Toast Welcome to Hawthorn, Finn Maginness “absolute Hawthorn nuffie” and a Hawk to 2025

[eldorado]

What sort of player do I expect from a pick 30?
Pretty simple , a regular in the 22 .
Not a specialist tagger who might come in one week, then is not needed the next week.

Picks at that range have proven to be a raffle in the past.

I think Finn is delivering something in the ballpark; i.e. could have been better, could have been worse...

 

[cryptor]

His game at VFL last week was very good. I don’t think being an aerobic freak and literally the best tagger in the league is his peak at AFL level.

 

[Yardie]

His game at VFL last week was very good. I don’t think being an aerobic freak and literally the best tagger in the league is his peak at AFL level.

As much as I loved Crazy Eyes he would do the same as well. Play really well at VFL but just couldn't translate it to AFL. Hope that Finn isn't the same but it just isn't clicking outside of tagging at the moment.

 

[humid hawk]

It's not just about tagging someone out of the game - it's about how it screws up your oppositions structure. If you can cut a vital player out of the game it can have ramifications all over the ground.

He is a great weapon to have.

 

[The Jet From Poowong]

Finn cops it on this forum for the first sign of a terrible kick. And as an AFL footballer you shake your head with some of the shockers. But the one thing you can never question is his desire and willingness to do everything the coaches ask of him. Usually the unglamorous stuff.

He runs all day and tackles and doesn’t avoid body contact. And he should continue to get a game as a result of this until his more skilled teammates show the same desire as he does.

 

[SSSSSS]

Finn2Hardwick was the start of our fight back.

 

[cryptor]

Ran 16.2km. Quaynor the next most with 14.2km.

Also ran the equal most distance at high speed. 2.6km. (tied with Quaynor and Ward)

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Prob his best offensive game for us.
Was kicking on his left a lot whcih was interesting to see

 

[The Spirit of Cricket]

Unfortunately his disposal is a real limiting factor but this was one of the most involved games he's played. Noticed him doing quite a few good things, just lacks execution by foot.

 

[kazzooka]

Prob his best offensive game for us.
Was kicking on his left a lot whcih was interesting to see

I noticed that a lot too, for a guy who struggles to hit targets consistently, perhaps sticking to the right might be a safer bet. Birchall had like 3 career kicks on his non-preferred, I think Finn had 4 yesterday.

 

[Hawker55]

Has his kicking gone backwards? I love that he can tag and he can certainly play a role - but someone like Shiels for example started as a tagger and then progressed as he learnt the patterns and improved his disposal.

I want Finn to be best 22 as he has a killer tank and having someone who can tag well is a godsend. He just needs to lift his disposal up to even a serviceable standard - currently it's barely VFL standard.

 

[VandoHawk]

Has his kicking gone backwards? I love that he can tag and he can certainly play a role - but someone like Shiels for example started as a tagger and then progressed as he learnt the patterns and improved his disposal.

I want Finn to be best 22 as he has a killer tank and having someone who can tag well is a godsend. He just needs to lift his disposal up to even a serviceable standard - currently it's barely VFL standard.

His link play and kicking at VFL level playing off half-back is good. Usually uses it decently which is why I find his complete breakdown at AFL level weird.

The increased pressure would contribute but perhaps being hyper fixated on a role detracts from other aspects of his game?

 

[Hawker55]

There was one point in the first I think where he tried to hit a 20 metre chip kick to a free man on half forward in the middle of the ground and with his left (with an incredibly clunky kicking action) hit it straight at the Pies player in between them. If it was a one off that's fine but he routinely misses simple passes which is why I was asking.

 

[Goatie]

Finn’s biggest asset apart from running is being able to win inside contested possessions, stand in the tackle and feed a handball out. Similar to Josh Kennedy (Syd).

The two things he struggles the most are decision making and then executing his skills. You only have 1-2 seconds at AFL level to make a decision and then execute.

I’m not sure if he can make it at AFL level but we have seen Worpel and Frost improve in this area.

 

[Iceman!]

Finn’s biggest asset apart from running is being able to win inside contested possessions and stand in the tackle and feed a handball out. Similar to Josh Kennedy (Syd).

