What’s wrong with the dogs?

[TheGreatBarryB]

Are they missing that down and dirty grunt from Picken and 2016 Libba?

 

[Snake_Baker]

They killed North Ballarat so they'll always be puddle licking scum.

I don't get this angle from the handful of North posters that engage in it on this website. It's certainly not been the case in my experience in the real world. There's bugger all historical animosity between our clubs.

 

[Anja_Nees]

Are they missing that down and dirty grunt from Picken and 2016 Libba?

Yeah Picken, Libba, Morris, Boyd and Smith were crucial in that finals campaign.

Replace them with 18-20 year olds and you’re up against it. Until we either get a few back (Picken and Morris perhaps, Smith is probably finished) or the kids mature we will play some good quarters but do little damage overall.

 

[Chuckie357]

They should trade in mccartin to complete the trifecta of overpaid high draft pick key forward spuds

Better off trading in Dixion, 6 goals from 9 games, where as mcartin has 6 goals from 7 games and has been injured. Can you see who the real spud is? Fits in well with the rest of the port boys who get their wallets out while waxing their hair in front of the mirror

 

[MisterMarcus]

Wrt their lack of scoring, I wonder if they're missing Stringer much more than they expected? Even if he was inconsistent/lazy/out of form, he still needed the opposition to sit a defender on him, possibly 2. That in turn allowed some of their lesser light forwards and mids to sneak in and score.

I also probably think that 2016 was just one of those 'perfect window' years, when the old blokes were still delivering and the youngsters were just hitting their stride. With the retirement or trading of some of these guys, the Doggies have reverted to being Just Another Young Team With Potential.

 

[Sedat!]

He's worth every cent that JJ is getting.

JJ stunk it up last night and for about 6 weeks last year but he has far more tricks in his kitbag than Dahl. He's not worth 600k either but it was (ridiculously) heading towards 800k before his form slump last season.

Dahl is at the crossroads. His one-wood is fanatical defensive pressure - without that he has no weapons whatsoever and is actually hurting us with his diabolical disposal by foot. Also as a small forward he has less scoreboard impact than some full backs in the comp. Massive 12 weeks coming up for him in his career.

 

[ManOfClay]

Going through a pretty heavy rebuild right now. Hit the perfect window in2016 and I’m eternally thankful for that but we are at about 4am on the old premiership clock now. A long way from midnight

 

[SonOfScray]

Wrt their lack of scoring, I wonder if they're missing Stringer much more than they expected? Even if he was inconsistent/lazy/out of form, he still needed the opposition to sit a defender on him, possibly 2. That in turn allowed some of their lesser light forwards and mids to sneak in and score.

I also probably think that 2016 was just one of those 'perfect window' years, when the old blokes were still delivering and the youngsters were just hitting their stride. With the retirement or trading of some of these guys, the Doggies have reverted to being Just Another Young Team With Potential.

re: 2016, that's about right, though if it was "just" one of those things you'd see teams do it more often, surely. We certainly got tremendous value out of Boyd, Morris, Murphy etc across 15/16, with a very young side who were fresh and had that pep in their step, unencumbered by carrying injuries, playing hurt etc. We hung in by the skin of our teeth on the injuries front, but I think it took a toll.

Re: stringer, I think we knew what we were giving up on. Stats suggest his replacement is matching/exceeding his output, but that 2015 form and the threat it generated can't be replaced. Feel as though if we kicked straighter, this wouldn't be a consideration.

 

[Snake_Baker]

JJ stunk it up last night and for about 6 weeks last year but he has far more tricks in his kitbag than Dahl. He's not worth 600k either but it was (ridiculously) heading towards 800k before his form slump last season.

Dahl is at the crossroads. His one-wood is fanatical defensive pressure - without that he has no weapons whatsoever and is actually hurting us with his diabolical disposal by foot. Also as a small forward he has less scoreboard impact than some full backs in the comp. Massive 12 weeks coming up for him in his career.

We must be watching different players.

Dalhaus destroys JJ in tackles 46 - 19, which places him high amongst forward mids in the competition, and the most damning stat is that he outpoints JJ, a defender, in defensive half pressure acts by 69 to 58!!!!!

If I had to pick one of them the choice would be very easy. I'd give Dal $550K x 4 in a heart beat.

 

[Sedat!]

We must be watching different players.

Dalhaus destroys JJ in tackles 46 - 19, which places him high amongst forward mids, and the most damning stat is that he outpoints JJ, a defender, in defensive half pressure acts by 69 to 58.

If I had to pick one of them the choice would be very easy. I'd give Dal $550K x 4 in a heart beat.

Defensive pressure acts are the domain of small forwards in the modern game. If Dahl isn't smashing JJ in this area he would be offering absolutely nothing.

What is Dahl's scoreboard impact compared to every other small forward in the comp? If he's not bottom in the entire competition he'd be close.

 

[ManOfClay]

Dahlhaus should stay and focus on getting his offensive game back to standard. Isn’t there right now but he’s a much loved clubman

 

[Sedat!]

Dahlhaus should stay and focus on getting his offensive game back to standard. Isn’t there right now but he’s a much loved clubman

Salt of the earth types are very difficult calls to make. Mitch Wallis also falls into this category. Some tough list management decisions coming up.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Defensive pressure acts are the domain of small forwards in the modern game. If Dahl isn't smashing JJ in this area he would be offering absolutely nothing.

No, no no mate, you read that incorrectly. Defensive half pressure acts.

Dal's T50 numbers could be better I agree, but it's not a significant number, as I rate him as a high half forward and not an inside 50 forward..

