Video - The rapid collapse of the Richmond FC - poor drafting and list management 2017-2023.

[BF Tiger]

2017 to 2023... in four of those seasons we finished at the really pointy end, so no high draft picks. Another season we finished in the finals. So not at the pointy end of the draft.

The deeper a draft pick the less chance of them being great players, or really good players, or able to slot straight into a team. Yes it does happen, it just gets harder for it to happen.

And has the club actually stuffed up our draft picks? Probably not. I can't recall them picking a player where everyone is surprised we've chosen him so early, or above another player. If someone could be bothered going through phantom drafts and then correlating who we have chosen I think we'd see that none of our picks have been outrageous, even if other later picks have progressed more. So that is not the drafting, but maybe the development.

Where it is looking increasingly like we blundered was the Taranto/Hopper trades, in particular the Hopper trade. But we rolled the dice and it has not paid off. I was happy we gave it a crack at the time so gotta live with that now.

 

[Juke]

We'll be fine in 3-4 years IMO. All hinges on this draft, really.

 

[Wavvey]

This comment on the video sums it up

 

[Coach_Required]

This old premise of depth players winning us flags. No we had a bunch of stars like I haven't seen since the 1980 side.

Rance and Martin, the two best players for their positions I have seen at Richmond. Riewoldt, behind Hart and Richo as the best forward, just shading Roach. Vlastuin as good a half back as we have seen. Astbury as good a full back as we have seen in 30 years. Cotchin, the best leader at the club since I can't remember. Prestia star, Lynch, star. Edwards mercurial. Grimes star, Houli star. Lambert bloody good. Broad bloody good. Nankervis the enforcer. Rioli, what a player he has turned into. What a side.

Drafting in regard to first round picks granted in the following years has been poor, but given Gibcus is the only below 10 for years, and he might still be a star, we have to be patient. Roll players did not win us the flag.

Agree,

When we were winning flags and dominating, everyone wanted to keep winning, you cant just turn around and say we will start rebuilding our list with pick 18. Winning has a flow on effect, it means those senior players keep playing games and what youth we do have don't get access to games like other teams do.

Easy to critise the club now in hindsight, but its the way the AFL intended it to be, only the cats seem to be able to defy it somehow. I say people need to stop looking at the past failures, what's done is done we need to focus on getting back up the ladder. There's one team we should be looking at who also went through a dynasty and then crashed before starting to show signs of improvement. Hawthorn, they look to be heading in the right direction, lets learn from them and perhaps improve how they rebuilt their list so it doesn't take us as long.

Looking at our mistakes is 1980's stuff, it got us nowhere then and will get us nowhere now.

 

[cutterman]

Absolutely laughable, the pile on is hilarious.

We went all in and ended up winning three flags and were the best side across the year when we didn't win it. Inevitably you're going to be picking up the scraps of the draft with that success.

Imagine us as supporters, if we went into the 2021 season and the club said that we have to trade a bunch of stars out to strengthen our draft hand. We would have burned Punt Rd down!

We were criticised throughout the 90s and 2000s for being a middling side, rarely did we get to the pointy end of the draft, and we sat in no mans land. The current scenario is much better than slowly dribbling down the ladder and hitting the bottom when Tassie kill all the drafts.

Then having a crack at us trading for Taranto and Hopper, while having a crack at us that the only player we gained from another club over the period leading up to that was Lynch. Make up your mind mate!

 

[Barunga Bullet]

first thing we need to do is refresh the strength and conditioning depart. That definitely needs to be done. I disagree with a lot of people on Hopper. If they can get is body right and keep him fit that will make a huge difference. Hes a very good player when 100%

 

[Noidnadroj]

I wouldn’t look to much further than the injury crisis in 2024, as per Herald Sun article today:

Total games lost to injury : 246 (65 more than next worst)

Games lost by best-22 players: 157 (26 more than next worst)

So that means on average every week we’ve been missing 8 x best-22 players. On top of the retirements of Cotch and JRoo and Soldo going to Port.

And the ‘best-22’ would be from pre-season, so wouldn’t include Lefau who was one of our few shining lights before an ACL.



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[Noidnadroj]

Obviously it’s list management but come on, we had limited opportunities in the draft due to our success. Gibcus is our only top 10 pick since dusty I believe and we’ve yet to see what he can do.
Our lack of free agency and recruitment has let us down compared to Geelong.

Our biggest mistake imo was getting hopper. Fair enough going for Taranto for hopper has just been a nightmare. Now we will draft some promising young mids and hopper will either keep them out of the side or be in the vfl himself and either way it’s a failure considering what we gave up and what we are paying him.