The two things he struggles the most are Decision Making and then executing his skills. You only 1-2 seconds at AFL level to make a decision and then execute.

I’m not sure if he can make it at AFL level but we have seen Worpel and Frost improve in this area.

Eh Frost has a very specific role he can play that hides his weaknesses. Lock down defender and when you get rid of the ball take the first and easiest option. It is different as an inside mid, much harder to hide the lack of skills.

Worpel is elite at finding the ball and winning it, Finn has not shown that same ability. Also Worpel has average to below average foot skills but he can get by. Finn legit is not close to AFL standard in that area.

 

[BobHawk]

There was a moment when Finn had the ball in the back pocket and Sicily ran a long way to present him with a simple short pass. His kicking is no secret and we can hope that he keeps improving because if he can fix that and his decision making he will be one hell of a footballer. I remember Joey Kennedy was similar early and he worked very hard on his body, fitness and skills and it clicked. Just like that.

 

[Flukey!]

Ran 16.2km. Quaynor the next most with 14.2km.

Also ran the equal most distance at high speed. 2.6km. (tied with Quaynor and Ward)

Not be negative, this is a nice stat but it means nothing without additional context.
In isolation, it just tells us he is fit.

 

[cryptor]

Not be negative, this is a nice stat but it means nothing without additional context.
In isolation, it just tells us he is fit.

The context is that he has massive capacity to work and cover the ground. He covered more distance than the next most player, and it was all at high speed.

We know he can tag and he's the best in the league at it (albeit, it's a niche role). However I watch him play at VFL as a pure mid and he does stuff in terms of skill execution that he doesn't do at AFL level. Things like hitting up targets inside 50 with a flat pass rather than lobbing a high ball to the top of the square.

He's only just turned 23 too, I think there's a player there with a higher ceiling than many think.

 

[mustang]

Finn’s biggest asset apart from running is being able to win inside contested possessions, stand in the tackle and feed a handball out. Similar to Josh Kennedy (Syd).

The two things he struggles the most are decision making and then executing his skills. You only have 1-2 seconds at AFL level to make a decision and then execute.

I’m not sure if he can make it at AFL level but we have seen Worpel and Frost improve in this area.

Just need to get 100 games into him

 

[Iceman!]

The context is that he has massive capacity to work and cover the ground. He covered more distance than the next most player, and it was all at high speed.

We know he can tag and he's the best in the league at it (albeit, it's a niche role). However I watch him play at VFL as a pure mid and he does stuff in terms of skill execution that he doesn't do at AFL level. Things like hitting up targets inside 50 with a flat pass rather than lobbing a high ball to the top of the square.

He's only just turned 23 too, I think there's a player there with a higher ceiling than many think.

He is in to his 5th year on a list, there has been no noticeable improvement with his skills in that period.

He averages about 10 touches a game, doesn't hit the scoreboard, doesn't really impact making others better. He is an athlete, an elite athlete but outside of that he has shown very little.

He might be able to carve out a career as an okay role player but i am not sure what evidence we have seen to suggest his ceiling is anything much above that.

 

[cryptor]

He is in to his 5th year on a list, there has been no noticeable improvement with his skills in that period.

He averages about 10 touches a game, doesn't hit the scoreboard, doesn't really impact making others better. He is an athlete, an elite athlete but outside of that he has shown very little.

He might be able to carve out a career as an okay role player but i am not sure what evidence we have seen to suggest his ceiling is anything much above that.

I spoke of the evidence in the post you quoted. Watch the replay of the VFL game against Geelong. 3 scoring shots, 22 kicks from 27 touches, 10 marks. And not just a stats line, watch HOW he plays. Taking riskier kicks and hitting them, linking up play, etc.

In the AFL team he mostly handballs and when he does kick it there's none of the natural fluidity to his action. It's like he's kicking a water balloon. But also he's spending most of his AFL minutes focused on tagging. He's not ball hunting.

I fully acknowledge that VFL and AFL are different beasts and that there's plenty of players in the past who star at the level but can't translate it to AFL. But there are plenty who did.

 

[Iceman!]

I spoke of the evidence in the post you quoted. Watch the replay of the VFL game against Geelong. 3 scoring shots, 22 kicks from 27 touches, 10 marks. And not just a stats line, watch HOW he plays. Taking riskier kicks and hitting them, linking up play, etc.

