Wellingham - Traded to West Coast

[Forward Press]

Your a tool if you think like that. Vozza has been very average in his trade deals.

We should of waited seen the landscape and tried to pick up a 25 pick and kept our first pick.

As has been said our recruiters where not happy Vozzo gave up our first pick.

Its over now so we need to move on, but Collingwood will draft two best 22 players with picks 17 & 18.

The talent in this years top 20 is very good, its drops away after that.

How do you suppose we would try and get a sub 25 pick?

I agree in that Wellingham's valuation is probably in that 25ish range, but as Spartan pointed out, trying to get one is another matter altogether. We perhaps did pay slight overs, but we did what we had to do to get it done without the uncertainty of the PSD and waiting for Collingwood to cave in. The idea that Collingwood will automatically get two best 22 players with their first rounders is also misleading - go back through drafting history and you'll find it's about a 50/50 shot to stumble onto a first 22 player (much less within their first one or two years). Jack Darling is the exception and not the rule.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

How do you suppose we would try and get a sub 25 pick?

I agree in that Wellingham's valuation is probably in that 25ish range, but as Spartan pointed out, trying to get one is another matter altogether. We perhaps did pay slight overs, but we did what we had to do to get it done without the uncertainty of the PSD and waiting for Collingwood to cave in. The idea that Collingwood will automatically get two best 22 players with their first rounders is also misleading - go back through drafting history and you'll find it's about a 50/50 shot to stumble onto a first 22 player (much less within their first one or two years). Jack Darling is the exception and not the rule.

If Welligham's position was in the 25 range, then we should have got Collingwood's 2nd rounder as part of the trade.

 

[Forward Press]

If Welligham's position was in the 25 range, then we should have got Collingwood's 2nd rounder as part of the trade.

I actually agree we could've pushed for slightly more but I'd rather we got this deal done early rather than playing hard-ball until deadline day.

Sure we had leverage but I think a lot of the unhappiness is predicated upon an incorrect assumption (in my personal opinion) that if Wellingham wasn't traded to us, he'd nominate for the PSD instead of re-signing with Collingwood. We held the cards, but not all of them.

Getting Collingwood's second rounder (about 40ish or so) isn't exactly a big win for us either. I consider it more of a sweetener rather than a crucial aspect of any deal.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

I actually agree we could've pushed for slightly more but I'd rather we got this deal done early rather than playing hard-ball until deadline day.

Sure we had leverage but I think a lot of the unhappiness is predicated upon an incorrect assumption (in my personal opinion) that if Wellingham wasn't traded to us, he'd nominate for the PSD instead of re-signing with Collingwood. We held the cards, but not all of them.

Getting Collingwood's second rounder (about 40ish or so) isn't exactly a big win for us either. I consider it more of a sweetener rather than a crucial aspect of any deal.

It would still be a 18 pick upgrade on our current 2nd selection.

There's no 'winning' for getting the deal done early. It's not as though it is holding up massive deals for us elsewhere.

I must admit when I heard Vozzo saying "we wanted to act decisively" I didn't quite get the merit of it. Surely you would rather act 'rightly'. If that took us to the last day or last week - then so be it. There are no compensation picks provided to get deals done early

 

[Pat_Footy]

Jack Darling is the exception and not the rule.

Jack Darling illustrates just how important draft picks are. There will be a slider and Collingwood will pounce.
First rounders aren't just there to fling around in trades. WC have been reamed in this deal and Vozzo needs to pull his head in.

 

[Forward Press]

It would still be a 18 pick upgrade on our current 2nd selection.

There's no 'winning' for getting the deal done early. It's not as though it is holding up massive deals for us elsewhere.

I must admit when I heard Vozzo saying "we wanted to act decisively" I didn't quite get the merit of it. Surely you would rather act 'rightly'. If that took us to the last day or last week - then so be it. There are no compensation picks provided to get deals done early

Fair enough, you're entitled to that view. I do however sincerely believe that our first rounder was a fair valuation for Wellingham and that in this window, we do not need to draft first 22 players for 2014/2015. He isn't that great, but for reasons that have already been well documented I think he could be one of the vital cogs in a premiership push - and also immediately weakens a top 4 rival.