Don’t stress. His contract isn’t that big at $750k/season - Graham is about to sign for $600k and Baker/Battle $850k+. And we got Smith and Green in the Hopper trade. A Premiership list comprises 50+ list decisions over a 6-7 year period. If Smith and Green both establish careers then the Hopper trade is a net positive. If they don’t then it’s 34 decisions correct and 16 wrong. A single decision doesn’t ‘make or break’ anything.


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[Area51]

We are the reigning dynasty team. And we are preparing to go back to back.

 

[Drunken Wookie]

One of the biggest problems we've had since the flags that wasn't touched on was the baffling reluctancy to give any kids games over established role players. We've been forced to do it this year due to injury but we should've been pumping games into these kids years ago. There was no contingency plan post our premiership era stars retiring beyond roping in TT and Hopper and even that seemed like an impulse buy.

 

[dothebowdenshuffle]

We are the reigning dynasty team. And we are preparing to go back to back.

Love this. We're preparing for our next dynasty and that includes where we currently are listwise in 2024. Blair, Yze and the board will know the scope of the rebuild and will be eagerly looking forward to the challenge.

On CPH2483 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Bojangles17]

All bs aside what if Tom lynch had of continued his 2022 65G season, we wouldn’t be having this conversation , player availability has fkd us royally . When you win 3 flags in 4y quite simply you're not drafting at the pointy end that’s not rocket science so it’s not surprising we haven’t been able to replenish at the rate we’ve lost 300g triple premiership legends with r2/3 and mid season pics ,,,if anyone thinks we could have , well who’s kidding who

 

[Bojangles17]

One of the biggest problems we've had since the flags that wasn't touched on was the baffling reluctancy to give any kids games over established role players. We've been forced to do it this year due to injury but we should've been pumping games into these kids years ago. There was no contingency plan post our premiership era stars retiring beyond roping in TT and Hopper and even that seemed like an impulse buy.

That was my biggest beef with dimmas 2023 bs ,,,i cooked the sausages 1000 x ,,,no dh,,,yiu didn’t think of introducing 4+ juniors once the losses piled up instead of 1 debutant in 10w

 

[Stigmata]

Hands up if you think the D's are hitting the same problem

They're about a year behind us...

 

[Coach_Required]

Hands up if you think the D's are hitting the same problem

They're about a year behind us...

I reckon they are 2 years behind, they still havent come to the conclusion that their list isnt good enough.

 

[Ralll]

Without watching the video...

To have pulled off this 'refresh', we would have had to out-perform every other team's drafting and do it with a worse draft hand than every other team. It was a nearly impossible task.

We tried, we failed. We had to try. We have no Swan's type academy, or a surf coast and farmland on our doorstep like Geelong. For us inner metro Melbourne teams the most likely way to succeed is to bottom out and nail the high draft picks to begin the foundations of another rise the same way we did it late 2000's.

Taranto and Hopper can now become the protectors for the kids during the rebuild.

My biggest worries are the board and CEO keep striving for the refresh and middle for the foreseeable future, or we don't nail the picks and the rebuild drags on for a long time like Norfs.

 

[dothebowdenshuffle]

There's been several comments recently re the number of key personnel departures in recent years, which probably started with Caracella in 2019, then Fly and Leppa 2020, Burge end of 2022, Peggy and Dimma last year, this year Matty Clark and Gale. Balme's role has been scaled back over the last few years and he officially leaves us too in a few weeks time. Apologies to anyone I've missed. Shallow inferences are that these departures are a case of abandoning ship and there must be a problem with our culture.

I see these movements in many cases as the normal life cycle of a career professional. Burge is a good example. He came to us from another club. He had been at Punt Rd for a decade. He'd overseen our high performance through our dynasty. Career professionals rightly look for the next challenge or opportunity to take what they know and have learnt to a new environment and become a key part of a successful team.

Dimma was obviously done after 14 years here. At his age he had one more chance in his coaching career to repeat the Richmond experience elsewhere and so much about the GC opportunity would have been too good to refuse.

Ditto for Benny and the Tasmania opportunity.

It's an exciting, albeit uncertain and unpredictable, period as we begin the off field rebuild simultaneous with the on field.

The rebuild journey began last year when we welcomed in Yze as head coach with Newy as his deputy. Expect Yze to add significantly to his team this offseason.

Chris Toce is our National Recruiting Manager and early indications are he has a good eye for talent. Given our draft capital he'd be licking his lips

I expect we will announce a new CEO within the next month, clearly this is the key appointment which will drive our resurgence off the field as well as shape our football department longer term.

A testing time for our board and our patience as supporters. The journey is about to pick up serious pace and that's exciting.

On CPH2483 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Stigmata]

I reckon they are 2 years behind, they still havent come to the conclusion that their list isnt good enough.

Could say West coast at ahead
Hawthorn ahead
Geelong (hopefully) behind
And Essendon/north perpetually at our stage

 

[Bojangles17]

I reckon they are 2 years behind, they still havent come to the conclusion that their list isnt good enough.

