West Coast are the real deal

[dickballsack]

they stay in the 4 for mine. Playing some awesome team footy.

 

[smasha]

they stay in the 4 for mine. Playing some awesome team footy.

I agree.

Going to be hard to dislodge them.

 

[Keys]

It's Round 12 mate.

And as I explained in my previous post, they've yet to play any serious contenders yet, most of their wins have come against Bottom 10 teams.

The Top 4 in terms of talent is Fremantle, Sydney, Hawthorn, then quite a decent gap, followed by Port Adelaide and North Melbourne.

Port are in bad form, and North are a bit scratchy themselves, but if it came down to a finals match against either of those two teams, I doubt you'd beat either of them to be honest. And you certainly wouldn't come close to Fremantle, Hawthorn, or Sydney.

You're a 5th-8th team that's beating Bottom 10 teams, just like us in 2013. Wouldn't be surprised whatsoever to see you finish 5th or 6th, get 14/15 wins, but then drop an Elimination Final.

Current top 8 teams Richmond have played :
Fremantle
West Coast
Collingwood

W2 - L1

Current top 8 teams West Coast have played ;
Fremantle
GWS
Richmond

W2 - L1 (Same as Richmond)

 

[Art OF war]

Personally, I think Dangerfield should have played defensively during those centre bounce downs.

 

[ReaperX]

Current top 8 teams Richmond have played :
Fremantle
West Coast
Collingwood

W2 - L1

Current top 8 teams West Coast have played ;
Fremantle
GWS
Richmond

W2 - L1 (Same as Richmond)

If this thread was "Who's likely to finish higher, Eagles or Tigers?" then this response would be valid. But the thread is about if the Eagles are the real deal, or in other words, a chance to win the premiership in 2015.

I'm simply stating the case that the Eagles haven't had a hugely difficult draw to get to 9-3, apart from tonight they haven't beaten a genuinely dangerous Top 8 team yet (mostly because they haven't had to play many). Honestly GWS are a very young team still, and I really don't think they count, despite their ladder position.

Tonight was a huge tick, and as I've said 89 times now, it should lock them in for finals given they've performed well against the teams that they're expected to beat, as well as a couple of 50/50's like tonight and against an out-of-form Port.

But "making the finals", and being the "real deal" are two different things, and the gap is massive between the two, as Richmond themselves found out when they came up against a genuine 2014 version of a "real deal" team last year in the EF.

And on Port, we've seen that the burden of expectation has gotten to them this season. The Eagles have a free crack this year, people were expecting them to be much lower on the ladder, so really it'll be 2016 and 2017 that determine just how far they can actually go.

The Eagles, or anybody else for that matter, can't be considered the "real deal" until they've at least had 4 or 5 wins against Top 8 quality opposition, and have done that in successive seasons, at the very least 2.

As for this year, well if they can beat Adelaide twice, and Collingwood at the MCG, then you could make a case for them that they are this year's Port Adelaide I suppose.

But until they've actually faced multiple challenges like that and overcome them, they're still not a contender for the premiership. Hell, even if they DO overcome those challenges, they might still not be (see North in 2014, who beat Sydney at SCG, Fremantle at DS, and Hawthorn during the regular season, but never looked likely to make it past that PF).

Terms like "real deal" and "premiership contender" get thrown around far too easily for my liking!

 

[Keys]

Terms like "real deal" and "premiership contender" get thrown around far too easily for my liking!

I agree with this and I've not seen many eagles posters seriously considering we are a contender. We aren't.

At the same time I am getting a little tired of seeing posts that diminish what we've done so far - as it stands I think the Eagles deserve to be considered the 4th best team in the comp to this point. The challenge will be holding that position in the remainder of the season

 

[EagleShore]

I agree with this and I've not seen many eagles posters seriously considering we are a contender. We aren't.

At the same time I am getting a little tired of seeing posts that diminish what we've done so far - as it stands I think the Eagles deserve to be considered the 4th best team in the comp to this point. The challenge will be holding that position in the remainder of the season

Basically I think everyone agrees on where the Eagles are at - vastly improved over the off season with: (a) better ball handling around congestion; and (b) players adhering to the team structure and getting a grasp of Simmo's gameplan. Combined with the defensive factors that have thus far mitigated the expected damage from losing Easy and Brown for the season, (namely, the emergence of the Gov, Schoey playing a more than serviceable role as a KPD, Wellingham's comfortable new role on the half-back line, and Sheppard's dramatic improvement) and you have a side that is performing significantly better than the March predictions, but which no one is really suggesting will beat Hawthorn, Sydney, or Freo in a final.

ReaperX's analysis is sound in that we sit more accurately around Collingwood, Adelaide, North, Richmond, and probably Geelong too (with the jury still out on Port of course) than Freo, Sydney and Hawthorn. Hence why the outcomes of the matches against those teams will determine if we get that fourth spot at the end of the season.

Just on those teams - assuming GWS will fall away given their oppressive injury list, one of them will miss out on finals altogether. Two if Port rediscover their form from 2014 and sneak in. Incredibly tight competition.

 

[MKMatty]

FWIW I think we have it over Adelaide and Collingwood. Considering we were over the Pies last year until we folding in the final term, I wouldn't think playing them in Melbourne is an impossible task. Adelaide in Adelaide is a real 50/50, but I'd back us at home.

At minimum, pushing Freo, Sydney, or Hawthorn is essential. A blow out against any of them would be disappointing, and weaken our claim for top four if we were to end up there come finals.

 

[Jiggyman]

West Coast are not the real deal, Tigers just aren't where you think they are.

We're an 8th to 12th team.

Eagles have zero chance against any serious premiership contender, flat track bullies.