Didn't see the point of dragging this one out for a small sweetener like a pick 40, especially given that offering just our second rounder (38) is an even more unfair trade. It was always going to involve our first rounder.

Jack Darling illustrates just how important draft picks are. There will be a slider and Collingwood will pounce.
First rounders aren't just there to fling around in trades. WC have been reamed in this deal and Vozzo needs to pull his head in.

Yeah because there's a Jack Darling in every draft and we would always get one with our lower picks.

There have been plenty of busts around the late teens/twenties from our club alone. If you want to re-tread the analyses that have already been done by other posters in this thread by all means do so. I'd rather use a 17/18 to trade for an immediate first 22 player that provides great versatility rather than using it on an 18 year old kid who may or may not come good in two to three years. I think we must push for the premiership in 2013.

 

[Spartan]

look at the luke ball example. st kilda tried to do to collingwood what collingwood did to us (ie. ask for more than the player's worth). collingwood told them where to go and ended up getting their man for a 2nd round pick in the draft.

we caved in and paid overs. can't recall us ever previously botching a trade so blatently. very un-west coast like.

as collingwood's dominance was waned over the past couple of seasons, wellingham has begun to get exposed as the decidedly mediocre player he is.

collingwood must be pinching themselves that we coughed up our first pick. similarly, we must be asking a lot of questions internally.

Luke Ball is older and had injury concerns when compared to Wellingham. Collingwood ended up using the pick that they offered to pick him up in the draft. Wellingham would not have lasted till our second rounder, if no one else Freo with a 2nd round pick before us would have likely grabbed him. He wouldn't have lasted to us in the PSD.

Brad Ebert went for Pick 28. Are we contending that Wellingham is of less value than Ebert at the times of the respective trades (assuming you believe that our 2nd rounder is all that we should have given up for Wellingham)? Unlike us, Port could have definately picked Ebert up in the draft for nothing if he walked.

We paid marginal overs because we had nothing else. Without sounding like a broken record, a 24 year old versatile midfielder in the best 22 from a fellow top 4 team who fills a need for us and has proven himself especially on the big stage is easily worth a pick ~20. We gave up 17, shit happens.

As for the last couple of statements above.. the phrase 'drama queen' comes to mind.

It would still be a 18 pick upgrade on our current 2nd selection.

There's no 'winning' for getting the deal done early. It's not as though it is holding up massive deals for us elsewhere.

I must admit when I heard Vozzo saying "we wanted to act decisively" I didn't quite get the merit of it. Surely you would rather act 'rightly'. If that took us to the last day or last week - then so be it. There are no compensation picks provided to get deals done early

None of us on bigfooty know what was discussed and what was the minimum and maximum each party was willing to give or take. Collingwood could have said a top 20 pick or get ****ed. Wellingham still appeared to be accepted at the Pies, he could have ended up staying there like ROK did. So ultimately the Eagles had to ask themselves if Wellingham was worth Pick 17 (given thats pretty much all we had to offer), they did and they believed he is (something I agree with).

Like everyone I wish we got Wellingham for less. Shit I wish we got him for free. However we obviously identified that he was an asset to the team and didn't wish to take the chance in the draft.

While I agree that there is no 'winning' for getting the deal done early, why drag things out if both parties are content with the deal?

There is some serious overrating of Pick 17 especially given the list of players picked up at that mark by us and by other teams (yes I know about Kerr and Shuey).

If the exact same outcome was achieved an hour before the trade period ended does that make it a more acceptable trade?

 

[PendlesPremiers]

I cannot understand that people are suggesting the Eagles have been dudded in this deal. For pick 17 they're getting a premiership player with between 120 and 150 games left, who was a key player in arguably the competition's best midfield.

Sharrod entered the league in the 2006 rookie draft- having a look at picks 15-20 from the 2006 National Draft up to the 2011 National Draft, there have only been three players who are clearly better than Sharrod (Ward, Shuey and Fyfe). So three players out of 36. 8.5%.

The Eagles fans that are grumpy need to chill out and recognise when they've got it good.