In the AFL team he mostly handballs and when he does kick it there's none of the natural fluidity to his action. It's like he's kicking a water balloon. But also he's spending most of his AFL minutes focused on tagging. He's not ball hunting.

I fully acknowledge that VFL and AFL are different beasts and that there's plenty of players in the past who star at the level but can't translate it to AFL. But there are plenty who did.

I think people put wayyyyyyyyyyy too much stock in VFL performances. I also think you are highlighting what was one of his best VFL performance and not something he replicates week to week.

There would be some who took more time to adapt to AFL level for sure, but for the most part you would hope to see glimpses at AFL level.

I don't think there are many examples of players who have shown one elite AFL quality (his endurance) and being well below average in every other facet then taking a big leap and becoming anything more than fringe role players. I certainly don't agree that plenty do this.

The same flaws he had in his game as as draftee are the same flaws he posses 5 years later, expecting that to drastically improve now is (IMO) nothing more than hopefulness because there is no evidence to think it will happen.

 

[cryptor]

I think people put wayyyyyyyyyyy too much stock in VFL performances. I also think you are highlighting what was one of his best VFL performance and not something he replicates week to week.

There would be some who took more time to adapt to AFL level for sure, but for the most part you would hope to see glimpses at AFL level.

I don't think there are many examples of players who have shown one elite AFL quality (his endurance) and being well below average in every other facet then taking a big leap and becoming anything more than fringe role players. I certainly don't agree that plenty do this.

The same flaws he had in his game as as draftee are the same flaws he posses 5 years later, expecting that to drastically improve now is (IMO) nothing more than hopefulness because there is no evidence to think it will happen.

That’s his first VFL game since June last year. And most of his time at AFL level has been spent tagging, not developing pure midfield craft.

I’m not saying he’s always a star at VFL level so he must be able to do the same thing at AFL level.

I’m saying specific things he has done at VFL level are AFL quality but for whatever reason he doesn’t attempt it when he is playing AFL. If he can work on getting those better qualities into his AFL game then there’s a lot of scope for improvement when paired with all the other great attributes he has.

 

[HedgeFund]

I think people put wayyyyyyyyyyy too much stock in VFL performances. I also think you are highlighting what was one of his best VFL performance and not something he replicates week to week.

There would be some who took more time to adapt to AFL level for sure, but for the most part you would hope to see glimpses at AFL level.

I don't think there are many examples of players who have shown one elite AFL quality (his endurance) and being well below average in every other facet then taking a big leap and becoming anything more than fringe role players. I certainly don't agree that plenty do this.

The same flaws he had in his game as as draftee are the same flaws he posses 5 years later, expecting that to drastically improve now is (IMO) nothing more than hopefulness because there is no evidence to think it will happen.

In the VFL he is one player who they want using the football.

Not so much in the AFL as we’d prefer it in the hands of Sicily, D’Ambrosio, MacKenzie, Amon, Day, Newc, etc. and he would know that.

Often his first decision at the moment is, “should I give it to someone else to kick?” - which he wouldn’t even bother to consider at Box Hill.

Nash was similar for his first few years, but he slowly grew confidence to back himself with ball in hand, and has improved as a result.

Yesterday Finn had 18 touches whilst mainly running with Daicos, who had 26. Not a great negating job but Finn was involved in some handy offensive plays, and he also had his usual 1%ers.

I actually think there’s a spot for him as a defensive running wingman, who works back to be our 7th defender and helps pressure inside D50. Whilst not quick, he has no issue with spreading on turnover as he has the tank.

I recall a hard working limited player named Brad Sewell who didn’t become a regular until he was 22 years old, and frankly hand balled to his (superior by foot) team mates a lot more than he kicked for his entire 200 games.

He went okay in the end.

 

[cryptor]

Yesterday Finn had 18 touches whilst mainly running with Daicos, who had 26. Not a great negating job but Finn was involved in some handy offensive plays, and he also had his usual 1%ers.

Finn only tagged him in the first half. Daicos didn’t have a lot of impact with most of his touches in that time. A lot of nothing touches out on the wing boundary.