Current WAR CRIMES Israel - Hamas Conflict

[faible]

Your descriptors lack any semblance of scale.

I'm not sure raising the concept of scale is a good pathway for you.

 

[Zidane98]

You're not asking about war crimes, crimes against humanity, or violations of IHL or IHRL though.

Why don't you just stop wasting everyone's time and tell us the outcome you're angling for instead of pretending you're asking a question.

In what world is asking you what you believe were the motivations behind Hamas actions on Oct 7 not related to exactly that?

The desperation to not answer a simple question continues and quite frankly is bizarre.

 

[faible]

In what world is asking you what you believe were the motivations behind Hamas actions on Oct 7 not related to exactly that?

The desperation to not answer a simple question continues and quite frankly is bizarre.

Taps Sign

'Hamas is a terrorist organisation'

I'm not sure what else you're fishing for here. It's pretty clear what I think of Hamas.

this doesn't in any way absolve Hamas or other Palestinian Insurgency Groups of responsibility for the war crimes and violations of IHL and IHRL they've committed.

Even in this latest chain of conversation I'd have thought it was pretty clear where I believe the responsibility of any war crimes or violations of IHL or IHRL they've committed should lie.

So once again, why don't you just tell us the outcome you're wanting from this line of questioning instead of wasting everyone's time and trying to throw a few personal insults in for fun.

 

[Zidane98]

Taps Sign

'Hamas is a terrorist organisation'

I'm not sure what else you're fishing for here. It's pretty clear what I think of Hamas.



Even in this latest chain of conversation I'd have thought it was pretty clear where I believe the responsibility of any war crimes or violations of IHL or IHRL they've committed should lie.

So once again, why don't you just tell us the outcome you're wanting from this line of questioning instead of wasting everyone's time and trying to throw a few personal insults in for fun.

Yet more deflection & waffle. Simple question require simple answers. Try it one day.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Not denying or trying to mitigate anything.

That guy lives in LA.

We don't want him back in Israel. He has a bad track record of dubious activities with minors. Careful who you follow.

He's certainly made a low of Zionists upset by balancing his tweets.

If you really want to see unhinged lunatics, read the comments on his posts.

 

[faible]

Yet more deflection & waffle. Simple question require simple answers. Try it one day.

As I said

So once again, why don't you just tell us the outcome you're wanting from this line of questioning instead of wasting everyone's time and trying to throw a few personal insults in for fun.

Looks like wasting everyone's time and personal insults it is.

 

[ZEV]

He's certainly made a low of Zionists upset by balancing his tweets.

If you really want to see unhinged lunatics, read the comments on his posts.

Ironic that you don't have time to watch or listen to a graphic description of the war crimes committed on October 7 but you want me to read the twitter comments of a child tamperer living in Hollywood.

This Zioninst/Israeli/Jew says no to sexual criminals.

 

[Zidane98]

As I said



Looks like wasting everyone's time and personal insults it is.

Hilarious you try to paint your own deflection & waffle as an "insult".

One thing is clear - you cannot and will not post in good faith so in the interests of this thread I will terminate this discussion.

 

[Jazny]

He's certainly made a low of Zionists upset by balancing his tweets.

If you really want to see unhinged lunatics, read the comments on his posts.

Are you going to bother defending your comments that were paraphrasing that terrible Intercept article or should we move on to the next thing?

 

[faible]

One thing is clear - you cannot and will not post in good faith so in the interests of this thread I will terminate this discussion.

I've actually tried repeatedly to engage with pretty much every poster in this thread in good faith at times.

You seem to manage to do so for a post or two, then slip in to 'you're pro-Hamas!' or throw in some bizarre unrelated whataboutism.

To your credit I do believe you at least appear to accept that a significant amount of what Israel is doing is unacceptable and unjustifiable, but somehow seem to keep finding yourself arguing alongside posters that believe what Israel is doing is justifiable, necessary and appropriate.

It's like you're 75% of the way to understanding what someone like me or GP posts, but for some reason have decided we're 'wrong' so argue against us anyway.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Ironic that you don't have time to watch or listen to a graphic description of the war crimes committed on October 7 but you want me to read the twitter comments of a child tamperer living in Hollywood.

This Zioninst/Israeli/Jew says no to sexual criminals.

Isn't Israel known as a safe haven for sex offenders?

