Roast Waite out for the season [Merged threads]

[Dorotich]

Re: Waite Partial ACL tear.

Hi all

Though being no doc, i have had extensive experience in knees (2 recos and 2 partial tears).

From my experience, a partial tear could be an approx 3 month lay off. I cannot remember what grade the tears were but on both occasions i was in a knee brace (think Koutas comeback game at the dome when he wore half a car on his leg) for three months on both occasions. Being in the brace stops sideways movement and locking the leg. This then obviously reduces the muscle mass in the leg as well. By having this brace on, it will help the ACL repair itself but then the work to help increase the muscle to how it once was could take a bit of time.

However what could compound this is, i read today waite has loose ligaments in his knees (exactly like me and let me tell you it sucks to high heaven). This then could create issues later as the ACL might not repair itself to its original strength and then could be more prone to snapping later on.

Because of the condition of loose ligaments, doctors and physios will stress that you need to build muscle in the quads, hammys and calfs to help keep the knee joint strong. Question is for Waite, how much muscle could be build on his skinny frame that wont affect is ability to jump and run?

Anyhow, if he has the op, then kiss 2009 goodbye even with a partial tear. If he goes for brace and rest, fingers crossed and with all the right treatment he could be back (a big maybe) by late August/early Sept as a conservative approach.

All i can say is good luck Waitey.

 

[King Elvis]

Re: Waite Partial ACL tear.

Probably my favourite Carlton player - wrap him in cotton wool, forget about this year.

He is way, way too important for you guys, and, not being silly, but you aren't going to come close to the flag this year (obviously most teams wont anyway), so forget this year and get him right for next year, when your younger guys have another year and another pre-season under their belts.

Regardless, was terrible to see and hope he's alright.

 

[parrot]

Re: Waite Partial ACL tear.

He'll no doubt be getting an arthroscopy to determine the extent of the damage. Even if they manage it conservatively, with the amount of rehab required, I'd be suprised if he plays again this year unfortunately. Terrible news for Waite, but I guess now there's an opportunity for someone else to step up and take on his role. While it's incredibly disappointing, the fact is we need to develop enough depth to cover big injuries. When Waite does come back hopefully another player will have used this opportunity to take their game to the next level - Austin? Hartett? Stanton?

 

[The Flying Doormat]

Re: Waite Partial ACL tear.

FFS, surgery has to be the only option, even if he's out for the rest of the season..

Much better to go for the conservative/safer route, then 'rolling the dice' and throw him back again this year, where he could do it again, and make it even more 'serious' ...

Send Waitey to the Operating Table Carlton FFS ..

Speaking from experience, I wish I had the op straight up. After a partial tear, it was OK for a couple of years then needed a full recon. You still need rehab for a partial tear; that will put Waite out for 8? Then what, rush him back in round 17 for a tilt at 9-10-11? Get the job done now while the ACL is not totally ruined, reckon it helps in the recon process and aim for round 1, 2010. FFS, it doesnt look like we will be a serious threat at getting into the 8 let alone a decent finals campaign.

 

[Bluebear]

Re: Waite Partial ACL tear.

Wow.......there's a lot of questions.......and twice as much BS in this thread, so lets cut down to the nitty gritty with this.

1. Even if you tear your ACL completely you can do well conservatively (and no CP - conservative is NOT surgery, it is physiotherapy). There are a number of Ski instructors in NSW who prove this having "ended their careers" in the 70's, only to "baffle" doctors by resuming skiing down the track.
The hamstrings can function in the same role as the ACL and provide dynamic stability.

2. Most complete tears that want to get back on track as quick as possible will have surgery.

3. Partial tears - how partial is it?......10%.....50%.......99%?
This is what the specialist will determine.

CP......if your partial tear was only 10% of the fibres.....which will bleed, and fibrose just as well as any other ligament in the body.......why would you take the "conservative" approach and opt for 12 months of rehab with a graft to replace a good ligament.

He will see the specialist. They will determine how much ACL remaining is enough. It varies from surgeon to surgeon so much that to make a guess (i.e. >50% = surgery) would be stupid.
I can appreciate the "I should have done" comments, but again, how much did you tear?

Lets wait and see before we make our "armchair diagnosis" and send Waite in for surgery.

The other question will be his meniscus. Hyperextension injuries can often give the meniscus a good old pinch, and that in itself may require an arthroscope to repair.

To many unknowns. Stay tuned.

 

[HBF]

Re: Waite Partial ACL tear.

Truth be told, I have been waiting for Bluebears comments on this matter. So, the crux of the matter so far is determining the % of tear that has been inflicted on Waite's knee.

As they say - watch this space.

 

[len_jet]

Re: Waite Partial ACL tear.

Wow.......there's a lot of questions.......and twice as much BS in this thread, so lets cut down to the nitty gritty with this.

