love to see everybody who drives a car with a big engine getting pulled over on the off chance that the driver is under the age restriction. I can't see any possible way that this would waste police time and inconvenience innocent poeple

 

[Underdog]

Its not fair but unfortunately a stupid minority have spoiled it for everybody else. I can understand how some of you kids feel but its only for one year.

If this law saves just one life then it would have been worth it.

why not ban motorised transport altogether...imagine the amount of lives that would be saved!!!

 

[Daytripper]

Oh yeah I'd love to see everybody who drives a car with a big engine getting pulled over on the off chance that the driver is under the age restriction. I can't see any possible way that this would waste police time and inconvenience innocent poeple

It wouldn't be 'everybody.
It would be everyone wearing a P Plate.

 

[Todd_Gack]

why not ban motorised transport altogether...imagine the amount of lives that would be saved!!!

No more road fatalities ever again. Underdog for PM!

 

[Daytripper]

why not ban motorised transport altogether...imagine the amount of lives that would be saved!!!

Ridiculous argument.

 

[Todd_Gack]

Ridiculous argument.

Why? Are you saying you driving a car is more important that saving human lives?

 

[carntheroos4eva]

I think that the new laws don't go far enough. I reckon that whoever it is that damages the roads should be made to pay for the damage they have done.
Also I reckon that people who are on their P's shouldn't be allowed on the roads themselves unless they are with a qualified instructor. It will teach these idiots who think that hooning is cool, that it's not and that they have to learn to look after the road as well as any passengers in their car.

 

[Adz]

Police don't have the right to ask passengers for ID.

 

[Todd_Gack]

Also I reckon that people who are on their P's shouldn't be allowed on the roads themselves unless they are with a qualified instructor. It will teach these idiots who think that hooning is cool, that it's not and that they have to learn to look after the road as well as any passengers in their car.

They already have that. Its called being on L's

 

[ripitup27]

-There are already restrictions on how powerful your engine can be for P Platers. I wanted to by my brothers VL Commodore but couldn't because it was just over the limit.

-As someone mentioned earlier, there goes the designated driver idea.

-If 5 people want to go in one car, and now can't, that means there are four extra cars on the road. This increases the chances of accidents and congestion.

-My friends who live on res at uni have to drive to class to get to another campus. With these laws enforced, they can't do that anymore.

 

[mr_cellotape]

It wouldn't be 'everybody.
It would be everyone wearing a P Plate.

So young people driving cars that exceed the 'power' (for lack of a better term) limit would put their visible P-plates onto said car before driving it? Riiiiight.

It will teach these idiots who think that hooning is cool, that it's not and that they have to learn to look after the road as well as any passengers in their car.

I humbly request one ticket to whatever fantasy land it is that you live in. Sounds like a lovely place.

 

[Todd_Gack]

^^^ I think sarcasm was implied.

Sorry, its hard to tell in this thread