'Tip of the iceberg': How foreign sex offenders find refuge in Israel

***

www.haaretz.com

https://www.timesofisrael.com/diaspora-pedophiles-increasingly-use-israel-as-a-haven-activists-charge/

Google it, there are pages and pages of articles.

Do you have evidence of these claims you keep making about Shaiel Ben-Ephraim, or is it another 'trust me bro, points to calendar' moment?

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Okay let's start with this disinformation. I was prepared for this attack on the NYT article, I have heard it all before and it's a total grift perpetrated mostly by the Intercept.

So to start: It' so interesting you call it the 'Anat Schwartz' story and refer to her as it's author. I guess you don't even bother to open the article for yourself in your 'research', the lead author of the article is Pulitzer prize winning journalist Jeffrey Gettleman. An extremely interesting and telling omission.

Yes of course, Jeffrey Gettlemen who didn't see his role as a journalist to find evidence of sexual violence - just to present infromation in a way that heavily implies it.



Leaving him out was for brevity, my post was already too long, but thanks for getting him in as well.

Anat Schwartz is not a journalist, has no qualifications, yet was parachuted straight in to the NYT to get to work on laundering atrocity pr0n to sway Western audiences to get on board with Israel's ethnic cleansing. It has worked wonders.

She contributed to about half a dozen pieces, most on supposed sexual violence by Hamas, then was dropped uncermeoniously when it became clear her hasbara was untenable.

Why didn't you mention Sella as well? He made it onto the byline - Schwartz's partner's nephew, I believe? Yeah solid journalistic lineup at the NYT.

Gettlemen went straight back to writing about Ukraine after his embarrassing efforts on this story.

Next

Its disingenuous to say that family denies she was r*ped. This is more shoddy characterization. Some members of her family did express doubts she was r*ped.

Nevertheless, none of the victim's surviving family were there, so how would they even know? So unless you're desperately searching for something, anything, to discredit the story, why on earth would you even bring up her family's hearsay to cast doubt on what the NYT reported and what the witness to the body said, saw and photgraphed? That is extremely bizarre to say the least.

You might respond that its because of the supposed odd timing of the texts the woman in black her husband sent during the attack, as reported in the Intercept article.

There was a 9 minute window from the last time the alleged victim, the woman in black, texted her family and another text sent by her husband saying she was dead... according to Ryan Grim, the grifter who co-wrote the article, this 9 minute window somehow "makes the Israeli officials’ claims implausible", but he later appeared on a podcast where he fumbles and stumbles on the question of whether that 9 minute window does actually make the rape accusation implausible - which it obviously doesn't and he reluctantly concedes it possible. Its entirely possible to be r*ped and murdered in 9 minutes, or disgustingly even after she was killed...

Yes, Gal Abdush's husband was there. He was right next to her body when he reported her death to her family at 7am Oct 7th. He remained in contact until at least 7:44am, leaving an audio message for his brother. At no time did he mention to anyone any sexual assault of his partner.

At 6:51 Gal had sent a whatsapp message to her family saying there was sounds of explosions. By 7am she'd been shot in the heart and was dead.

You're claiming that Hamas r*ped and killed her in 5 minutes, with her husband next to her, and he didn't mention that part to anyone in the next 45 mins? I mean of course it's possible, but seems extremely unlikely to me. Like, ridiculously unplausible.

And what are we actually basing this claim of rape on? Usually the burden of proof is on the accuser, when it comes to these things. Hamas had never been known to use rape as a weapon in previous operations. It really appears you are happy to assume Gal was r*ped, and now you're looking to deflect any possible doubts.



Thanks to Haaretz, we now know this confirmation of rape was declared, by the NYT and by these 'Israeli police officials', before this video footage had even been examined.



A grainy video shot the next day, which cannot now be located, which depicts Gal's dress exposing her lower body. Israeli police spokesperson, not investigator decide she's been r*ped, so there we have it. A tentpole NYT story, giving a sheen of validity to a bunch of assumptions, upon which countless other articles and social media posts claim is proof of widespread sexual violence by Hamas.

What I find bizarre is how far you will bend over backwards to confirm this is a bolted on 100% certain case of sexual assault, and anyone who looks into the facts is some sicko conspiracy theorist.

If we all just don't swallow the propaganda whole like you have, there's something wrong with us. Ooooh the New York Times did an article guys! It's confirmed!

The other claim that these grifters use to weirdly try to discredit the rape of the woman in black is that one of her other sisters posted a critical response to the NYT article on social media which she later deleted. Later this sister of the victim clarified to the NYT that she, understandably, was trying to protect her sister and clarified that she didn't know what really happened.