 

[Spartan]

Jack Darling illustrates just how important draft picks are. There will be a slider and Collingwood will pounce.
First rounders aren't just there to fling around in trades. WC have been reamed in this deal and Vozzo needs to pull his head in.

Like everyone pounced on Darling?

There very will may be a slider but there is absolutely no certainty that we (and now Collingwood) would have picked him up with pick 17.

Wellingham is a known quanity that makes us a better team in our premiership window before Cox, Kerr and Glass move on and will still be around when Nic Nat, Shuey, Gaff, etc hit their prime.

Yet apparently we've been reamed.

 

[Kwality]

Kerr was as much a slider as Darling - I remember a critic nominating Kerr as the rising star even tho he went at 18. We took McDougall at #5, were happy ... then Kerr was still available at 18.

Obvious sliders arent known til the end of season #1, & I'm happy with Wellingham & the Pies have given a shitcan out the door to help our cause, & the Pies are happy , goodo !!

 

[Off Tap]

Jack Darling illustrates just how important draft picks are. There will be a slider and Collingwood will pounce.
First rounders aren't just there to fling around in trades. WC have been reamed in this deal and Vozzo needs to pull his head in.

That's rubbish. The Swans have been trading out their picks for ready made players since Roos took over. This proves that if you can find suitable players for around that mark it's adventagious to do the trade.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Jack Darling illustrates just how important draft picks are. There will be a slider and Collingwood will pounce.
First rounders aren't just there to fling around in trades. WC have been reamed in this deal and Vozzo needs to pull his head in.

What a load of rubbish.

For every Luke Shuey theres a Tom Swift.

 

[MarkT2]

look at the luke ball example. st kilda tried to do to collingwood what collingwood did to us (ie. ask for more than the player's worth). collingwood told them where to go and ended up getting their man for a 2nd round pick in the draft.

we caved in and paid overs. can't recall us ever previously botching a trade so blatently. very un-west coast like.

as collingwood's dominance was waned over the past couple of seasons, wellingham has begun to get exposed as the decidedly mediocre player he is.

collingwood must be pinching themselves that we coughed up our first pick. similarly, we must be asking a lot of questions internally.

Wellingham is worth the pick. I'd rather have the player and give back the pick myself.
As opposed to Ball, Wellingham wasn't on the outer and would have stayed rather than enter the draft but had he entered the draft he'd have cost WCE the same pick or been taken before it. He wouldn't have lasted until WCE's next pick.

 

[trickyonne]

Far too many people overrating draft picks here.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Far too many people overrating draft picks here.

Absolutely.

Bird in the hand....

Good trade for the Eagles. Fair trade for Collingwood but nailing the right player with the pick is still an art form that hasnt been perfected. And never will.

 

[eaglespremiers]

Looks good in West Coast colours too:

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Collingwood's use of the pick will determine who did better. Get a Nathan Fyfe and they have done very well, get a Nathan Lonie and they've done poorly.

 

[ChampRevesby]

Collingwood's use of the pick will determine who did better. Get a Nathan Fyfe and they have done very well, get a Nathan Lonie and they've done poorly.

The draft can be very much an unknown quantity. We all know what Wellingham is capable of and I couldn't be happier.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Nathan Lonie was picked at 58.

So he didn't do all that bad.

 

[bradrowe#32]

The Sunday Times (WA) reckons WC bent Collingwood over in this trade. Their bias knows no bounds.

 

[Forward Press]

The Sunday Times (WA) reckons WC bent Collingwood over in this trade. Their bias knows no bounds.

Your first mistake was relying on anything written in The Sunday Times.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

The Sunday Times (WA) reckons WC bent Collingwood over in this trade. Their bias knows no bounds.

Ineptitude and bias can be easily confused.

The Sunday Times is also likely to be guilty of both.

 

[nineteen eighty]

Jack Darling illustrates just how important draft picks are. There will be a slider and Collingwood will pounce.
First rounders aren't just there to fling around in trades. WC have been reamed in this deal and Vozzo needs to pull his head in.

The key here is the first rounder and I agree whole heartedly. At no point in time have I ever considered Wellingham to be a first rounder. Sure he has had good games but no way known was he worth a first rounder when he was drafted and he's shown me nothing to make me change my mind after a number of years (how many...4? 5?) in the system.

