victoria's new P-plate laws

[Marns]

Great idea and I hope the Cops enforce it hard.
The number of idiot P platers flirting with death Ive come across over the past year is disturbing to say the least.Maybe we should lift the driving age to 20 as well.

Why don't we also lift the legal drinking age to 21?

"Mature" drivers do stupid things on the road, just as some P-platers do. Why not ban cars altogether? That'll save lives I'm sure.

A stupid law that will impact the majority of young drivers who are responsible.

Yep. The idiots that speed are not going to take note of these laws, they'll still see themselves outside of the law, as they do now.
This is going to hurt the good, responsible young drivers more than anyone else.
Great to see our politicians are in touch with society.

 

[Mr Q]

I would say the vast majority of this would be attributed to driving inexperience. The 'excessive speed' of many incidents isn't necessarily over the speed limit but often just too fast for conditions (weather, road, car) that a inexperienced P plate driver hasn't read correctly. I don't believe there are any more knucklehead P platers out there than any other driving group .

No, I'd suggest there are. It's like any situation - particularly among males. Where general maturity would cause someone in their 30s, 40s, 50s etc to just move on, the 18-24 group are much more likely to go in all gung ho. It's always been that way, and likely always will. The feeling of invulnerability that comes with that age group is natural, but it does result in idiot behaviour in many circumstances - including on the road. It's not universal, but it does result in increased risk-taking behaviour, and thus more "knucklehead" behaviour.

 

[me5556]

Its not fair but unfortunately a stupid minority have spoiled it for everybody else. I can understand how some of you kids feel but its only for one year.

If this law saves just one life then it would have been worth it.

but now instead of p platers car pooling they will be more likly to be driving drunk, the other thing is that p platers are more likley to be putting people in the boots.

there could be in fact more deaths with this new law

the only thing this law is going to help is hooning, but who is to say that after there first year they will do it anyways or mabie even more

a very stupid law

 

[High Ryder]

Further onto this, the driving tests as of July 1 will be 50 min tests which require all parkings to be completed as well as driving on a freeway. Still only the 9 points allowed as well, going to be ____ing difficult to pass.

 

[Nardz]

funnily enough half of the heroes in hotted up cars won't wanna carry more than one passenger as their lowered car won't like it.

The passenger restriction is a stupid thing to do though. My P-plater years were spent going out 3-4 times a week and someone would have to drive, without drinking, with a full car load to get us there/home.

 

[ReDerZZ!]

1. Driving under the limit is legal, and has a much lower impact in an accident. Driving over the limit is neither.

2. P-platers have a much higher rate of accidents (whether causing death or not) than any other class of driver on the road. That's why they have to wear P-plates, so other drivers can be wary of them.

It's not picking on P-platers, it's backed up by statistics that show P-platers (and the 18-24 age group in general) are involved in a greater rate of accidents than other drivers - including the elderly. In WA, any driver over the age of 70 who wishes to renew their licence is required to pass their test again.

Look sorry mate.. but yes driving under the speed limit is illegal if your going slow enough.. which ppl seem to do.. and also i no this has been brought up and the argument is old.. but passenger restrictions is just going to mean more p plate drivers on the roads.. and think how many more races there will be to get to the destination first seein as you cant have all ya mates in just the one car.. i think the statistics will show the exact opposite of what there trying to do..

 

[ripitup27]

Further onto this, the driving tests as of July 1 will be 50 min tests which require all parkings to be completed as well as driving on a freeway. Still only the 9 points allowed as well, going to be ____ing difficult to pass.

Bit tough to do if you're taking the test in the country...

 

[Qsaint]

Why don't we also lift the legal drinking age to 21?

"Mature" drivers do stupid things on the road, just as some P-platers do. Why not ban cars altogether? That'll save lives I'm sure.



.

I think in Most states you have a yearly test and medical if your over 75 or something

 

[Capt_Concussion]

For me, I want to see the L-plate age lowered to 15 and the P-plate age lowered to 17. I like the current 120 hour experience requirement, even if it's unenforceable. It at least encourages surpervised experience before going it alone. To get a licence, the driver must pass a course, not just a basic test. The course would involve defensive driver training and a first aid course which would include a trip to the road accident ward to see what stupidity can result in. In the first year of P-plates, the driver is restricted to 1 passenger so they can concentrate more fully on their driving and as they aren't as a legal drinking age then the designated driver is less of a concern. I have no problem with power-to-weight restrictions for P-platers but they must be sensible. The current 125kw/tonne I think is adequate.
Another thing I think that is overlooked is the standard of cars on the road. Cars over 3 years old should have to pass for a road worthy certificate annually and the current import restriction should be relaxed to allow for a more affordable safe fleet of cars on the road.

