Toast Welcome to the Temple of Bontempelli, please take off your shoes and pay your respects

[_Cerberus_]

How did he blow it, by carrying the team every week?

Hi didn't blow it. But you have to wonder how Cripps so easily shakes off a tag and gets 30 possessions in a centre similar, or a little worse to ours. Yet Bont gets tagged out so easily. Either he struggles with tags, or us as a club do not protect him enough, like the Blues probably do with Cripps. How much blocking do we do, to help free him up etc?.

 

[Foxman98]

Hi didn't blow it. But you have to wonder how Cripps so easily shakes off a tag and gets 30 possessions in a centre similar, or a little worse to ours. Yet Bont gets tagged out so easily. Either he struggles with tags, or us as a club do not protect him enough, like the Blues probably do with Cripps. How much blocking do we do, to help free him up etc?.

Cripps has won as many Finals in his career as Bont has played Grand Finals he isn't as influential a player as he is made out to be

 

[dogwatch]

Cripps has won as many Finals in his career as Bont has played Grand Finals he isn't as influential a player as he is made out to be

No matter how good you are making a Grand Final - even just winning a final - depends not just on the individual but on having a pretty strong cohort for your top 15-20 players. Carlton haven't had that for a long time, but they are getting closer.

Perhaps also Cripps hasn't been at the elite level for as long? His first few years were good while Bont's first few years (year 2 onwards) were top notch. Just my gut feeling - I haven't checked whether the stats bear this out.

Cripps' last few years have been brilliant though. Undoubtedly one of the best few players in the game, along with Naicos, Heeney, Bont, Petracca. In fact they'd probably be my top 5 in no special order. With a few others close on their heels.

 

[ossie_21]

Hi didn't blow it. But you have to wonder how Cripps so easily shakes off a tag and gets 30 possessions in a centre similar, or a little worse to ours. Yet Bont gets tagged out so easily. Either he struggles with tags, or us as a club do not protect him enough, like the Blues probably do with Cripps. How much blocking do we do, to help free him up etc?.

It was really only this year he struggled with being tagged. Previously he would still be unstoppable, so teams didn’t bother as he’d still get them.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

No matter how good you are making a Grand Final - even just winning a final - depends not just on the individual but on having a pretty strong cohort for your top 15-20 players. Carlton haven't had that for a long time, but they are getting closer.

Perhaps also Cripps hasn't been at the elite level for as long? His first few years were good while Bont's first few years (year 2 onwards) were top notch. Just my gut feeling - I haven't checked whether the stats bear this out.

Cripps' last few years have been brilliant though. Undoubtedly one of the best few players in the game, along with Naicos, Heeney, Bont, Petracca. In fact they'd probably be my top 5 in no special order. With a few others close on their heels.

This is more relevant to Cripps of a few years ago than now (he's a much more well-rounded player), but there's a debate to be had about how much Cripps contributes to a game in all its phases to help his team win, rather than just at the stoppage. His kicking has always been poor, both in execution but also willigness to kick and drive his team forward in transition.

Over 60% of scores are from the turnover at AFL as opposed to the stoppage, and yet, Cripps has always gotten disposal and possession numbers from pre-clearance numbers that really only impact upon 30 - 40% of the game.

Bontempelli has always been an excellent clearance player but you can make the argument among midfielders he's clearly been the best non-stoppage midfielder, in large part because his own goal-kicking and goal assist numbers and driving the ball forward by foot after winning non-stoppage constested possessions has been the best in the league.

I'm not dismissing Cripps out of hand, I just think if we reorient how we consider how players truly contribute value toward wins, the fact that Cripps has never been party of a truly successful team makes a bit more sense (the contribution of one player among 22 otherwise), because I think over the course of his career the value is a bet less than his reputation.

 

[Snarls Barkley]

Cripps has won as many Finals in his career as Bont has played Grand Finals he isn't as influential a player as he is made out to be

Always hate this stuff. Thought after all the years we’ve had to endure people talk down our stars of the past (Grant, Johnson, West, Hawkins) because they’ve never won a Premiership or made a GF that we wouldn’t be so quick to use the label. Bont was a star in 2016 but has elevated himself to absolute superstar since. Does the fact that he has won 3 finals in those 8 years make me think less of those years? I wouldn’t think so.

