Current WAR CRIMES Israel - Hamas - Hezbollah - Houthis

[Kurve]

The nutjob settlers have always done this. Any time there is conflict they use it as a time to expand the settlements. But they are a minority in Israel. The majority want peace and to not have every single one of their neighbours (and ironically bleeding hearts the world over) wishing for their annihilation.

There's over 700,000 of them at about 10%, with 6% of them voting for the Religious Zionist Party which is quite significant. Especially when Bibi's struggled to form government.

Can anyone name 2 countries in the middle east where noone cares if youre gay or a woman ?

People can still get weird about those things here but Jordan for example, decriminalised gay sex a long time ago, if strictish public morality laws still hold.

 

[Kurve]

We'll have to wait and see what Israel's response will be to the UN, as requested.

 

[HairyO]

There's over 700,000 of them at about 10%, with 6% of them voting for the Religious Zionist Party which is quite significant. Especially when Bibi's struggled to form government.



People can still get weird about those things here but Jordan for example, decriminalised gay sex a long time ago, if strictish public morality laws still hold.

Jordan have religious police who routinely go after gay people. I mean Saudi Arabia had a law allowing women to have some rights decades ago but havent quite got around to enacting them and allowing women to do things like drive cars and not get beaten if outside unaccompanied by a male family member.

 

[Kurve]

Jordan have religious police who routinely go after gay people. I mean Saudi Arabia had a law allowing women to have some rights decades ago but havent quite got around to enacting them and allowing women to do things like drive cars and not get beaten if outside unaccompanied by a male family member.

Saudi Arabia is actually really moving forward on women's rights, women don't have to wear niqab or even hijab any more and they can attend mixed sporting and music events. Over 40,000 women now have their drivers license.

I watched video of a Saudi outdoor concert recently, hardly any face veils and there were women at a boxing tournament.

It's said the privileged classes are benefitting first and most but even if it's true, that should help pave the way.

 

[HairyO]

Saudi Arabia is actually really moving forward on women's rights, women don't have to wear niqab or even hijab any more and they can attend mixed sporting and music events. Over 40,000 women now have their drivers license.

I watched video of a Saudi outdoor concert recently, hardly any face veils and there were women at a boxing tournament.

It's said the privileged classes are benefitting first and most but even if it's true, that should help pave the way.

So the very extended family of the Crown Prince get a couple of perks. Compared to a country that is as equal as any other western country.

Muslims in Israel have far more rights than in any other Middle East country.

 

[Kurve]

So the very extended family of the Crown Prince get a couple of perks. Compared to a country that is as equal as any other western country.

Muslims in Israel have far more rights than in any other Middle East country.

Well, I'd probably agree and we're right to expect more from Israel as an ally than some of what we've seen and the really repugnant kind of rhetoric we've been hearing from their government.

For example, Ben Gvir as the Minister for National Defence is promoting ideas of wholly ethnically cleansing Gaza.

 

[jason_recliner]

Muslims in Israel have far more rights than in any other Middle East country.

What about the right not to get slaughtered?

 

[HairyO]

What about the right not to get slaughtered?

The ones in Israel are getting slaughtered?

Maybe the ones in the rest of the ME should stop supporting terrorists.

 

[jason_recliner]

The ones in Israel are getting slaughtered?

For all practical purposes, yes.

 

[HairyO]

For all practical purposes, yes.

Got evidence of this?

 

[jason_recliner]

Got evidence of this?

How is Gaza not, for all practical purposes, part of Israel?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

The problem with Israel's conflict with multiple arab Muslim countries that surround it isn't that they are overreacting or too demanding. Rather it's that as a principle those countries simply don't want Israel to exist ( being endemic to the Muslim faith) and simultaneously resort to horrific terrorist atrocities against Israel using terrorist organizations as affiliates. it would happen regularly only Israel has military superiority. Israel has offered 16 times to have something resulting in a two state solution and all have been rejected.

Personally I feel Israel has a right to defend itself and do what's required to destroy Hamas and any other obstacle. if at days end that also turns the surrounds into a unoccupied wasteland then perhaps they should have contemplated the consequences before burning defenceless babies to cinders or for that matter voting in a terrorist organization that doesn't govern but exists to destroy Israel and other non Muslim opposition ie USA

A geopolitical phrase exists ..."from the river to the sea" describing what Palestine considers their territory. That of course includes the entirety of Israel. So Palestine don't see a 2 state solution and will never compromise. Palestine and the Arab world were allies of Hitler and because Germany and Hitler failed dismally Israel was created in the post war aftermath in 1948. The Arab world could live in peace with a 2 state solution but the starting point is acceptance that Israel has a right to exist. They can't despite Israel repeatedly gifting lands to appease them. if Israel were Arab Muslim this dispute would have ceased to exist very early on 1950s. It only continues now because instead they are non Muslim jews. So I stand with Israel to now force their right to exist 75 years on.