Yea but what can quickly heighten problems are injuries coz you just don’t have adequate replacements for your A graders , who does , I reckon the cats will brown off in next 2y . For same reasons they ain’t replacing , danger selwood Cameron Hawkins with what they got coming thru

 

[Bojangles17]

There's been several comments recently re the number of key personnel departures in recent years, which probably started with Caracella in 2019, then Fly and Leppa 2020, Burge end of 2022, Peggy and Dimma last year, this year Matty Clark and Gale. Balme's role has been scaled back over the last few years and he officially leaves us too in a few weeks time. Apologies to anyone I've missed. Shallow inferences are that these departures are a case of abandoning ship and there must be a problem with our culture.

I see these movements in many cases as the normal life cycle of a career professional. Burge is a good example. He came to us from another club. He had been at Punt Rd for a decade. He'd overseen our high performance through our dynasty. Career professionals rightly look for the next challenge or opportunity to take what they know and have learnt to a new environment and become a key part of a successful team.

Dimma was obviously done after 14 years here. At his age he had one more chance in his coaching career to repeat the Richmond experience elsewhere and so much about the GC opportunity would have been too good to refuse.

Ditto for Benny and the Tasmania opportunity.

It's an exciting, albeit uncertain and unpredictable, period as we begin the off field rebuild simultaneous with the on field.

The rebuild journey began last year when we welcomed in Yze as head coach with Newy as his deputy. Expect Yze to add significantly to his team this offseason.

Chris Toce is our National Recruiting Manager and early indications are he has a good eye for talent. Given our draft capital he'd be licking his lips

I expect we will announce a new CEO within the next month, clearly this is the key appointment which will drive our resurgence off the field as well as shape our football department longer term.

A testing time for our board and our patience as supporters. The journey is about to pick up serious pace and that's exciting.

On CPH2483 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Well said

 

[Bojangles17]

Without watching the video...

To have pulled off this 'refresh', we would have had to out-perform every other team's drafting and do it with a worse draft hand than every other team. It was a nearly impossible task.

We tried, we failed. We had to try. We have no Swan's type academy, or a surf coast and farmland on our doorstep like Geelong. For us inner metro Melbourne teams the most likely way to succeed is to bottom out and nail the high draft picks to begin the foundations of another rise the same way we did it late 2000's.

Taranto and Hopper can now become the protectors for the kids during the rebuild.

My biggest worries are the board and CEO keep striving for the refresh and middle for the foreseeable future, or we don't nail the picks and the rebuild drags on for a long time like Norfs.

In many ways that’s the benefit of getting in a new ceo with new set of goals and strat plan . Wouldn’t surprise if livo departed in next 12m that may be healthy too , lots of emerging footy peep strive for those roles as footy performance mgrs it could compliment our refresh

 

[SunshineBoy]

Hands up if you think the D's are hitting the same problem

They're about a year behind us...

Happens to all Dynasty teams

 

[SunshineBoy]

In many ways that’s the benefit of getting in a new ceo with new set of goals and strat plan . Wouldn’t surprise if livo departed in next 12m that may be healthy too , lots of emerging footy peep strive for those roles as footy performance mgrs it could compliment our refresh

I’m hearing Livingstone has had his head turned by the Gold Coast

 

[tora tora tora]

We wouldn't be last if list management and drafting was successful. He's telling me the obvious so it's time the club sorts this out otherwise more pain.

12 minute youtube from the kid oversimplifies it
we wouldn't have won one flag if Balme, the assistant coaches didn't join the club.
Prestia, Nank & Caddy were brilliant list decisions.
CCJ, Chol OUT are salary cap decisions & also knowing Lynch is on the way. Chol got games as a KPF elsewhere, he only played back up ruck for us.

I haven't liked the lack of drafting a KPF when we could have.

TT & JH addressed a need. TT had a good year in 23, Dusty was good Prestia played a lot, which pushed JGTI into the fwd line. Along with unfit MRJ, out of form Cumbo, Sonz, Clarke. Lynch getting on the park 4 times was the killer. Miller & Pickett playing KPF with slowing Jack R.

Solve a midfield problem create a fwd line problem.
The KPF merry go round has been tragic.

Balta, Ryan, Kosi, Le Fau, Fawcett, Bauer, Blight, Brown. Brown injured last game.

How Louis held his job this season was staggering.
imagine having these players available for selection.

Josh Gibcus Dylan Grimes Tylar Young
Campbell Gray Baker xx
Jack Ross xx Brown
Green Tom Lynch Mykelti Lefau
Liam Fawcett Maurice Rioli jnr Judson Clarke

Sam Naismith.

****ing ridiculous by the club