Roast WC Need to do Something About Their Recruiting.

[eagles rule]

Simmo was just on the radio and said that there wasn't anybody in the 2s knocking the door down to force any changes, although he did admit with the short break there would probably be a couple of changes for Thursday night. Also you mention Le Cras above, but I think he's been fairly consistent so far this year - he kicked 3.4 on Saturday which was more than anybody else kicked. Okay he could have got more goals had he kicked straight, but at least he was thereabouts.

Lecras has been ok this year ,I was just citing a few examples based on last year where they had performed poorly but weren't given a run in the Wafl because Simmo has this attitude that they must be in the AFL team every week ..

 

[Galileo9]

A it of perspective. We kick 10.15 instead of 8.17 and we win the game and all this talk doesn't even happen.

Game is cut throat but it isn't that cut throat. Retract your pitchforks people.

 

[Godfather32]

A it of perspective. We kick 10.15 instead of 8.17 and we win the game and all this talk doesn't even happen.

Game is cut throat but it isn't that cut throat. Retract your pitchforks people.

Not sure what the result of Saturdays game has to do with our piss-poor recruiting, it was poor before Saturday.

 

[Keys]

A it of perspective. We kick 10.15 instead of 8.17 and we win the game and all this talk doesn't even happen.

Game is cut throat but it isn't that cut throat. Retract your pitchforks people.

Actually we still lose

By a point

 

[Monocle]

A it of perspective. We kick 10.15 instead of 8.17 and we win the game and all this talk doesn't even happen.

Game is cut throat but it isn't that cut throat. Retract your pitchforks people.

But that aside are you saying we haven't got a problem with our midfield.







If we had of adequately addressed our midfield issues in previous years drafting then maybe our midfield supply would have been better we may have scored 17.8.

I know a novel idea.

 

[Galileo9]

Not sure what the result of Saturdays game has to do with our piss-poor recruiting, it was poor before Saturday.

A granny and 16 wins last year prove otherwise.

 

[Galileo9]

View attachment 356199

But that aside are you saying we haven't got a problem with our midfield.



View attachment 356204



If we had of adequately addressed our midfield issues in previous years drafting then maybe our midfield supply would have been better we may have scored 17.8.

I know a novel idea.

I wish I had motivation to put in as much effort as u in posts.

Difficult to fix midfield and when u haven't got very high picks. When we did, It was compromised. Not saying midfield doesn't need more bodies. Not my fault u aren't patient and would like a premiership before you die due to your age.

 

[eagles rule]

Both very valid points and your assessments is spot on.

But it's also additional to who we recruit and our forward planning.

I will give you a couple of examples of where I am coming from.

We don't adequately forward plan and our list management is sub standard. IMO.

Kennedy is going to turn 30 this year and we all know that KPP particularly KPF take 4-5 years to develop and we only have Allen on our list that may be able to fill that role, so there is a shortfall of potential KPF's already on our list . Kennedy isn't going to be running around for us in four years so to me thats a .

Once Cox retired we needed to get a developing ruck man on our list ASAP , we got Sinkers who was a good cheap option.
Once we traded him in the ill fated Jetta trade we needed to take another young ruck man again .

I was pushing that we take Darcy Cameron as a rookie.
He has since had a very good 2016 in the WAFL as a KPF / Ruck Man...... Sydney swooped. Alas the has bolted.

We still didn't take a young ruck man even as a rookie at the last draft yet we re drafted Tunbridge ( who has more than enough chances ) so go figure.

We are hardly short of half backs , but we are desperately in need for another big bodied midfield extractor..... so we draft Tom Gorter and leave Bailey Banfield on the table.

We have kept the likes of Lucas , McGinnity, to but name a few, on our list way longer than we should have.

And don't get me started on another of my hobby horses.......We seem to go out of our way to recruit good citizens before we recruit good leaders and good footballers.
I have no doubt that the Cousin / Chick / Fletcher cluster F*** still to this day casts an ever present dark shadow over our recruiting.

Vardy fills the cheap ruck option and at +25 yrs old he can also resume as tall fwd when the regular rucks return ..

The drafting last year was pretty good I thought Venables and your guy Rotham plus my guy Rioli then Jake Waterman who will be a pretty good player as well ..

 

[Galileo9]

Actually we still lose

By a point

We kick 11.14 and we still win 3 mis shots doesn't equal rebuild and a riot

 

[Godfather32]

A granny and 16 wins last year prove otherwise.

Yeh, losing a GF and then going backwards the next season really is an achievement....
Read this chart and then tell me that our recruitment is great, we've virtually wasted the last 5 years, brought barely anything of value into the side.

I made this for another thread but it applies here as well, the numbers on how each team has drafted from the 2011 draft onward:
View attachment 355506

Our drafting and development has in fact been deplorable since 2011 in my opinion.

 

[Galileo9]

Yeh, losing a GF and then going backwards the next season really is an achievement....
Read this chart and then tell me that our recruitment is great, we've virtually wasted the last 5 years, brought barely anything of value into the side.

So Fremantle are one of best recruiters? Hawks one of worst? Some people were saying how good recruiters hawks are!

Ur table doesn't really tell the full story, does it?

 

[Galileo9]

Yeh, losing a GF and then going backwards the next season really is an achievement....
Read this chart and then tell me that our recruitment is great, we've virtually wasted the last 5 years, brought barely anything of value into the side.

Now best measure is no. of games per draft point? Or draft points per game. Something like that. That takes into account draft position.

 

[Biggie]

Same arguments thrown up day in day out

This is clearly a concern with the team, but they've been good enough to get the job somewhat done which gives support to the other side of the argument.

