Wayne Carey and Corey Mckernan or Lance Franklin and Jarryd Roughead?

[liam_13]

I think people only remember Corey at the end of his career (short memories are far too common on Bigfooty). At his peak he was one of the top players in the game. Roughhead, with all due respect, has never performed at that level.

I think the fact McKernan only had the one real standout, top of the league year doesn't help either. Not to say he was only average in other years, he had some very good other years, but he never reached those heights again.

Roughead is a fine player - due to the position he plays and McKernan played - he has never got close to McKernan 96.

 

[BlueJet]

I think the fact McKernan only had the one real standout, top of the league year doesn't help either. Not to say he was only average in other years, he had some very good other years, but he never reached those heights again.

Roughead is a fine player - due to the position he plays and McKernan played - he has never got close to McKernan 96.

Still, one season as an absolute top notch player should be enough to place him above Roughhead. McKernan also would've won the rising star (suspension) and was close to b.o.g. in the '99 GF.
Sure he fell away quite a bit from there on but to say that he was comfortably worse than Roughead as others have is rubbish.

 

[liam_13]

Still, one season as an absolute top notch player should be enough to place him above Roughhead. McKernan also would've won the rising star (suspension) and was close to b.o.g. in the '99 GF.
Sure he fell away quite a bit from there on but to say that he was comfortably worse than Roughead as others have is rubbish.

Oh, yeah I agree that his one season does place him above. I was just suggesting why some have poor memories.

 

[jacko57]

I think the fact McKernan only had the one real standout, top of the league year doesn't help either. Not to say he was only average in other years, he had some very good other years, but he never reached those heights again.

Roughead is a fine player - due to the position he plays and McKernan played - he has never got close to McKernan 96.

Which was what year? 95, 96, 97 (despite injury restrictions), 98? Even 99, IIRC was a bit patchy, but included some standout games.

 

[liam_13]

Which was what year? 95, 96, 97 (despite injury restrictions), 98? Even 99, IIRC was a bit patchy, but included some standout games.

96.

Don't think he was at Carey's level in the other years, which is what I was referring to. 95 and 98 were great seasons, 97 and 99 were good but like you said patchy, but I think his performance in 96 was far and away his best.

 

[jacko57]

96.

Don't think he was at Carey's level in the other years, which is what I was referring to. 95 and 98 were great seasons, 97 and 99 were good but like you said patchy, but I think his performance in 96 was far and away his best.

From 95-98, I think he was generally rated in the top 10 in the AFL.

 

[liam_13]

From 95-98, I think he was generally rated in the top 10 in the AFL.

I was only a kid but 96 is the year that stands out to me. Fair enough. Either way Roughead has not got near the heights he reached.

 

[jacko57]

I was only a kid but 96 is the year that stands out to me. Fair enough. Either way Roughead has not got near the heights he reached.

Agreed on that. And that isn't a knock on Roughy.

 

[liam_13]

Agreed on that. And that isn't a knock on Roughy.

Not at all, Roughead is a fine player and not many players have got 70+ goals in the last 6/7 years.

 

[WWSD]

Not at all, Roughead is a fine player and not many players have got 70+ goals in the last 6/7 years.

The last six years Roughead has kicked 40,75,51,53,16,41. Averages about 2.2 goals a match during that time. Not bad for a second tall forward. The most impressive thing is that he doesn't get half the delivery that Franklin gets, yet he still manages to do well. I reckon if Roughead was playing for another Club and they needed a key forward to be that number one target, he would excell at that.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Comparing the careers of Roughead and McKernan is hard as Roughead has mostly played FF while McKernan was more of a ruck/forward.

This is played out by the fact that Roughead is only a handful of goals shy of McKernan's career tally - and Roughy is only halfway through.

Really only in 2012 did Roughead have his first full season in the ruck/forward role and despite coming back from an achilles, he did pretty well.

In fact, he picked up more possessions than any year McKernan had bar 1996 (Corey had 31 more poss from 1 more game), more goals than any year McKernan had and more tackles than any year McKernan had. McKernan had 3 better years for hitouts and 9 worse years.

 

[KillaKanga]

Comparing the careers of Roughead and McKernan is hard as Roughead has mostly played FF while McKernan was more of a ruck/forward.

This is played out by the fact that Roughead is only a handful of goals shy of McKernan's career tally - and Roughy is only halfway through.

Really only in 2012 did Roughead have his first full season in the ruck/forward role and despite coming back from an achilles, he did pretty well.

In fact, he picked up more possessions than any year McKernan had bar 1996 (Corey had 31 more poss from 1 more game), more goals than any year McKernan had and more tackles than any year McKernan had. McKernan had 3 better years for hitouts and 9 worse years.

I'm sold Roughead is clearly better than McKernan.

Bradd Dalzeill and Liam Anthony are elite midfielders too

 

[Guardian Hawk]

I'm sold Roughead is clearly better than McKernan.

Bradd Dalzeill and Liam Anthony are elite midfielders too

Huh? My post mentioned nothing about Roughead being better than McKernan. I said it was hard to compare as they have mostly played different roles.

The only 'statistical' analysis used was to support my assertion that Roughead's first full year in the ruck was decent, especially coming back from an achilles. Do you disagree?

 

[KillaKanga]

Huh? My post mentioned nothing about Roughead being better than McKernan. I said it was hard to compare as they have mostly played different roles.

