Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 2

[Gethelred]

This is a sensitive area for some. With that in mind, I'm going to remind a few posters a few things:

• personal attacks are against forum rules. From this point, any attacks that are directed at another poster will be treated with a warning, then infractions and threadbans if it continues.
• the spread of misinformation is also against the rules. This is taken very seriously by moderation, and you will be asked to support your opinion from time to time. If you cannot satisfy this, you will be provided an opportunity to retract your post; if you do not, you will receive an infraction and a threadban on that basis.

This is a forum for adults, and I'd appreciate you all treating each other appropriately.

 

[Rotayjay]

While we've been watching China and Taiwan looking for the next war, it is looking increasingly likely that Vladimir Putin's Russia will invade Ukraine. Will that happen and what would that mean for Ukrainians, the world and Australia?

I think Russia will invade, Biden will wag his finger and say tsk tsk. Then the EU and US impose sanctions and Putin installs a puppet government in Ukraine. That's just me eyeballing the situation without analysing it or being a geopolitics expert.

I just can't see America going to war over an Eastern European country that is not a traditional ally like Australia or France. If they do go to war, all us men of military age would be liable for conscription. There may be nuclear war in the extreme (and extremely unlikely) scenario, and in that case you can kiss your arse goodbye.

 

[wannabejack]

Russia has a history of human rights violation.

Russia committed human rights violation in Georgia war, ECHR rules

European court of human rights: Moscow responsible for murder of civilians, and looting and burning of homes

www.theguardian.com

 

[CD Xbow]

This is a really interesting article about electronic warfare and problems with Russian coms. Electronic Weapons: A Failure To Communicate
It is clearly one of the reasons the invasion 'special operation' was so disorganised.

 

[Zidane98]

This is a really interesting article about electronic warfare and problems with Russian coms. Electronic Weapons: A Failure To Communicate
It is clearly one of the reasons the invasion 'special operation' was so disorganised.

Easy to eavesdrop on their comms aswell.

 

[footyfan1978]

Current events remind me of Josef Stalin descendant on tv I saw last decade.

 

[Jello_B]

Hopefully it doesn’t go that long, that’s a lot more innocent people dead.

 

[Jello_B]

Bucha is also a graveyard for abandoned military vehicles. Both posts are of Volkzalnaya St.

Ok dumb question, but how does an armoured vehicle like those in the photos / video become soooooo destroyed. It looks like King Kong put his foot on a couple of those vehicles.

 

[Mobbs]

Ok dumb question, but how does an armoured vehicle like those in the photos / video become soooooo destroyed. It looks like King Kong put his foot on a couple of those vehicles.

Way over my head. Kindah glad I am ignorant of the answer

 

[Festerz]

I know other people have debunked the map.

I just want to add one more thing. 141 countries voted in favour of condemning the Russian invasion at the UN.

Yeah I understand your point and accept that the map is, at best, highly misleading and based on assumptions that are not fully explained.

I posted the map from a screen shot in good faith after seeing it this morning (our time) on a credible US news program (CBS Face the Nation) in a segment involving a highly credentialed interviewee Dr Fiona Hill - former Director of the US National Security Council specialising in Russian and European Affairs. As per my previous post a link to that secific point in the discussion is shown here:



I posted it here because it did not align with my understanding of the nature and extent of global sanctions against Russia and thought I would share it with the group given that fact.

There was no intention to mislead or make a political statement in posting the map which was clearly inaccurate.

I regret any offence or annoyance caused.

 

[madmug]

Ok dumb question, but how does an armoured vehicle like those in the photos / video become soooooo destroyed. It looks like King Kong put his foot on a couple of those vehicles.

When hit, they have fuel & internal armaments which explode, tearing them to bits.

Or, they are so poorly built they fall to bits when hit by rocks.

Take your pick, or a combination of both possibilities.

 

[Zidane98]

In yet another fail Russian state tv published a news report about cleansing in the area on April 1.

I guess they could always claim that as an April fools joke.

 

[rjslcM]

I've read the whole air travel industry will mostly grind to a halt within 4-6 weeks even with Putin officially stealing aircraft from leasing companies.


All that will be left will be a few western aircraft plus whatever Russian made aircraft are left in the fleets (not many).


This is a country that is absolutely reliant on air travel. It will be disastrous for food supplies / shortages etc. Currently a train trip from European Russia to the far east takes the best part of a week. Good luck keeping up food supplies using just that.

Will this impact them enough before their May 9 target?

 

[Jbudds]

In yet another fail Russian state tv published a news report about cleansing in the area on April 1.

I guess they could always claim that as an April fools joke.

Thank goodness for that!

 

[Mobbs]

Extended processing of Bucha "claims" per this long post by Journalist Dmitri Kolezev. I reconfigured the positioning of the links so that they wouldn't resolve within the quote into embeds that made the article too long for readers.

Bucha: evidence and evidence

A day ago, we had only a few photos and videos from Bucha, which shocked everyone. Now there is much more evidence - other photos, videos, and most importantly - eyewitness accounts, including those recorded by independent journalists and human rights organizations. Here are some links:

Deputy from Bucha Katerina Ukraintseva talks about how the city lived during the occupation

Stories from Bucha residents

The story of local resident Vladislav Kozlovsky about what happened in Bucha, including the executions

Short video from Mediazona, two minutes - frame-by-frame analysis of the video, which in telegram channels began to be called a fake, because supposedly “corpses are moving” there (here is a video in good quality and you can see that no one is moving there)

CNN report from Bucha, where locals show the corpses of civilians lying in the yards.