Quite frankly the mids aren't good enough when the heat is on, just recently displayed, but has been a trait since the GF 2015 and we will lose our greatest FF JJK to retirement and possibly NN as well before we (if we ever do) rectify the situation.

And so it goes on.

 

[Godfather32]

So Fremantle are one of best recruiters? Hawks one of worst? Some people were saying how good recruiters hawks are!

Ur table doesn't really tell the full story, does it?

No, you obviously have to interpret the data, but as I said it does show that we've brought virtually no players into our starting 22 in the last 5 years through the draft. Considering how average some of our starting 22 are do you not find that concerning?

 

[dirtyratz]

Why didnt the recruiters draft Liam Ryan? Thats what i want to know.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Why didnt the recruiters draft Liam Ryan? Thats what i want to know.

Beep test result.

 

[Galileo9]

No, you obviously have to interpret the data, but as I said it does show that we've brought virtually no players into our starting 22 in the last 5 years through the draft. Considering how average some of our starting 22 are do you not find that concerning?

Virtually no? Sheed and Duggan and nelson haven't been? Sheed had played 39 games mate. Duggan hardly a preseason. Now if you have written him off then ok. Barrass has come in.

I get presented a lot of stats each day. Every stat can be made to support your point. Key is which stat is true reflection of the state of affairs. Your stats do not accurately reflect what is going on. Sure would have been nice to hit a player with later picks but odds are low. Geelong were seen as best recruiters but how many have they hit lately?

But if u wish for your stats to suggest freo are one of best recruiters then ok. You are entitled to that. You will be laughed at.

 

[sey666]

I wish I had motivation to put in as much effort as u in posts.

Difficult to fix midfield and when u haven't got very high picks. When we did, It was compromised. Not saying midfield doesn't need more bodies. Not my fault u aren't patient and would like a premiership before you die due to your age.

We can't have more bodies in the midfield - only 18 are allowed at any one time. Are you saying that we need to bottom out in order to fix the midfield? Also not sure what Monocle 's age got to do with anything.

 

[Godfather32]

Virtually no? Sheed and Duggan and nelson haven't been? Sheed had played 39 games mate. Duggan hardly a preseason. Now if you have written him off then ok. Barrass has come in.

I get presented a lot of stats each day. Every stat can be made to support your point. Key is which stat is true reflection of the state of affairs. Your stats do not accurately reflect what is going on. Sure would have been nice to hit a player with later picks but odds are low. Geelong were seen as best recruiters but how many have they hit lately?

But if u wish for your stats to suggest freo are one of best recruiters then ok. You are entitled to that. You will be laughed at.

The stats from that chart show that our side is largely made up of draft picks from before 2011, our success in the last couple of years has been built on the back of recruits from before 2011. The 2011 part is significant because that's when Rohan O'brien took over as our head recruiter.
Sheed & Duggan seemingly aren't in our best 22, Duggan doesn't look like being there anytime soon. Barrass is the only one who is firmly entrenched in the 22 and even he was dropped for round one. If you can't look at that chart and see how it show's how poorly our recruitment and/or development has gone since 2011 then that's fine, but I think it's pretty self evident.
Answer me this though, can you honestly look over our drafts from 2011 onward and (besides Barrass) say to yourself that was a great pick, our recruiters really did a good job drafting that guy.

 

[Galileo9]

The stats from that chart show that our side is largely made up of draft picks from before 2011, our success in the last couple of years has been built on the back of recruits from before 2011. The 2011 part is significant because that's when Rohan O'brien took over as our head recruiter.
Sheed & Duggan seemingly aren't in our best 22, Duggan doesn't look like being there anytime soon. Barrass is the only one who is firmly entrenched in the 22 and even he was dropped for round one. If you can't look at that chart and see how it show's how poorly our recruitment and/or development has gone since 2011 then that's fine, but I think it's pretty self evident.
Answer me this though, can you honestly look over our drafts from 2011 onward and (besides Barrass) say to yourself that was a great pick, our recruiters really did a good job drafting that guy.

Given 50% of 100 gamers are from picks 20 or higher (or lower whichever way u want to look at it) and 70% of 200 gamers, then it's about average. Look where our draft picks have been mate.

Duggan and sheed are good players. Calm the f%*k down.

 

[dirtyratz]

Beep test result.

How bad was it? Was it much worse than Rioli ?

 

[Galileo9]

Furthermore godfather, since 2010, we have had only 4 top 20 picks. Only side worse than us? Hawks.

 

[boondy]

Because we ( our forum ) picked Pepper Powell . Any one of us could be a selector as long as we do all our research in this forum . As a resume just show the Eagles your username .

 

[Monocle]

Furthermore godfather, since 2010, we have had only 4 top 20 picks. Only side worse than us? Hawks.

Compelling argument there.

Since 2010 Hawthorn have made four Grand Finals and won Three.

Clearly not having many top 20 draft picks doesn't necessarily hamper a teams ability to win the Grand Final.

It sort of refutes your notion that the lack of early draft picks means West Coast cant attain the ultimate goal..

 

[Galileo9]

Compelling argument there.

Since 2010 Hawthorn have made four Grand Finals and won Three.

Clearly not having many top 20 draft picks doesn't necessarily hamper a teams ability to win the Grand Final.

It sort of refutes your notion that the lack of early draft picks means West Coast cant attain the ultimate goal..

Yeh? Their team was built on early draft picks so cut the crap. Topped up with a lot of trading and very few late picks that have "made it". Certainly not since early years.

Our drafting has been poor because picks have been poor.