Wellingham - Traded to West Coast

[keepzitreal]

Garlett will be long gone by then

 

[Galileo9]

Yep, that's totally what I did.

Are you old enough to remember Daniel Chick and Tyson Stenglein?

hey hey you said it, not me. i said wellingham isnt a guarantee of anythign and you said by that logic ablett isnt. wellingham is inconsistent. ablett isnt. you KNOW what you will get with ablett. wellingham, who the hell knows.

wellingham isnt even half the player those two were. those two were at least consistent.

 

[Scotland]

hey hey you said it, not me. i said wellingham isnt a guarantee of anythign and you said by that logic ablett isnt. wellingham is inconsistent. ablett isnt. you KNOW what you will get with ablett. wellingham, who the hell knows.

wellingham isnt even half the player those two were. those two were at least consistent.

Wellingham is a 24 year old who has played 92 games.

You might not rate him, but he's been very consistent over the last 3 seasons.

Ignoring injury or a freak yachting accident it's pretty obvious to most people what we are going to get - we're going to get what we've seen from Wellingham at Collingwood for the last 3 years...

 

[Galileo9]

Wellingham is a 24 year old who has played 92 games.

You might not rate him, but he's been very consistent over the last 3 seasons.

Ignoring injury or a freak yachting accident it's pretty obvious to most people what we are going to get - we're going to get what we've seen from Wellingham at Collingwood for the last 3 years...

....which is what?

 

[Spartan]

i will vent as long as i want.

I'll be back here venting.

Ok we get it, you're extremely unhappy with the trade. You've explained why, however maybe its just me but it feels like you've grabbed on to a set of assumptions and despite logic, reasoning and evidence to the contrary you're not letting go. Which is fine, we're all entitled to our opinions, but I'll play the yin to your yang.

"Wellingham is not worth Pick 17" - This and other threads have looked at the players received at and around the pick 17 mark over a number of years. There are a couple of stand outs, a lot of average players and a few complete duds. The pick is compromised due to last year's mini-draft and the pending compo pick, it could be argued that it is more a second rounder than a first rounder.

"Wellingham is inconsistent and we don't know what we are getting" - Wellingham's perceived inconsistency comes from the fact that he can play a number of positions. He plays through the middle, on the wing, HFF, players as a tagger as well as an offensive player. If WCE settle him into a role he will, in my opinion, shake off the inconsistency stigma. If we don't then I believe he will continue to play the role asked of him and have perceived blinders and average games.

As the risk of having to change my name to Spartan33 I'll re-visit the key points in us drafting Wellingham:

• 24 year old midfielder who maintained his place in the midfield/HFF in a top 4 team with a very strong midfield.
• Has played well in the finals including getting NS votes in the GF and recently the final against us this year.
• Addresses WCE's lack of pace through the midfield.
• Adds a best 22 player to WCE and takes a best 22 player from a fellow top 4 competitor. If you believe Collingwood have a very weak bottom 11 then this theoretically makes them even weaker. If you don't think he is in our best 22 you're kidding yourself, the trade would not have been done if he wasn't seen as best 22.
• Provides another option through the midfield, on the wing, on HFF or even as a tagger. Given the choice between McGinnity and Wellingham I know who I would prefer. His versatility will be a strength and asset.
• Makes our team immediately stronger, a late teen draft pick in all likelihood would not have had an impact over the next couple of years which is our first premiership window with Kerr, Glass and Cox.
• I'm too lazy to go back and check but someone posted the percentage of players picked in this range compared to Wellingham and the odds were comfortably in Wellingham's favour. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Now I fully expect an "I told you so" from all detractors if there is a Darling like slider past 17/18 and/or if Wellingham doesn't come out and dominate each week. However I stand firm by the fact that as it stands today (or last week if you like) this trade was the right decision for WCE.

 

[Son of Skeletor]

If you were to ask me straight up is Wellingham worth a first round pick I would say no without blinking an eye lid. First round draft picks are not given away for role players....regardless of where a team is at in their "window". Wellingham to date has not shown that he is nothing more than a role player.

Again though, if West Coast do win a flag in the next 2 years and he plays his role then I guess it did pay off. But I still don't think it is worth the gamble of giving away a first round pick.

I put this list up earlier in the thread- you'd be surprised what a seemingly ready-made senior AFL footballer is worth.

All these trades were made in the last 10 years, and are all in some way comparable with the Wellingham trade..

Justin Sherman was traded for an end-of-first-round compensation pick
Richard Tambling was traded for an end-of-first-round compensation pick
Jack Gunston was traded for pick 24 plus slight extras
Brent Renouf was traded for pick 33
Jordan Lisle was traded for pick 29
Cam Wood was traded for pick 14
Jordan McMahon was traded for pick 19
Brock McLean was traded for pick 11
Andrew Lovett was traded for pick 16
Brad Symes was traded for pick 28
Brad Moran was traded for pick 34
Fergus Watts was traded for pick 17
Richard Cole was traded for pick 23
Ted Richards was traded for picks 19 and 50
Nathan Lonie was traded for pick 14
Josh Carr was traded for picks 11, 27 and 43
Paul Johnson was traded for pick 29
Brent Moloney was traded for pick 12
Tyson Stenglein was traded for picks 12 and 28
Jason Gram was traded for pick 23
Peter Street was traded for pick 20
Steven Koops was traded for pick 19
Ben Holland was traded for pick 21
David Haynes was traded for pick 20

Out of that list, perhaps Richards and Gram (maybe Moloney) have provided the best 'value for money' - I don't think it's beyond Welligham to emulate their performances or career longevity at all.