'Last week, Ms. Alter told the Times that she was upset her post had been used to question whether Hamas sexually assaulted women and that when she made it, she had been “confused about what happened” and was trying to “protect my sister."'


Not that it makes any difference to the credibility of the NYT article, but there are other members of her family who don't deny she was r*ped at all and believe she was, such as her mother.

TL;DR: It's neither accurate or relevant to say that her family denies she was r*ped.

The mother was interviewed and was surprised to learn months later that apparently now her daughter had been r*ped



It looks like they told Gal's mother lies, like the poor woman hadn't suffered enough.



Look at the falsehoods they will construct for even the victim's families. If we are to believe this story, Gal was r*ped then killed in the space of 5 minutes with her husband watching. Hamas then left him alive for 45 minutes, with his phone communicating with his family, asking them to take care of his children.

They told her there were witnesses, more lies.

Then they flat out lied in the article:



They did not fear she had been r*ped at all, until Anat came up with her magical 'cross-examination of evidence'.



In fact, the people Anat spoke to about Gal's case were not actually in the investigative team, and the footage had not even been examined when the article was released. The 'journalists' writing this story were making up the facts to suit them as went along!

Nagi's brother sure thinks the NYT story is horseshit:

As for the idea that the article is discredited that's just laughable: NYT have stood by it:

“She (Anat) made valuable contributions and we saw no evidence of bias in her work. We remain confident in the accuracy of our reporting and stand by the team’s investigation. But as we have said, her ‘likes’ of offensive and opinionated social media posts, predating her work with us, are unacceptable.”

Liking unhinged social media posts as your country is being attacked in the most horrific way is stupid and NYT are right to not use Schwartz again because liking those posts violates their code of conduct and can give an impression of bias, but it's pure cope to think that's sufficient evidence to call her part of the reporting discredited and its even worse to try and make out she is the sole author.

Haha, you think the NYT standing by their article means it's not discredited? Oh brother.

Also it's a weird claim that the co-authors of the NYT article "harassed" the photographer

The operative part is telling the photographer they needed it for hasbara, not the repeated asking.

Moreover, all of this critism discounts the rest of the NYT article, the witnesses they interviewed, the evidence they collected, all of which there is zero reason to believe was fabricated, false, or discredited.

Witnesses like Raz Cohen? Took him a few days to decide he had witnessed sexual assault, he didn't mention it at all in several interviews immediately after Oct 7. He was hiding from Hamas and witnessing these gruesome scenes of slaughter and rape, and was so traumatised that he has since refused to answer questions after the NYT article. Here he is witnessing either a number of women r*ped, or a single woman gang r*ped (he can't decide which) on road 232, and throwing a shaka, showing the horror of it all.



The UN report doesn't verify his story:



I put little faith in other testimonies either, the NYT report conflicts heavily with the Haaretz article some 4 months later.

Witnesses, confessions, naked dead bodies. All the evidence of Hamas rape on Oct. 7

***

www.haaretz.com

Here you have an architects and dentists seeing blood on a body and declaring it sexual violence.





Haaretz disagrees:

I 100% stand by the NYT article, it's actually hilarious how bad the blah blah blah...

Of course you do.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Ironic that you don't have time to watch or listen to a graphic description of the war crimes committed on October 7 but you want me to read the twitter comments of a child tamperer living in Hollywood.

This Zioninst/Israeli/Jew says no to sexual criminals.

Wasn't talking to you, just quoted for clarity.

 

[ZEV]

Wasn't talking to you, just quoted for clarity.

It's ok.

You seem to be making a habit of defending and denying sex offenders though.

Everyone notices.

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

It's ok.

You seem to be making a habit of defending and denying sex offenders though.

Everyone notices.

You're not creepy at all.

 

[ZEV]

Isn't Israel known as a safe haven for sex offenders?

'Tip of the iceberg': How foreign sex offenders find refuge in Israel

***

www.haaretz.com

https://www.timesofisrael.com/diaspora-pedophiles-increasingly-use-israel-as-a-haven-activists-charge/

Google it, there are pages and pages of articles.

Do you have evidence of these claims you keep making about Shaiel Ben-Ephraim, or is it another 'trust me bro, points to calendar' moment?

Firstly, using child sex crimes as a tricky gotcha is low brow even for you.