That's ok, this year's been fun making good teams like Richmond look decidedly average. Flat tracking into a prelim

 

[arfadunger]

I'm not saying that the Eagles are contenders for the flag, but we're going well. What I am getting sick of is the amount of sides that have an "off day/night/whatever" when they play us. I think that a lot of people are underestimating the pressure the Eagles are putting on teams which are causing them to play badly.

 

[Mningasimisonda]

I confidently tipped West Coast yesterday and believe they will finish top 4. They seem to be clearly above the pretender contenders, but jury is still out on where they sit relative to Freo, Swans and Hawks.

 

[Farang83150]

For those talking flag, show me one WC supporter who's made such a claim?
All these main board hype posts re WC are being started by opposition supporters, why do you think that is?

 

[Alfonz]

I haven't seen too many (if any) WC supporters claim they are better than the big three.

But they clearly seem to be at least the fourth best side. And have some games against Syd/Haw/Freo at Subi to try and improve their credentials.

Would be very surprised if they don't hold top four. And it's in their own hands to claim a top 2 spot, considering those games mentioned above.

 

[ziad]

how do you define real deal?
11th youngest team without an AA or better defender and our second tall defender through injury. we will be found out at time this season but are developing well as a 'team'. great coach and club will always prosper.

yet to beat a good team this season.

 

[BIRDBRAIN]

how do you define real deal?
11th youngest team without an AA or better defender and our second tall defender through injury. we will be found out at time this season but are developing well as a 'team'. great coach and club will always prosper.

yet to beat a good team this season.

Richmond were considered a good team but since we beat them they are now considered no good and we still haven't beaten a good team.

 

[Roobs321]

Last night was a cracker from the opening bounce, win or lose, was just great to have a good friday night contest. West Coast often looked better overall, but Richmond refused to go away and always looked dangerous. It really felt like a semi final in many ways, I imagined it as a battle for top 4 (assuming Freo, Sydney and Hawthorn will be thereabouts). It confirms that West Coast will be in September and are good enough to finish top 4. Schofield limping in pain from the field is a necessary reminder that we are delicately poised to crumble at any moment, so I'm just trying to enjoy it while it lasts. I'm also suspect about whether our game style will hold up in the big finals. But I absolutely love what Simpson is doing, and beating Richmond at the MCG was a real 'We belong in the 4' win for me, that's what I took away from it.

 

[Trav 20]

Since when has Richmond been considered a good team ? FFS, we've beaten them this year and last.

There are 3 'very good' teams in the competition, 3 or 4 'good ordinary' teams and the rest are 'crud'. Obviously there are degrees of crudness.

West Coast are better than I thought they'd be, but they're no more than a 'good ordinary' team. I tipped them last night because Richmond are 'crud', just one of the better 'cruds'.

 

[Pea Barrel]

Since when has Richmond been considered a good team ? FFS, we've beaten them this year and last.

They won 9 straight to make the finals last year. Although, admittedly, they were smashed by Port in the finals. 2 weeks ago they pulverized Freo in Perth. But yes, they did lose to Melbourne and they were flat last night, so they do have some deficiencies. Still, winning 9 straight and beating Freo on their home patch does suggest that they are on the better side of the ledger.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Since when has Richmond been considered a good team ? FFS, we've beaten them this year and last.

There are 3 'very good' teams in the competition, 3 or 4 'good ordinary' teams and the rest are 'crud'. Obviously there are degrees of crudness.

West Coast are better than I thought they'd be, but they're no more than a 'good ordinary' team. I tipped them last night because Richmond are 'crud', just one of the better 'cruds'.

C'mon, don't be lumping us in with Melbourne. You blokes struggle to win four games a year, let alone four in a row.

Eagles seem to actually be better for the retirements of Cox and Glass. Gives hope to Freo when Sandilands, McPharlin and Pavlich move on.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

But you see, that's only 3 teams. West coast deserve to berated 4th at this stage.

Could be shades of 2011, when West Coast posted a great W/L record and made top four, but were undoubtedly the Ringo of the group that year (Collingwood, Geelong and Hawthorn were the top three). Still, it gave them three games of finals experience and if the team stays together and they have better luck with injuries next year, it could prime them for a serious crack.

I still think a PF exit would be West Coast's ceiling, at this point and that would be a fantastic result for them.

 

[Jafa]

C'mon, don't be lumping us in with Melbourne. You blokes struggle to win four games a year, let alone four in a row.

Eagles seem to actually be better for the retirements of Cox and Glass. Gives hope to Freo when Sandilands, McPharlin and Pavlich move on.

Methinks it has more to do with the retirement of our previous coach.

 

[HBF]

I confidently tipped West Coast yesterday and believe they will finish top 4. They seem to be clearly above the pretender contenders, but jury is still out on where they sit relative to Freo, Swans and Hawks.

And to think they are doing this without a couple of key defenders.
Definite top 4 team this year.

 

[rustyOfOz]

I only have admiration for the eagles after last night. Their pace out of defence and willingness to run and spread was impressive.
Presumably they have a bye next week? I'll watch with interest to see how they manage that, clearly we did not!

 

[Forward Press]

I only have admiration for the eagles after last night. Their pace out of defence and willingness to run and spread was impressive.
Presumably they have a bye next week? I'll watch with interest to see how they manage that, clearly we did not!

I think Simmo has been a revelation to me and our recent form is more due to the game plan. Bye next week then Melbourne at home before a stretch of three tough games.

 

[WCE Wizard]

Well as I always say all you can do is beat who you play, if you are good enough you are good enough. We look forward to playing Hawthorne, Sydney and Freo. Whlst I don't expect to win I do expect our boys to compete hard and test themselves against high quality sides.

We are no way near a premiership team as yet, still a bit of work to do