First rounders should be treated like gold...not given out for average to good players. Wellingham played a role at the Pies and fitted in nicely due to their midfield depth. Will he have a key midfield role for the Eagles or will he continue to be a role player. I'm thinking the latter. With that being the case, does it warrant giving away a first round pick? Not in a million years of Sunday.

IMO, the Pies would be absolutely ecstatic that they got a first rounder and the Eagles paid overs. Time will tell who will have the last laugh though. If the Eagles win a flag in the next year or 2 and Wellingham plays his part in it, then job done. But I wouldn't have paid a first rounder for him.

 

[East coast eagle]

The key here is the first rounder and I agree whole heartedly. At no point in time have I ever considered Wellingham to be a first rounder. Sure he has had good games but no way known was he worth a first rounder when he was drafted and he's shown me nothing to make me change my mind after a number of years (how many...4? 5?) in the system.

First rounders should be treated like gold...not given out for average to good players. Wellingham played a role at the Pies and fitted in nicely due to their midfield depth. Will he have a key midfield role for the Eagles or will he continue to be a role player. I'm thinking the latter. With that being the case, does it warrant giving away a first round pick? Not in a million years of Sunday.

IMO, the Pies would be absolutely ecstatic that they got a first rounder and the Eagles paid overs. Time will tell who will have the last laugh though. If the Eagles win a flag in the next year or 2 and Wellingham plays his part in it, then job done. But I wouldn't have paid a first rounder for him.

So if we win a flag in two years he wasnt worth pick 17??? hmmm

 

[Spartan]

The key here is the first rounder and I agree whole heartedly. At no point in time have I ever considered Wellingham to be a first rounder. Sure he has had good games but no way known was he worth a first rounder when he was drafted and he's shown me nothing to make me change my mind after a number of years (how many...4? 5?) in the system.

Wellingham was a rookie pick in the 2006 draft.

The following players were picked between picks 15 to 20 in the 2006 National draft.

Daniel O'Keefe (Sydney)
Mitchell Brown (WCE)
Shaun Hampson (Carlton)
Leroy Jetta (Essendon)
Shaun Grigg (Carlton)
Tom Hislop (Essendon)

Which of those players are worth a 1st round pick today? (Yes I know WCE are asking for a first rounder for Brown but he is contracted, blah blah, etc etc). Out of the list of smalls above which players would be considered better than Wellingham?

Ok lets look at last year.

Brandon Ellis (Richmond)
Tom Sheridan (Fremantle)
Clay Smith (WB)
Elliot Kavanagh (Essendon)
Hayden Crozier (Fremantle)

Now I'm not advocating we judge the above players after 1 season of football. However have any of the above shown anything to suggest that they will be elite players? Have they shown anything to indicate that they will be significantly better than Wellingham?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say no.

First rounders should be treated like gold...not given out for average to good players. Wellingham played a role at the Pies and fitted in nicely due to their midfield depth. Will he have a key midfield role for the Eagles or will he continue to be a role player. I'm thinking the latter. With that being the case, does it warrant giving away a first round pick? Not in a million years of Sunday.

Yet when key players in the Pies midfield were missing and he was played in the middle he played very well, for example the game against Melbourne.

I'm guessing you also missed the GF where he polled NS votes which indicates he can perform on the big stage.

I think he will have more of a key role in the midfield at the Eagles than he did recently at the Pies and another thing to consider is that Priddis and Kerr are in the twilight of their careers and Wellingham is only 24 years old.

IMO, the Pies would be absolutely ecstatic that they got a first rounder and the Eagles paid overs. Time will tell who will have the last laugh though. If the Eagles win a flag in the next year or 2 and Wellingham plays his part in it, then job done. But I wouldn't have paid a first rounder for him.

Pick 17 (or 18 depending on the Goddard compo pick) in a compromised draft (O'Meara, Couch already gone) for Wellingham is marginal overs at best.

As it has been repeatedly explained Wellingham filled a need for the Eagles and makes us an immediately better team in a premiership window. While we would have liked to have paid less the trade is reasonable and WCE is in a better position because of it.