NY Times video from Bucha, also civilian corpses with their hands tied.

Regarding the argument “But Bucha was released already on March 30-April 1” and there are no corpses there was: video with corpses from April 1
post 1 post 2

Human Rights Watch report on war crimes, including those that took place in Bucha.
(if anyone suddenly thinks that HRW is a pro-Western organization and is acting against Russia, then here is their statement about the torture of Russian prisoners).

In fact, there is already a ton of stuff on the internet, including from credible media outlets. If you want to find information, just turn on the VPN and start googling the word Bucha. If you want to calm down and brush it off, you can turn on the TV or read the statement of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation "you are all lying."

In summary: the number of evidence confirming the involvement of Russian troops (including Kadyrov's men) in the killings of civilians is growing. From the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, we have so far only a statement that this is all fake, not a single civilian (!) In Bucha was injured (and they said so). This, just in case, I remind you, is said by approximately the same people in whom Navalny poisoned himself, a Boeing MH-17 shot down a Ukrainian fighter, and Russia did not attack Ukraine.

 

[Lethality]

Hopefully it doesn’t go that long, that’s a lot more innocent people dead.

I'm ignorant as to the ways of war, but I think every civilian needs to be a soldier over there in Donbass at least. Get a gun if you can, or a knife, or a molotov, helmets, etc. So you can at least defend yourselves. Maybe they were already doing that. I just see too many seemingly unprepared civilians on the news. Their courage is beyond impressive, but I wonder why they're not armed or properly attired for combat, etc.

 

[Lethality]

 

[Mobbs]

I just read a post on a Russian TG telegram website where InformNapalm (a pro-Ukrainian activist group within Ukraine - I think) claim to have worked out who the commander was that could be pinned leading those troops who would have been responsible for the Bucha atrocities.
The post doxxes the person's name, email, address & phone number.
It's not confirmed anywhere else I can see that this info is correct, so I won't link or quote it here. But I will put aside for later.

So to fill the gap, here's a shop window in Dublin.

 

[Zidane98]

Id like to hear the Russian MFA explain away all the eyewitness accounts, videos and evidence of Ukranians bound and murdered in Bucha.

This is on Putin personally. He sent troops in there with the aim of terrorizing and demoralising the civillian population.

 

[Mobbs]

Id like to hear the Russian MFA explain away all the eyewitness accounts, videos and evidence of Ukranians bound and murdered in Bucha.

The Kremlin said that in the information about the alleged mass death of the civilian population in Ukraine through the fault of Russia, signs of video forgery and fakes with unreliable facts were revealed. "We categorically deny any allegations" - RIA Kremlinpool (timestamped about an hour ago if I can do maths right)

 

[Zidane98]

The Kremlin said that in the information about the alleged mass death of the civilian population in Ukraine through the fault of Russia, signs of video forgery and fakes with unreliable facts were revealed. "We categorically deny any allegations" - RIA Kremlinpool (timestamped about an hour ago if I can do maths right)

No explanation just a flat denial. Embarrassing. Thats how my 4 year old reacts when in trouble for doing something. Response is either its not me or it was his brother. He could get a job in Kremlin propaganda department it seems.

 

[Lethality]

Id like to hear the Russian MFA explain away all the eyewitness accounts, videos and evidence of Ukranians bound and murdered in Bucha.

This is on Putin personally. He sent troops in there with the aim of terrorizing and demoralising the civillian population.

It's on everyone participating. Zelensky has offered amnesty, and even rewards for troops who don't want to participate in the war. It's still a hard decision to make, but it has to be better than murdering unarmed civilians.

 

[Zidane98]

I just read a post on a Russian TG telegram website where InformNapalm (a pro-Ukrainian activist group within Ukraine - I think) claim to have worked out who the commander was that could be pinned leading those troops who would have been responsible for the Bucha atrocities.
The post doxxes the person's name, email, address & phone number.
It's not confirmed anywhere else I can see that this info is correct, so I won't link or quote it here. But I will put aside for later.

So to fill the gap, here's a shop window in Dublin.

That commander wont be amongst the living for much longer.

 

[76woodenspooners]

I'm ignorant as to the ways of war, but I think every civilian needs to be a soldier over there in Donbass at least. Get a gun if you can, or a knife, or a molotov, helmets, etc. So you can at least defend yourselves. Maybe they were already doing that. I just see too many seemingly unprepared civilians on the news. Their courage is beyond impressive, but I wonder why they're not armed or properly attired for combat, etc.

Ukraine re-introduced national service for males after the 2014 annexation of Crimea. Service is for 18 months.

Ukraine’s army has been growing significantly post 2014 which makes it more difficult to equip reservists. Especially as Ukraine has a small economy (around 75% of the size of New Zealand’s).

 

[footyfan1978]

No explanation just a flat denial. Embarrassing. Thats how my 4 year old reacts when in trouble for doing something. Response is either its not me or it was his brother. He could get a job in Kremlin propaganda department it seems.

He is 4.
He not an adult killing people.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

No explanation just a flat denial. Embarrassing. Thats how my 4 year old reacts when in trouble for doing something. Response is either its not me or it was his brother. He could get a job in Kremlin propaganda department it seems.

Make sure he checks that he's not getting paid in rubles first.