1. Even if you tear your ACL completely you can do well conservatively (and no CP - conservative is NOT surgery, it is physiotherapy). There are a number of Ski instructors in NSW who prove this having "ended their careers" in the 70's, only to "baffle" doctors by resuming skiing down the track.
The hamstrings can function in the same role as the ACL and provide dynamic stability.

2. Most complete tears that want to get back on track as quick as possible will have surgery.

3. Partial tears - how partial is it?......10%.....50%.......99%?
This is what the specialist will determine.

CP......if your partial tear was only 10% of the fibres.....which will bleed, and fibrose just as well as any other ligament in the body.......why would you take the "conservative" approach and opt for 12 months of rehab with a graft to replace a good ligament.

He will see the specialist. They will determine how much ACL remaining is enough. It varies from surgeon to surgeon so much that to make a guess (i.e. >50% = surgery) would be stupid.
I can appreciate the "I should have done" comments, but again, how much did you tear?

Lets wait and see before we make our "armchair diagnosis" and send Waite in for surgery.

The other question will be his meniscus. Hyperextension injuries can often give the meniscus a good old pinch, and that in itself may require an arthroscope to repair.

To many unknowns. Stay tuned.

haha close to it!

As for specialist i researched my operations to the n'th degree and knew the whole process short of intricacies such as where to drill and all that... i even self diagnosed my own MRI after I had it done prior to heading in to the surgeon... there is a lot of material on the net... I just wasnt comfortable with some one cutting me open unless i knew what they were going to do to me!

as for waite depending on the definition of "partial" i still reckon the 6-10 week lay off and let it heal it's self is the best option... zimmerman brace and plenty of R & R should be the best course of action!

geezz Bluebear... BS... I wasn't far off... your a harsh critic!

 

[Some Idiot]

Re: Waite Partial ACL tear.

What's the difference between partial and a full tear in terms of recovery anyway?

 

[len_jet]

Re: Waite Partial ACL tear.

full tear - straight to the knife for the reco
partial - depending on % torn a brace and some off to let it heal but if too much is torn then straight to the knife...

think like gia from your mob... he had a partial tear

 

[FRUMPY]

Re: Waite Partial ACL tear.

There are always positives to come out of things like this. Will probably result in Austin playing the remainder of the year. This will give him good experience and hopefully quicken his development. Hartlett will probably get a game and we can finally see if he is worht persisiting with.

Well will definetly miss Waitey and it will throw our structure out a bit, but hopefully the players mentioned will lift.

 

[Bexta]

Re: Waite Partial ACL tear.

Hi all, long time no see. Absolutely shattered about Jarrad

Giansiracusa and Reiwoldt both had partial ACL tears and did not opt for surgery and made successful recoveries. Don't think surgery is necessarily the best option. Gia returned from the injury and played his best season of footy last year.

Gia's ACL was only frayed, rather than torn.

("despite a limited pre-season last year it allowed him to complete an excellent season. Riewoldt has never fully clarified the extent of the damage done to his knee last year, but it is believed he had issues with his ACL.
Ross Lyon would only ever say there was an "impingement" to the ligament of Riewoldt, who finished second in the Saints' best-and-fairest". Jon Ralph HS).

as for knees you cant go past julian feller or hayden morris... i dare say the two best in the state.

Chosen Feller, so sound as if he's in good hands.

Regardless of the length of time he'll spend out, geez are we going to miss him! Massively. Mostly down back but also with the option of throwing him up forward when we need it which worked a treat against Freo and the Pies.

 

[Chism]

Re: Waite Partial ACL tear.

This Injury is really bad news and i feel for Jarrod

Will be waiting anxiously today to see what course of action the medical team take with him. Fingers Crossed it isnt to bad.

 

[Bluebear]

Re: Waite Partial ACL tear.

geezz Bluebear... BS... I wasn't far off... your a harsh critic!

Wasn't aiming at you.

Gia's ACL was only frayed, rather than torn.

If you have a rope....and its is "frayed", have a close look at individual fibres. Are the frayed fibres torn or intact?

Like the difference between a "fracture" and a "break".

The only difference is the spelling and peoples perception of what they mean.

 

[Chism]

Re: Waite Partial ACL tear.

Anyone heard anything yet??? I have been scouring the Net but cant find any Info on how he went with the specialist and what is going to happen.

Surely some news must be ready to surface soon.

 

[Bluebear]

Re: Waite Partial ACL tear.

Anyone heard anything yet??? I have been scouring the Net but cant find any Info on how he went with the specialist and what is going to happen.

Surely some news must be ready to surface soon.

Heard a grab on SEN about an hour ago from him walking in to see the surgeon.

Should be something after 5pm once the club media liaison gets onto it.
Waite did say he didn't expect to play again this year either way.