No matter how good you are making a Grand Final - even just winning a final - depends not just on the individual but on having a pretty strong cohort for your top 15-20 players. Carlton haven't had that for a long time, but they are getting closer.

Perhaps also Cripps hasn't been at the elite level for as long? His first few years were good while Bont's first few years (year 2 onwards) were top notch. Just my gut feeling - I haven't checked whether the stats bear this out.

Cripps' last few years have been brilliant though. Undoubtedly one of the best few players in the game, along with Naicos, Heeney, Bont, Petracca. In fact they'd probably be my top 5 in no special order. With a few others close on their heels.

Probably greatest player I’ve seen is Gary Ablett Jr, and not even he could carry his sorry bunch to the finals. Doesn’t matter how good you are, if you don’t have the help, you’re not having any team success.

Cripps has been at the elite level from pretty early on. All Australian in 2018, All Australian and AFLPA MVP in 2019. Had pretty awful years by his standards in 2020 and 2021 and it actually looked like his body was already starting to let him down, was moving like a 35 year old rather than a 25 year old and people were questioning whether his style of game was sustainable. Been fantastic since though (I don’t think he was great last year but 22 and 24 were top echelon), he has become more of a goal kicker and that extra string to his bow raises his game.

Personally I thought Heeney was the best player this season just ahead of Bontempelli and Cripps and Daicos the other two in that conversation. Was fine with any of the individual awards going to one of those four. Should they have got 83 votes between them is a different question but thought they were clearly the best four.

 

[Pugz89]

Tried so hard, got so far but in the end

RIP Chester. haha

 

[revo333]

How did he blow it, by carrying the team every week?

He won't get a better chance.

It's alarming how many votes Daicos is getting already, he will be a favourite for the next decade if he stays healthy.

Only thing that could work in Bonts favour is if they let the umpires look at the stats from next season.

 

[Fossie 32]

He won't get a better chance.

It's alarming how many votes Daicos is getting already, he will be a favourite for the next decade if he stays healthy.

Only thing that could work in Bonts favour is if they let the umpires look at the stats from next season.

Fair enough but to me ‘blowing it’ implies responsibility on his part and I can’t see that he can be held responsible for not playing better

 

[Dogs 13]

Tried so hard, got so far but in the end

RIP Chester. haha

What do you think about the choice of Emily, big shoes to fill. Went in a whole new direction.
So difficult to listen to now without comparing to Chester who was one of a kind.
I liked the new song on Jimmy Fallon because at least you don’t have that comparison.
The band know he’s irreplaceable, but the show goes on, although a lot of punters not happy.

 

[Pugz89]

What do you think about the choice of Emily, big shoes to fill. Went in a whole new direction.
So difficult to listen to now without comparing to Chester who was one of a kind.
I liked the new song on Jimmy Fallon because at least you don’t have that comparison.
The band know he’s irreplaceable, but the show goes on, although a lot of punters not happy.

I think Chester is as much a part of Linkin Park as anyone. He can never be replaced. I'm not hugely into music that much, but so usually I wouldn't care if band members come and go, but my gut feel is I don't like it.
I know it'd never happen, but I'd have been happier if they renamed the band to something slightly different when they reformed with Emily.

Huge shoes to fill for her as well, and I dont envy her in the slightest.

 

[Snarls Barkley]

Charles Sutton Medal's

7x Scott West

Scott West

Age

49

Ht

178cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

25.4

5star

K

12.7

5star

HB

12.6

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

12.0

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

1.4

2star

T

1.0

3star

(1995, 1997, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2004, 2005)
6x Gary Dempsey (1970, 1973, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977)
6x MARCUS BONTEMPELLI

4

Marcus Bontempelli

Age

28

Ht

194cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.5

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

10.3

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

4.8

5star

CL

4.4

5star

D

18.4

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

8.8

4star

M

2.6

3star

T

4.1

5star

CL

4.0

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

1.8

4star

(2016, 2017, 2019, 2021, 2023, 2024)
5x Norman Ware (1934, 1937, 1938, 1940, 1941)
5x Ted Whitten (1954, 1957, 1958, 1959, 1961)
5x John Schultz (1960, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1966)