Every time you see a protest with Palestinian flags being waved understand that what they want is essentially eradication of Israel and it's people. Its's not an oppressed minority fighting for existence (because that's been offered) but a radicalized terrorist organization intent on genocide for all Israelis

 

[HairyO]

How is Gaza not, for all practical purposes, part of Israel?

So Israel installed Hamas as the government ?

 

[Angry Red Bull]

So Israel installed Hamas as the government ?

No Palestinian people did as elected party in a democratic vote

They voted a terrorist organization into power

And what they then got was a 'government' that diverted every available resource to building tunnels and rockets

 

[Kurve]

No Palestinian people did as elected party in a democratic vote

They voted a terrorist organization into power

And what they then got was a 'government' that diverted every available resource to building tunnels and rockets

The people elected Hamas who ran on an anti corruption platform, over Fatah. No elections from then on but the West Bank doesn't hold elections either, not since 2006. Some I've spoken to which was a few years ago now, quietly expressed they want to be under Israeli law with freedoms and opportunity on mind.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

The people elected Hamas who ran on an anti corruption platform, over Fatah. No elections from then on but the West Bank doesn't hold elections either, not since 2006. Some I've spoken to which was a few years ago now, quietly expressed they want to be under Israeli law with freedoms and opportunity on mind.

In one of the many changes in territory many Muslim arabs were left stranded in Israel and were welcomed I understand with a phase in toward equal rights providing there was no unrest. There wasn't and all are now assimilated and have same rights. That is a model for what could happen in a two state system if it were allowed to happen and the focus became infrastructure and prosperity

 

[jason_recliner]

Nobody on this board (I imagine) supports Hamas and their terrorist attacks on Israel, and Israel has a right to defend themselves from the terrorists. Similarly, I would have thought nobody on this board would support Israel's mass murder of tens of thousands of innocent civilians, and likely hundreds of thousands of casualties.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Nobody on this board (I imagine) supports Hamas and their terrorist attacks on Israel, and Israel has a right to defend themselves from the terrorists. Similarly, I would have thought nobody on this board would support Israel's mass murder of tens of thousands of innocent civilians, and likely hundreds of thousands of casualties.

Get your facts correct. Israel chooses to destroy infrastructure of Hamas. When they identify a site they make contact with residents informing them they will be bombed imminently and they and family should escape. More often than not the response is bomb away we'll become martyrs. How do I know this? Because I've listened to just such a taped conversation between Israeli military and a resident obtained by Ben Shapiro. When the person told the military that they wouldn't leave he then pleaded to get the children out and was told ..no they can become martyrs too.

It is undeniably a clash of religious beliefs. One values the sanctity of life. The other doesn't and rather values death .

The vast majority of casualties are like this. Israel gives a warning and Palestinians fail to heed warning. Often too the Palestinians engage in propaganda. What was portrayed was that Israeli military hit a hospital with a missile and 500 innocent people died. What actually happened was that a Palestinian misdirected rocket failed and hit a car park next to a hospital and destroyed several cars in a fire. Once again Ben Shapiro provided evidence

• Video footage of the car park and unaffected hospital
• Video of the Palestinians rocket and it explosion in suburbia
• Telemetry of the path of rocket
• Intercepted conversion of Palestinians Hamas talking about it being their rocket and friendly fire

No one wants innocent people to die. I believe Israel is handling the conflict appropriately. I have little doubt that some Israeli residents are seeking retribution for decades of missile threats..USA are reacting to that so as not to be seen as endorsing aggression because once they do it becomes possible for escalation which they want to discourage.

 

[jason_recliner]

Get your facts correct. Israel chooses to destroy infrastructure of Hamas. When they identify a site they make contact with residents informing them they will be bombed imminently and they and family should escape. More often than not the response is bomb away we'll become martyrs. How do I know this? Because I've listened to just such a taped conversation between Israeli military and a resident obtained by Ben Shapiro. When the person told the military that they wouldn't leave he then pleaded to get the children out and was told ..no they can become martyrs too.

It is undeniably a clash of religious beliefs. One values the sanctity of life. The other doesn't and rather values death .

The vast majority of casualties are like this. Israel gives a warning and Palestinians fail to heed warning. Often too the Palestinians engage in propaganda. What was portrayed was that Israeli military hit a hospital with a missile and 500 innocent people died. What actually happened was that a Palestinian misdirected rocket failed and hit a car park next to a hospital and destroyed several cars in a fire. Once again Ben Shapiro provided evidence

• Video footage of the car park
• Video of the Palestinians rocket and it explosion in suburbia
• Telemetry of the path of rocket
• Intercepted conversion of Palestinians Hamas talking about it being their rocket and friendly fire

Yeah, nah.

PS - BEN SHAPIRO!!! BWAHAHAHAAhhahahahahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!