Great suggestions there, especially the boulded bits. This whole argument would have a lot less substance if the P's age was 17 and the drinking age stayed at 18.

I'll be turning 18 in a couple of days, 13 days too late to escpape the new laws and I've read into it a bit as well as talking to my mates. The general consensus is that these new laws will;

• Increase cars on the road which results in more pollution and more traffic jams.
• Increase drink driving and other dangerous practices (booting) because it'll be harder to get a lift.
• Increased demand on taxis or late night public transport (there's already little of it)
• Just a royal pain in the rear end.

Best case scenario, Klyntonius' ideas are enforced. But I'd settle for a compromise where the passenger limit only comes into place if a first year P plater infringes on the rules (speeding, DUI etc.)

To enter into the power restriction debate. I wouldn't mind driving a 4 cylinder car around for a year if it meant I could have 4 passengers (could only afford a 4 cylinder at the moment anyway). It wouldn't be that hard to enforce, police see a P plater with a high powered car they can pull em over. Some argue that I could just take down my P plates when driving a high powered car. Well I rebut that with the fact that I could just put up some green P plates and drive around 4 passengers. Both rules are equally hard to enforce.

A year or so ago I saw one of those current affairs shows do a story on which drivers were the safest. The P plater group won...

 

[Qsaint]

Bit tough to do if you're taking the test in the country...

Agree its not just the freeway

I did my test in a built up area in inner sydney, 3 lanes of gridlock reverse parking on an extremely busy strip shopping centre etc. My wife did hers in the country just drove around with no one else around.

 

[ripitup27]

I did mine in Warrnambool on one of the wettest days the place has seen, and that's saying something. Didn't know where the demister for the back window was so went blind for the whole thing...instructor didn't notice. All I had to do was a three point turn in a back street.

 

[And_ROOS]

Designated driver just went out the window right there. Dumb law/idea

Car loads of 18 year olds dying drag racing went out the window too...

New laws wont do squat. They avoid the issue, again, that its driver maturity thats the problem, not experience or cars or passenger limits.

I did my L driving in a powered HSV. Did my tests in some little jap buzz box. The cars power changed. The handling, response and acceleration of the car changed. My maturity as a driver and person didnt.

 

[fairdinkum]

Car loads of 18 year olds dying drag racing went out the window too...

No they didn't! If somebody is wreckless enough to drag race in the first place, what makes you think that they are going to suddenly say 'Hey Jimmy, Matty and T-Bone - hop out - Me and Bazza are gonna go drag racing now and it's a limit of one passenger per car since I'm on my reds'?

 

[Underdog]

WA just introduced a ban on P-platers driving V8's despite still being able to drive faster vehicles and a recent study by UWA concluding that young drivers are no more at risk of death or serious injury by driving powerful cars than other drivers

http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache...r+cars+deaths+novice&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=au

Anyone else feels this smacks of the government misleading the public to fraud some votes?

 

[And_ROOS]

No they didn't! If somebody is wreckless enough to drag race in the first place, what makes you think that they are going to suddenly say 'Hey Jimmy, Matty and T-Bone - hop out - Me and Bazza are gonna go drag racing now and it's a limit of one passenger per car since I'm on my reds'?

Why would he have that many in the car in the first place? Regardless its a moot point, having a passenger restriction or not most P platers go out looking for stop light races anyway. The maturity of the driver is the issue, not the car, not the passengers.

 

[Mr Q]

WA just introduced a ban on P-platers driving V8's despite still being able to drive faster vehicles and a recent study by UWA concluding that young drivers are no more at risk of death or serious injury by driving powerful cars than other drivers.

All the faster car bit says to me is that the new laws don't go anywhere near far enough...

 

[Underdog]

All the faster car bit says to me is that the new laws don't go anywhere near far enough...