 

[Snarls Barkley]

Age (Year)	Scott West	Age (Year)	Marcus Bontempelli
18 (1993)	(17 games)	18 (2014)	(16 games)
19 (1994)	(40 games)	19 (2015)	(37 games)
20 (1995)	1st B&F (63 games)	20 (2016)	1st B&F (63 games)
21 (1996)	(78 games)	21 (2017)	2nd B&F (85 games)
22 (1997)	2nd B&F (102 games)	22 (2018)	(104 games)
23 (1998)	3rd B&F (126 games)	23 (2019)	3rd B&F (127 games)
24 (1999)	(147 games)	24 (2020)	(145 games)
25 (2000)	4th B&F (170 games)	25 (2021)	4th B&F (171 games)
26 (2001)	(192 games)	26 (2022)	(193 games)
27 (2002)	(210 games)	27 (2023)	5th B&F (216 games)
28 (2003)	5th B&F (232 games)
29 (2004)	6th B&F (254 games)
30 (2005)	7th B&F (276 games)
31 (2006)	(300 games)
32 (2007)	(320 games)
33 (2008)	retired (324 games)

Age (Year)	Scott West	Age (Year)	Marcus Bontempelli
18 (1993)	(17 games)	18 (2014)	(16 games)
19 (1994)	(40 games)	19 (2015)	(37 games)
20 (1995)	1st B&F (63 games)	20 (2016)	1st B&F (63 games)
21 (1996)	(78 games)	21 (2017)	2nd B&F (85 games)
22 (1997)	2nd B&F (102 games)	22 (2018)	(104 games)
23 (1998)	3rd B&F (126 games)	23 (2019)	3rd B&F (127 games)
24 (1999)	(147 games)	24 (2020)	(145 games)
25 (2000)	4th B&F (170 games)	25 (2021)	4th B&F (171 games)
26 (2001)	(192 games)	26 (2022)	(193 games)
27 (2002)	(210 games)	27 (2023)	5th B&F (216 games)
28 (2003)	5th B&F (232 games)	28 (2024)	6th B&F (240 games)
29 (2004)	6th B&F (254 games)
30 (2005)	7th B&F (276 games)
31 (2006)	(300 games)
32 (2007)	(320 games)
33 (2008)	retired (324 games)

Note: This is just a Bont tracker and in no way a comparison between two club legends

 

[Snarls Barkley]

 

[Eastdog]

That is great company.

 

[dogwatch]

Charles Sutton Medal's

7x Scott West (1995, 1997, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2004, 2005)
6x Gary Dempsey (1970, 1973, 1974, 1975, 1976, 1977)
6x MARCUS BONTEMPELLI (2016, 2017, 2019, 2021, 2023, 2024)
5x Norman Ware (1934, 1937, 1938, 1940, 1941)
5x Ted Whitten (1954, 1957, 1958, 1959, 1961)
5x John Schultz (1960, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1966)

It's impossible to accurately compare players across eras but it's worth noting that every year Bont has won a B&F we have finished no lower than 10th out of 18. Apart from that year (10th, 2017) all the others we were in the top half of the ladder. He won four of them in years that we made the finals. He also won the B&F both times we played in a GF. When your team is in the finals most years and even playing in the grand final you know you'll have some pretty handy teammates you have to beat if you're going to win the club's B&F.

Five of West's B&Fs were in good years (incl 2 PFs) but in two of those years (2003-4) we were crap.

Dempsey could also have won seven if he'd stayed at the Dogs ... or even 8. He went on to win one at North when they finished third on the ladder. For those who weren't around then he was an incredibly dominant player week in, week out. Not just in the ruck but around the ground and continually taking intercept marks deep in defence.

Ted Whitten is the only other player to win a B&F in a Bulldogs premiership year. And like Bont he won it in both the years that we played GFs during that era. However all of Bont's rivals in the above list won multiple B&Fs when we were nearer the bottom of the ladder than the top.

There's not much in it but the Bont is certainly staking his claim as our best ever. And just to prove it he may well go on to win a few more.

 

[Bulldogs85]