There are loopholes in Israeli immigration laws that definitely have been exploited.

There are pages and pages of articles because it is abhorrent and an issue that needs to be fixed.

Here is some light reading for you on the prevalence of child marriage in the region. It's very sad and disturbing. Check the map.

https://www.unicef.org/mena/media/17696/file/ChildMarriage-Factsheet-Feb22.pdf%20.pdf

Postdoctoral fellow left UCLA following tweeted allegations of sexual harassment - Daily Bruin

This post was updated Aug. 7 at 4:40 p.m. A postdoctoral fellow left UCLA following multiple accusations of sexual harassment on Twitter. Starting in early June, several Twitter users accused Shaiel Ben-Ephraim, a postdoctoral fellow at the UCLA Younes and Soraya Nazarian Center for Israel...

dailybruin.com

Be better Ghosty.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Postdoctoral fellow left UCLA following tweeted allegations of sexual harassment - Daily Bruin

This post was updated Aug. 7 at 4:40 p.m. A postdoctoral fellow left UCLA following multiple accusations of sexual harassment on Twitter. Starting in early June, several Twitter users accused Shaiel Ben-Ephraim, a postdoctoral fellow at the UCLA Younes and Soraya Nazarian Center for Israel...

dailybruin.com

Be better Ghosty.

I clicked on the alleged evidence linked in that article and this is what it says

 

[ZEV]

I blocked Eylon Levy

Why were you even following him?

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Why were you even following him?

I'm not sure I was - he was just appearing everywhere on my feed, Elon boosted the heck out of a bunch of Israeli reps and he was the one I found most obnoxious I guess. I don't block too any people.

 

[ZEV]

I clicked on the alleged evidence linked in that article and this is what it says

View attachment 2079355

No reply to the legalised sexual abuse of children in the countries surrounding Israel I note.

Shame shame Ghosty.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

No reply to the legalised sexual abuse of children in the countries surrounding Israel I note.

Shame shame Ghosty.

Are you saying that Israel isn't the only safe haven for sex offenders in that region?

Yes, it's horrible.

‘Everything is legitimate’: Israeli leaders defend soldiers accused of rape

Israeli society is divided over arrest of 10 soldiers for brutal gang rape of a Palestinian prisoner caught on video.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Jazny]

Yes of course, Jeffrey Gettlemen who didn't see his role as a journalist to find evidence of sexual violence - just to present infromation in a way that heavily implies it.



Leaving him out was for brevity, my post was already too long, but thanks for getting him in as well.

No you didn't "leave him out for brevity", it's two more words on your wall of text. You left Jeffrey Gettlemen out because he ruins your argument that this was just written by some random biased Israeli filmmaker with no journalism credentials. Nice try.

Anat Schwartz is not a journalist, has no qualifications, yet was parachuted straight in to the NYT to get to work on laundering atrocity pr0n to sway Western audiences to get on board with Israel's ethnic cleansing. It has worked wonders.

She contributed to about half a dozen pieces, most on supposed sexual violence by Hamas, then was dropped uncermeoniously when it became clear her hasbara was untenable.

Again, you are disengenous and just trying to make your argument work. She was dropped by NYT for liking posts in the immediate wake of October 7th that were insane. The times stood by her work in the article. It had nothing to do with the credibility of her work in the article.

Yes, Gal Abdush's husband was there. He was right next to her body when he reported her death to her family at 7am Oct 7th. He remained in contact until at least 7:44am, leaving an audio message for his brother. At no time did he mention to anyone any sexual assault of his partner.

At 6:51 Gal had sent a whatsapp message to her family saying there was sounds of explosions. By 7am she'd been shot in the heart and was dead.

You're claiming that Hamas r*ped and killed her in 5 minutes, with her husband next to her, and he didn't mention that part to anyone in the next 45 mins? I mean of course it's possible, but seems extremely unlikely to me. Like, ridiculously unplausible.

Of course its possible and considering there is no reason to disbelieve the witness to the body, the state of her body, witnesses in the area reporting similar sexual assault, those texts do not say a single thing about the plausability of her being sexually assaulted. Moreover, its horrible to think about, but there are reports of necrophilia occurring so she doesn't even have to be alive to have been assaulted in that way. Can you imagine a court throwing out the case on that weak lame evidence? "Judge look at these texts. There's just a 9 minute window kind of sort of but not really! How can you rape in 9 minutes?" Intercept journalism.