The only 'statistical' analysis used was to support my assertion that Roughead's first full year in the ruck was decent, especially coming back from an achilles. Do you disagree?

Then you go on to compare them. Roughead is only a handful of goals behind McKernan. Has had more possessions in a season baring '97.

If you were older than 10 from 1992 and saw McKernan during his career and then Roughie. A neutral 99 times out of 100 would say McKernan had a better career (yes Roughie isn't finished but his best hasn't been close to McKernan's) McKernan had more impact. It's no slight on Roughie but McKernan in another team in the 90's would probably be held in even higher regard.

My estimation McKernan 10 possessions >> Roughies 15

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Then you go on to compare them. Roughead is only a handful of goals behind McKernan. Has had more possessions in a season baring '97.

If you were older than 10 from 1992 and saw McKernan during his career and then Roughie. A neutral 99 times out of 100 would say McKernan had a better career (yes Roughie isn't finished but his best hasn't been close to McKernan's) McKernan had more impact. It's no slight on Roughie but McKernan in another team in the 90's would probably be held in even higher regard.

My estimation McKernan 10 possessions >> Roughies 15

I wasn't comparing in the way you have deduced. In both instances, I made an observation that I supported with statistical evidence.

The first of these was that Roughy has been more of a FF whilst McKernan more of a ruck/forward. I highlighted how many goals Roughy has kicked compared to Corey to illustrate this point.

My second point was that Roughead's first full season as a ruck/forward was decent. I supported this observation by comparing his season statistically to the peak years of McKernan, who is probably the best (and most recent) example of an elite ruck forward.

 

[KillaKanga]

I wasn't comparing in the way you have deduced. In both instances, I made an observation that I supported with statistical evidence.

The first of these was that Roughy has been more of a FF whilst McKernan more of a ruck/forward. I highlighted how many goals Roughy has kicked compared to Corey to illustrate this point.

My second point was that Roughead's first full season as a ruck/forward was decent. I supported this observation by comparing his season statistically to the peak years of McKernan, who is probably the best (and most recent) example of an elite ruck forward.

Cool far enough. I'm not here to troll or argue.

Who'd you vote for?

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Carey and McKernan - an earlier post in this thread highlighted I thought it was those two easily (based on McKernan's peak in '96).

 

[King Corey]

Not going to bother with the comparisons themselves as I don't watch hawthorn enough to have buddy/roughead dislodge Carey/McKernan as the preferred pair.

But for those of those unaware, Corey had the happy knack of producing his best football in finals. He could be pretty much asleep for the H&A but come September he'd come to life. I'd say in terms of playing to his own max - he played better in finals than Carey did.

 

[jacko57]

Not going to bother with the comparisons themselves as I don't watch hawthorn enough to have buddy/roughead dislodge Carey/McKernan as the preferred pair.

But for those of those unaware, Corey had the happy knack of producing his best football in finals. He could be pretty much asleep for the H&A but come September he'd come to life. I'd say in terms of playing to his own max - he played better in finals than Carey did.

He had vg GFs in 96 and 99, though so did Carey. Not BOG, 20 mark, 6 goal games, but still an important & influential player.

Both played stinkers in 98, but who didn't?

GFs aside, I'd say Carey had more dominant games in September than Corey did.

 

[footscore]

lol
who ever started this thread must be a teenager

Mckernan was actually a brownlow medalist but he got rubbed out for a week but that in itself kind of puts this thread into perspective as Roughead wouldn't even be half the player Corey was in his prime and I doubt he ever will be given his run with injuries as of late.

Franklin v Carey....ummm, no match as Carey was a far more brilliant mark, kick and big game performer while Franklin is more comparable to a Matthew Richardson due the exceptional running athleticism for players that size.

I'd choose Carey & Mckernan and I think they'd beat the other two 8 times out of 10 if they played an exhibition match against one another.

 

[Sanders]

Roughie has never been the best player in the game, and has probably never been in the top 10 at any time.

Its just silly to compare him to mckernan in terms of peak

 

[WWSD]

Roughie has never been the best player in the game, and has probably never been in the top 10 at any time.

Its just silly to compare him to mckernan in terms of peak

McKernan played as a ruckman/forward for just about most of his career. Only the last two years has Roughead played that forward/2nd ruck. He played as a full forward from 2005-2010. The roles both players play is very similar, so there is some merit in the OP post. Of course McKernan is the better footballer overall.

 

[King Corey]

He had vg GFs in 96 and 99, though so did Carey. Not BOG, 20 mark, 6 goal games, but still an important & influential player.

Both played stinkers in 98, but who didn't?

GFs aside, I'd say Carey had more dominant games in September than Corey did.

Actually I don't reckon we can put GFs aside! That's where Corey shone. He was serviceable even in 98.

Carey had a ripper 94 finals series but after that I reckon Corey played to his max more in september than Wayne did. Of course carey had the higher max.

 

[Pykie]

Actually I don't reckon we can put GFs aside! That's where Corey shone. He was serviceable even in 98.

Carey had a ripper 94 finals series but after that I reckon Corey played to his max more in september than Wayne did. Of course carey had the higher max.

You can't just put 94 "aside", along with some of Gazza Snr's best work, it's the best finals performance of all time imo. Put's Carey pretty comfortably ahead of Corey on that series alone as finals performers imo.....

 

[Flawed Genius]

Can anyone see Roughead doing this?