What is Dahl's scoreboard impact compared to every other small forward in the comp? If he's not bottom in the entire competition he'd be close.

5.6 SI's, Macrae leads at the Bulldogs with 7.1 but he also gets a lot more ball.

Shane Edwards is probably the highest ranked player by player comparison (7.0)

I also think Dal is negatively affected from an SI perspective by your game plan. He could have more offensive impact if the team wasn't so midfield possession oriented.

 

[Damon_3388]

Crying out for a strong, physical ruckman to clear space and protect the other midfielders.

Got absolutely dictated to by Brodie Grundy last night, and while he's going to do that to a number of teams regardless, it's been an ongoing problem for the Dogs for a few years now. They managed to "get away with it" in 2016 because they had enough quality across the rest of the field to make up for it.

Roughead's actual ruckwork is mediocre, Boyd and Trengove just aren't ruckmen, and English isn't physically ready, so gets suckered in to that "I'll run off and gather some cheap touches, and pass that off as good ruckwork" mindset.

 

[Mootsy]

Yeah Picken, Libba, Morris, Boyd and Smith were crucial in that finals campaign.

Replace them with 18-20 year olds and you’re up against it. Until we either get a few back (Picken and Morris perhaps, Smith is probably finished) or the kids mature we will play some good quarters but do little damage overall.

This sums the thread up in one sentence!

 

[Snake_Baker]

They don't have a ruckman, period, but it's a tactical choice they choose to employ.

 

[ManOfClay]

It’s no coincidence that in 2016 Bont was so dominant because he was able to go third man up and influence the ruck. Also meant with his athleticism opponents would lose him because he’d do that and spread.

He’s a very good player still but that rule change certainly nullified him.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Crying out for a strong, physical ruckman to clear space and protect the other midfielders.

Got absolutely dictated to by Brodie Grundy last night, and while he's going to do that to a number of teams regardless, it's been an ongoing problem for the Dogs for a few years now. They managed to "get away with it" in 2016 because they had enough quality across the rest of the field to make up for it.

Roughead's actual ruckwork is mediocre, Boyd and Trengove just aren't ruckmen, and English isn't physically ready, so gets suckered in to that "I'll run off and gather some cheap touches, and pass that off as good ruckwork" mindset.

Give English credit he will be good if he develops as you'd expect. Who at the club can mentor him and give him an example to follow us a fair question though. Coaching is one thing but he needs that as well I think.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Give English credit he will be good if he develops as you'd expect. Who at the club can mentor him and give him an example to follow us a fair question though. Coaching is one thing but he needs that as well I think.

It's an indictment on the bulldog list management that he is even playing AFL at the moment.

Again, this is a problem of their own making.

 

[Anja_Nees]

Wrt their lack of scoring, I wonder if they're missing Stringer much more than they expected? Even if he was inconsistent/lazy/out of form, he still needed the opposition to sit a defender on him, possibly 2. That in turn allowed some of their lesser light forwards and mids to sneak in and score.

I also probably think that 2016 was just one of those 'perfect window' years, when the old blokes were still delivering and the youngsters were just hitting their stride. With the retirement or trading of some of these guys, the Doggies have reverted to being Just Another Young Team With Potential.

Take Stringer out and insert Gowers and you don’t lose much. X factor maybe but Gowers is a better mark.

The issue is Picken, Smith and Dickson, who were more important in the finals campaign, have barely been on the park at all.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

It's an indictment on the bulldog list management that he is even playing AFL at the moment.

Again, this is a problem of their own making.

Undiubdtly they made a choice not to rate rucks, and they've not yet changed direction when they should have. Grigg gave a false indication last year in my view, tacticians were always going to counter a dead ruck in time with the current rules.

 

[Igloo]

I would be playing Campbell instead of Roughead as a ruck. He's not great, but he's big and strong and at least competes at the taps. Roughy is just about done, but Campbell still can't get a look in.

 

[AZZA_23]

JJ is just such a downright bad footballer. That he stole a Norm Smith after butchering the ball all day off several more worthy players is a travesty.

I'd much rather have Stringer at West Coast. Ignoring Lamumba's political beliefs, JJ reminds me of Lamumba's careless and horrible kicking.

Oh dear what a short/bad memory you have - I guess E. Yeo will be handing back his AA guernsey back he fleeced, and while we’re at it, Luke Shuey better return the Elimination Final win he stole off Port Adelaide - how he can look in the mirror and call himself a footballer is a travesty.

 

[Magpie Since 1986]

No disrespect to the dogs '16 premiership as they were the best side during the finals and thoroughly deserved the flag, but they played out of their skin with a truly amazing 4-weeks of football. The team in 2016 finished 7th in home and away and that is roughly where there list was at. So it is not like a dominant side that has had a massive fall from grace. They were a decent side that have had a few changes (retirements, injuries etc) and understandably have dropped back from a decent top 8 side to outside the 8. This happens all the time with lists, just less noticeable when we don't have the anomaly of history where a 7th placed side snares a flag.

 

[ManOfClay]

No disrespect to the dogs '16 premiership as they were the best side during the finals and thoroughly deserved the flag, but they played out of their skin with a truly amazing 4-weeks of football. The team in 2016 finished 7th in home and away and that is roughly where there list was at. So it is not like a dominant side that has had a massive fall from grace. They were a decent side that have had a few changes (retirements, injuries etc) and understandably have dropped back from a decent top 8 side to outside the 8. This happens all the time with lists, just less noticeable when we don't have the anomaly of history where a 7th placed side snares a flag.

A fair summation and good to see a reasonable view rather than "ha ha fluke they is shit"