And what are we actually basing this claim of rape on? Usually the burden of proof is on the accuser, when it comes to these things. Hamas had never been known to use rape as a weapon in previous operations. It really appears you are happy to assume Gal was r*ped, and now you're looking to deflect any possible doubts.

View attachment 2079313

Thanks to Haaretz, we now know this confirmation of rape was declared, by the NYT and by these 'Israeli police officials', before this video footage had even been examined.

View attachment 2079318

A grainy video shot the next day, which cannot now be located, which depicts Gal's dress exposing her lower body. Israeli police spokesperson, not investigator decide she's been r*ped, so there we have it. A tentpole NYT story, giving a sheen of validity to a bunch of assumptions, upon which countless other articles and social media posts claim is proof of widespread sexual violence by Hamas.

No, the truth is this was your best shot at trying to disprove the NYT story. The grifters at the Intercept thought if they could discredit that story, it casts doubt on the whole idea that rape occurred and was perpetrated by Hamas on October 7th and it would prove their larger conspiracy theories about Israeli 'hasbara'. They think this is all propaganda. But the attempts to discredit it have been absolutely pathetic. 9 minute windows, using the hearsay of family members who understandably don't want to believe she was r*ped, trying to discredit the story with ad hominem attacks on one of the authors, while ignoring the witness testimony, the reportedly studios work of the journalists, police reports, all to make the case that this was a big conspiracy to make Hamas look worse than what they already did?

Rape denial for political reasons. Really horrible stuff.

If we all just don't swallow the propaganda whole like you have, there's something wrong with us. Ooooh the New York Times did an article guys! It's confirmed!

Ooooooohh Ryan Grim is shoddy journalist and basic fact checking that anyone can do shows it, but ignore that! THE NYT IS DISCREDITED and the geniuses at Intercept have uncovered a vast jewish conspiracy to make Hamas look slightly worse than they are.

The mother was interviewed and was surprised to learn months later that apparently now her daughter had been r*ped

View attachment 2079336

It looks like they told Gal's mother lies, like the poor woman hadn't suffered enough.

View attachment 2079338

Look at the falsehoods they will construct for even the victim's families. If we are to believe this story, Gal was r*ped then killed in the space of 5 minutes with her husband watching. Hamas then left him alive for 45 minutes, with his phone communicating with his family, asking them to take care of his children.

They told her there were witnesses, more lies.

Then they flat out lied in the article:

View attachment 2079210

They did not fear she had been r*ped at all, until Anat came up with her magical 'cross-examination of evidence'.

View attachment 2079216

In fact, the people Anat spoke to about Gal's case were not actually in the investigative team, and the footage had not even been examined when the article was released. The 'journalists' writing this story were making up the facts to suit them as went along!

Nagi's brother sure thinks the NYT story is horseshit:

View attachment 2079224

This is just nonsense taking advantage of the confusion of the situation to try and build a narrative on hearsay.

The operative part is telling the photographer they needed it for hasbara, not the repeated asking.

So you dont know what the word means I guess. I'm sure it sounds scary to you though. The fact that the faux journalists over at Intercept characterized that exchange as "pressured" and you paraphrased it as harrassment says just what kind of narrative is trying to be built. Not one that's grounded in reality.

TL; DR the NYT article is not slightly discredited. The only reason you post denial of this rape is not because they have been disproven, but because you don't like what it says about Hamas or Palestinians (I don't believe it says anything about Palestinians for the record) and you think its a big Jewish hasbara conspiracy that the NYT, America, Israel, UN investigators, and others are in on for reasons. Your willingness to believe the stories you like has lead you to uncritically believe the narrative spun by The Intercept.

 

[DapperDon]

This Zioninst/Israeli/Jew says no to sexual criminals.

If only your government thought the same

How Jewish American pedophiles hide from justice in Israel

One woman who helps track suspects down says the little-discussed problem is widespread; "the exact same thing" as the sex abuse scandal in the Catholic Church.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[_Mike_]

He has a bad track record of dubious activities with minors. Careful who you follow.

Uuuugh… that’s…. Awkward

 

[ZEV]

Gaza: Hamas says guards killed hostage and wounded two others

The Israeli military says it does not have any information to refute or confirm Hamas’s statement.

www.bbc.com

Hamas executes hostage. Shoots two more, in life threatening conditions.

Lunchlady Doris attempts to deny rape and Ghosty and Dapper Don try and throw out peadophile slurs.