 

[Bostonian]

Nobody on this board (I imagine) supports Hamas and their terrorist attacks on Israel, and Israel has a right to defend themselves from the terrorists. Similarly, I would have thought nobody on this board would support Israel's mass murder of tens of thousands of innocent civilians, and likely hundreds of thousands of casualties.

The problem with this conflict is it's unknown who are the innocent civilians.

They have without a doubt been adding the deaths of combatants and Hamas supporters into the "innocent civilians" figures from the get go.

I don't consider those people innocent in any way.

IMO Hamas have less concern for the safety of the actual innocent Palestinians than the Israelis do.

So the Palestinians with no allegiance to either side are totally screwed.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Yeah, nah.

PS - BEN SHAPIRO!!! BWAHAHAHAAhhahahahahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!

That response doesn't surprise me

 

[Kurve]

Get your facts correct. Israel chooses to destroy infrastructure of Hamas. When they identify a site they make contact with residents informing them they will be bombed imminently and they and family should escape. More often than not the response is bomb away we'll become martyrs. How do I know this? Because I've listened to just such a taped conversation between Israeli military and a resident obtained by Ben Shapiro. When the person told the military that they wouldn't leave he then pleaded to get the children out and was told ..no they can become martyrs too.

It is undeniably a clash of religious beliefs. One values the sanctity of life. The other doesn't and rather values death .

The vast majority of casualties are like this. Israel gives a warning and Palestinians fail to heed warning. Often too the Palestinians engage in propaganda. What was portrayed was that Israeli military hit a hospital with a missile and 500 innocent people died. What actually happened was that a Palestinian misdirected rocket failed and hit a car park next to a hospital and destroyed several cars in a fire. Once again Ben Shapiro provided evidence

• Video footage of the car park
• Video of the Palestinians rocket and it explosion in suburbia
• Telemetry of the path of rocket
• Intercepted conversion of Palestinians Hamas talking about it being their rocket and friendly fire

Ben Shapiro only gives one side to amplify if I agree about the failed Hamas rocket that hit the carpark.

Meanwhile, there are what appear to be credible reports that IDF are engaging in field executions, a war crime which will need to be fully investigated. I like to think as our democratic ally and answerable, they probably wouldn't do that but given some of the rhetoric we've been hearing from the Israeli government and what looks like a free rein the settlers are given, I'm not so sure. I also believe Israel's using foreign mercenaries.

Hamas have been rounding up male civilians, where they could be taking them in these circumstances is frightening and I don't put it past them to kill who they perceive to be collaborators or even for a word against. Some Gazans are raising protests against Hamas and want them out, the numbers imo aren't big enough to achieve anything but get more of them killed.

I don't think Israel can pull out now, if the only right position to take is to ask for a ceasefire and to stop the bombing. I'm pretty sure it will get worse for Gazans if they did leaving a massive security vacuum and the right conditions for civil war.

 

[jason_recliner]

The problem with this conflict is it's unknown who are the innocent civilians.

They have without a doubt been adding the deaths of combatants and Hamas supporters into the "innocent civilians" figures from the get go.

I don't consider those people innocent in any way.

IMO Hamas have less concern for the safety of the actual innocent Palestinians than the Israelis do.

So the Palestinians with no allegiance to either side are totally screwed.

That's not the point. Hamas is a criminal organisation. Israel is a sovereign State. They have a duty and legal obligation not to murder innocent people. If they can't drop thousands of bombs on a densely populated region without killing 25,000+ innocent civilians (most of the dead are women and children), they need to do things differently. Send in troops, send in Mossad, door-to-door surgically ID and and detain (or kill) the Hamas criminals. A criminal act against a State does NOT authorise mass-murder of civilians under any law. And then there's murder being morally and ethically reprehensible (to most).

 

[Kurve]

That's not the point. Hamas is a criminal organisation. Israel is a sovereign State. They have a duty and legal obligation not to murder innocent people. If they can't drop thousands of bombs on a densely populated region without killing 25,000+ innocent people, they need to do things differently. Send in troops, send in Mossad, door-to-door surgically ID and and detain (or kill) the Hamas criminals. A criminal act against a State does NOT authorise mass-murder of civilians under any law.

The UN didn't order a ceasefire and I was leaning towards thinking they might. Israel could 'technically' be covered here with their prior alerts indicating where they're going to be bombing and asking civilians to leave.

 

[jason_recliner]

The UN didn't order a ceasefire and I was leaning towards thinking they might. Israel could 'technically' be covered here with their prior alerts indicating where they're going to be bombing and asking civilians to leave.

I'm not sure the UN can order a ceasfire without the US ordering it (i.e. full Security Council support, no vetoes or abstaining). Regardless, it doesn't change that dropping letters is having little effect, thousands of women and children have been murdered, and the Israeli government chooses to continue murdering more. It's disgusting and will be a stain on Israel for a very long time, like the holocaust is on Germany.