Let's just restrict them to mopeds

 

[And_ROOS]

All the faster car bit says to me is that the new laws don't go anywhere near far enough...

On one of my car forums this is a sticking point. For example a V6 VY commodore can put out 190 odd kw of power. Thats a decent amount considering the VX model is high 150s or so, and the VS model is in the 130s or so i believe.

But alot of people have the 5lt V8s that were used up to the creation of the Gen3 V8. Gen3s generally put out over 220kw but can easily be worked upto 280/300kw.
The 5lt V8s that are very common put out 160 to 170kw, which is less then that stock V6 VY commodore mentioned earlier.

Hence why noone can understand why a slow sluggish V8 is seen as more of a hazard then a quick V6.

If the government were smart and serious about this, they would restrict people based on kw to weight. A heavy V8 is less dangerous on the road then a lightweight lightning fast V6.

 

[Mr Q]

Let's just restrict them to mopeds

God no! Seeing how some people ride motorcycles, the last thing you'd want to do is put idiot P platers on them! Even half arsed powerless ones.

Restrict them to cars they can do the least damage to everyone else in.

 

[Todd_Gack]

God no! Seeing how some people ride motorcycles, the last thing you'd want to do is put idiot P platers on them! Even half arsed powerless ones.

Restrict them to cars they can do the least damage to everyone else in.

Bumper cars?

The problem is a mindset one - sure you can take away powerful cars, but you can still go fast enough to kill someone in a pos hatchback if you wanted too. You just dont get to be the super badass who can speed off when the lights go green.

 

[Mr Q]

Bumper cars?

The problem is a mindset one - sure you can take away powerful cars, but you can still go fast enough to kill someone in a pos hatchback if you wanted too. You just dont get to be the super badass who can speed off when the lights go green.

Takes away a lot of the incentive to speed if you can't drag off someone else at the lights, or don't have the power to do the sort of stupid things P-platers like to do.

 

[Underdog]

God no! Seeing how some people ride motorcycles, the last thing you'd want to do is put idiot P platers on them! Even half arsed powerless ones.

Restrict them to cars they can do the least damage to everyone else in.

I think we simplify this too much.

This extract from the summary of the study is what I'd like to see.

"The UWA research concluded that there is no
evidence to suggest that vehicle restrictions would
be effective in reducing the crash involvement of
young drivers and that young drivers themselves, not
their vehicles, should continue to be the focus of
road safety countermeasures.
Therefore, rather than focus on the vehicle as the
cause of speeding, it is recommended that the
speeding behaviour of young novice drivers be
targeted through changes to the licensing system
and penalty structure."

Take their ability away to have a full set of demerit points and punish the crap out of them. Take back licenses if need be.

Ultimately, you could drive a high powered car with a safety rating meaning it is less dangerous to you and others then a small car. Imagine the deaths and accidents if we threw all the p-platers into a Hyundai Excel which has injury protection for the driver as significantly lower then average. Meanwhile a VB Commodore offers more protection to the driver and the same level of danger to other drivers. Given p-platers are no more at risk of death or serious injury by driving powerful cars than other drivers, simply banning some cars over others is too simplistic.

Education and discipline is what is needed. I guess the government are trying to address that at the moment but in a rather flimsy way.

 

[ripitup27]

I do think the whole thing is a bit unfair. I just got off my plates in the last couple of months, didn't lose any points, never dragged off the lights and noticed people without P's were mostly just as bad as those with.

If I had restrictions on me when I first drove I would have been p o'd considering.

 

[Copernicus]

"Victoria - The Nanny State".

These stupid types of restrictions never make a difference. I can only foresee it creating more problems. But hey, patch-up jobs make for good PR to settle down some hysterical interest group or other.

 

[Mr Q]

I do think the whole thing is a bit unfair. I just got off my plates in the last couple of months, didn't lose any points, never dragged off the lights and noticed people without P's were mostly just as bad as those with.

If I had restrictions on me when I first drove I would have been p o'd considering.

And yet, statistics show that P platers (and other young drivers) have worse records than other drivers on the road. More accidents per head than any other group - including old fogeys that at least get tested regularly. There's a reason insurance costs are higher for young drivers.

Personally, I'd ban powerful cars being allowed for any driver who hasn't had a licence for at least six years, or has a less than clean driving record (ie no more than six demerit points for the previous four years).