Reco - 12 months
Rest and rehab - 6-8 weeks minimum but probably closer to 12 weeks(puts him out to at least round 15 - 17 but more likely 21-22)

 

[Pamam]

Re: Waite Partial ACL tear.

Blues to Waite and hope

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,25535070-19742,00.html

CARLTON is still holding out hope Jarrad Waite will play again this year despite a partially torn anterior cruciate ligament.

Waite also suffered bone bruising and some damage to his lateral meniscus after hyperextending his knee in Carlton's loss to Adelaide.

The versatile Blue will undergo arthroscopic surgery tomorrow or Wednesday to repair the meniscus damage, while at the same time assessing the damage to the ACL.

Carlton will know by the end of the week whether Waite will need a full knee reconstruction.

 

[len_jet]

Re: Waite Partial ACL tear.

Blues to Waite and hope

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,25535070-19742,00.html

could be good, could be bad...

The wait continues now!

 

[bluey1314]

Re: Waite Partial ACL tear.

i would be suprised if Waite doesnt have surgery. Even with a partial tear, it takes 7-9 weeks before he will be able to straighten his leg and then you would think he would need at least 3 weeks of solid conditioning before returning to AFL level. There would be no point. the season would be over.

 

[1981]

Re: Waite Partial ACL tear.

The versatile Blue will undergo arthroscopic surgery tomorrow or Wednesday to repair the meniscus damage, while at the same time assessing the damage to the ACL.
Carlton will know by the end of the week whether Waite will need a full knee reconstruction.

 

[Chops_a_must]

Re: Waite Partial ACL tear.

Wow.......there's a lot of questions.......and twice as much BS in this thread, so lets cut down to the nitty gritty with this.

1. Even if you tear your ACL completely you can do well conservatively (and no CP - conservative is NOT surgery, it is physiotherapy). There are a number of Ski instructors in NSW who prove this having "ended their careers" in the 70's, only to "baffle" doctors by resuming skiing down the track.
The hamstrings can function in the same role as the ACL and provide dynamic stability.

Just on this, I don't have a PCL in one of my knees. Apparently that's fairly common amongst footballers especially. Wouldn't know it apart from having to do a patella manip every few days.

I was expecting Waite to have done his PCL with the way he landed. Looks like he'll need surgery anyway, so would expect the call to be made then.

Fingers crossed, he is a gun. Single handedly kept you guys in the game against us.

 

[Aphrodite]

Re: Waite Partial ACL tear.

http://www.carltonfc.com.au/season2008/newsarticle/tabid/4311/newsid/77461/default.aspx

Jarrad Waite will undergo arthroscopic surgery this week to repair the lateral meniscus in his left knee. This course of action follows a consultation with his surgeon and club medical staff this afternoon.

Waite hyper extended the knee during the first quarter of Saturday's match against Adelaide at AAMI stadium and scans yesterday revealed the damage to the meniscus and a partial tear of the ACL.

The course of rehabilitation to be undertaken for the partial tear of the ACL will be confirmed following the arthroscopic surgery later this week.

 

[len_jet]

Re: Waite Partial ACL tear.

Just on this, I don't have a PCL in one of my knees. Apparently that's fairly common amongst footballers especially. Wouldn't know it apart from having to do a patella manip every few days.

I was expecting Waite to have done his PCL with the way he landed. Looks like he'll need surgery anyway, so would expect the call to be made then.

Fingers crossed, he is a gun. Single handedly kept you guys in the game against us.

PCL's are very unlikely to tear in a hyper extension as that bent montion actually slackens that ligament... the PCL runs from the back of the bottom bone to the front of the top... ACL is the opposite and is in extreme tension when an hyper extension occurs... the ACL runs from the back of the top bone to the front of the bottom bone...

 

[celtic_pride]

Re: Waite Partial ACL tear.

That's that then, Waite gone for the year ...

I am convinced, he won't be back at all this year, even if he doesn't requite a reconstruction, which I he will.

 

[Chops_a_must]

Re: Waite Partial ACL tear.

PCL's are very unlikely to tear in a hyper extension as that bent montion actually slackens that ligament... the PCL runs from the back of the bottom bone to the front of the top... ACL is the opposite and is in extreme tension when an hyper extension occurs... the ACL runs from the back of the top bone to the front of the bottom bone...

Not necessarily. Any movement that pushes the lower leg posteriorally to its normal position can put pressure on the PCL. It's why ruckman do them in leg clashes.

It's why former race walkers such as myself end up with serious problems with PCLs.

It's also why ACLs are done mostly when turning, with planted feet, and flexed knees. Very hard to push the tibia back in that position.

But knee hyperextensions have pretty random outcomes. You can do both cruciates like Rehn and Mainwaring, one or the other, or none at all.

 

[jonoman89]

Re: Waite Partial ACL tear.

Even if he did return he'd be very limited. Get him surgery ASAP imo.