Draft picks are a gamble, even in the first round (and remember, pick 17 used to be a second round pick not so long ago). Sometimes teams will just choose the proven commodity and go with it- Sydney are masters of doing just that.

 

[Kram]

To this day I still can't believe that the Dogs gave us pick 19 for Koops, just insane.

 

[Forward Press]

I like how Galileo conveniently ignored what we paid for Chick and Stenglein.

To this day I still can't believe that the Dogs gave us pick 19 for Koops, just insane.

They gave us something for Andrew McDougall too. Insane.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I put this list up earlier in the thread- you'd be surprised what a seemingly ready-made senior AFL footballer is worth.

All these trades were made in the last 10 years, and are all in some way comparable with the Wellingham trade..

Justin Sherman was traded for an end-of-first-round compensation pick
Richard Tambling was traded for an end-of-first-round compensation pick
Jack Gunston was traded for pick 24 plus slight extras
Brent Renouf was traded for pick 33
Jordan Lisle was traded for pick 29
Cam Wood was traded for pick 14
Jordan McMahon was traded for pick 19
Brock McLean was traded for pick 11
Andrew Lovett was traded for pick 16
Brad Symes was traded for pick 28
Brad Moran was traded for pick 34
Fergus Watts was traded for pick 17
Richard Cole was traded for pick 23
Ted Richards was traded for picks 19 and 50
Nathan Lonie was traded for pick 14
Josh Carr was traded for picks 11, 27 and 43
Paul Johnson was traded for pick 29
Brent Moloney was traded for pick 12
Tyson Stenglein was traded for picks 12 and 28
Jason Gram was traded for pick 23
Peter Street was traded for pick 20
Steven Koops was traded for pick 19
Ben Holland was traded for pick 21
David Haynes was traded for pick 20

Out of that list, perhaps Richards and Gram (maybe Moloney) have provided the best 'value for money' - I don't think it's beyond Welligham to emulate their performances or career longevity at all.

Draft picks are a gamble, even in the first round (and remember, pick 17 used to be a second round pick not so long ago). Sometimes teams will just choose the proven commodity and go with it- Sydney are masters of doing just that.

You have missed Collingwood trading its first round pick for Krakouer/Ceglar in 2010 and Elliot/Clarke in 2011.

 

[Scotland]

I like how Galileo conveniently ignored what we paid for Chick and Stenglein.

He's not half what either of those players were and is inconsistent, apparently.

They gave us something for Andrew McDougall too. Insane.

To be fair, they gave us 29 & 59 for McDougall and 34 knowing that there was no difference between 29 and 34 for them having already agreed to give Brisbane a second round pick.

29 was Eric Mackenzie, 34 was Chris Schmidt. Big win for us in the end.

They also gave us pick 22 (Scott Selwood) for picks 30 and 35 in 2007 so they could get Hudson from Adelaide.

The two clubs have a good trading record.

 

[Son of Skeletor]

You have missed Collingwood trading its first round pick for Krakouer/Ceglar in 2010 and Elliot/Clarke in 2011.

Yes, that was intentional due to the fact that two players were involved in each of those trades- makes it harder to compare like-for-like.

If I had to take a stab I'd say the 2010 trade was more heavily weighted towards Krakouer (in terms of perceived value), whereas assigning the weighted value for each player in the 2011 is more problematic (Elliott now worth more than Clarke possibly?)

 

[Mateyman]

Yes, that was intentional due to the fact that two players were involved in each of those trades- makes it harder to compare like-for-like.

If I had to take a stab I'd say the 2010 trade was more heavily weighted towards Krakouer (in terms of perceived value), whereas assigning the weighted value for each player in the 2011 is more problematic (Elliott now worth more than Clarke possibly?)

Some people say we would've taken Elliott with our first pick anyway

 

[Son of Skeletor]

Some people say we would've taken Elliott with our first pick anyway

Probably not far from the truth- needless to say, I don't think we were trading pick 25 for Marty Clarke (thankfully).

 

[Dundalis]

....which is what?

Wellingham has plenty of desirable attributes. He's excellent overhead for his size, he's quick without being a burner, he's truly excellent below his knees, extremely clean hands, and when moved into the midfield he knows how to find the footy and can win his own ball. He is an excellent mover through traffic. He can kick goals.

What he isn't great with is his disposal, and sometimes his decision making. But mostly it's his execution which oftentimes looks lazy and overly nonchalant. His set shots can be poor, but he's quite decent from open play. He also has had issues with his concentration from day one, and because of this can drift in and out of games. It's all part of his personality I think, which Walsh made some parting mention of. He may not be consistent, but he also hasn't been consistent in terms of the role he's been given while at Collingwood. His potential is still pretty good however, and if he's given a more consistent role in the midfield, may come around to that consistency.