What does Neil Craig have to do to keep his job?

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Freddy Bassett said:
Not sure about 95%. "Culture" has a massive, massive impact.
Players who got traded from year 2000 to Sydney had a much much better success rate than players traded to Fremantle or Richmond. Dont tell me that has nothing to do with Sydney's strong culture and leadership and development.
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That number's plucked from thin air.. I thought about going with 90%, but decided to up it to 95%.

You are absolutely right with your comments about Sydney. I still think that the majority of it comes from within the player themselves though.
 
alex_is_on_fire said:
He left that summer we drafted Gill because of a lack of opportunity.
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Watts was traded at the end of 2005.
Gill was drafted at the end of 2006.

The events were 12 months apart. Short of hopping in a TARDIS, I fail to see how the decision to draft Gill had any bearing on Watts' departure. If anything, the reverse is true - Watts' departure left us another KPP forward down, creating the need for Gill's arrival. Yes, Watts left because he wasn't getting opportunities - but Gill wasn't the player keeping him out of the team.

As for Obst.. We chopped him at the end of 2006. North rolled the dice on him in the RD at the end of 2007. He played 5 games in 2 years, before getting delisted permanently. I hardly think he was the man to fill the gap in our forward line in 2007.

Meesen was not "plug and play" ready. He had a gaping hole in his chest cavity, where his heart was supposed to be. This physical deformity had a severe limiting impact on his chances of ever eking out a long-term AFL football career.

As for our drafting in 04/05..

In '04 we drafted for needs, picking up 3 ruckmen - Meesen, Maric and Griffin (in the RD). This was a reflection of the fact that Biglands & Clarke were 28 & 32 and we had no other ruckmen on our list. We also picked up Gibson, hoping that he'd turn out to be a superstar forward for us. He was perpetually injured and was delisted as soon as his initial contract expired. Other than that, we picked up VB & Knights, who have both been OK.

'05 was a terribly weak draft. We actually did OK in getting 2 regular players out of it - Vince & Douglas. Pfeiffer could/can definitely play, but was more interested in being a player than a footballer. Obst was our last pick in a very sorry excuse for a draft class.

We drafted 2x KPP forwards in that period and both of them turned out to be failures. This is why we needed to go back to the well again in 2006 (Sellar, Tippett, Gill) and 2007 (Walker).
 

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Vader said:
Watts was traded at the end of 2005.
Gill was drafted at the end of 2006.

The events were 12 months apart. Short of hopping in a TARDIS, I fail to see how the decision to draft Gill had any bearing on Watts' departure. If anything, the reverse is true - Watts' departure left us another KPP forward down, creating the need for Gill's arrival. Yes, Watts left because he wasn't getting opportunities - but Gill wasn't the player keeping him out of the team.

As for Obst.. We chopped him at the end of 2006. North rolled the dice on him in the RD at the end of 2007. He played 5 games in 2 years, before getting delisted permanently. I hardly think he was the man to fill the gap in our forward line in 2007.

Meesen was not "plug and play" ready. He had a gaping hole in his chest cavity, where his heart was supposed to be. This physical deformity had a severe limiting impact on his chances of ever eking out a long-term AFL football career.
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Regardless, drafting Nick Gill was simply being short sited and leaving us in the predicament we are now. And I'm not saying we should have drafted skellator from Port either.
 
Vader said:
That number's plucked from thin air.. I thought about going with 90%, but decided to up it to 95%.

You are absolutely right with your comments about Sydney. I still think that the majority of it comes from within the player themselves though.
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I think you are right, but to get to AFL level in the first place..... Once you are in the system, I think the clubs culture and development are almost as crucial as the players drive from within
 
alex_is_on_fire said:
Regardless, drafting Nick Gill was simply being short sited and leaving us in the predicament we are now. And I'm not saying we should have drafted skellator from Port either.
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What other options did we have, in 2006, other than to draft a ready-to-go KPP forward?

Note that we'd already selected Sellar & Tippett as development KPPs for the future, with our 1st and 2nd selections in the same draft.
 
Nick Gill had a massive engine, good pace and took a great grab. We have had much bigger duds than him on our list. The Gill bashing is a bit unfair, there were times he looked like he could be a very good player
 
Carl Spackler said:
Are you saying that clubs and coaches can have no positive impact on a player?

In essence a player 'is what he is'?
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It was speculative at best and you make a good point Carl. How anyone can say what would have or could have been for the likes of Watts, Meesen, Gibson, Pfieffer, Obst, Curnow or whoever you want to throw up is beyond me.

Vader quite rightly calls out some crap posting on this board but constantly speculating and passing off opinion as fact is not that becoming either.
 
Freddy Bassett said:
Nick Gill had a massive engine, good pace and took a great grab. We have had much bigger duds than him on our list. The Gill bashing is a bit unfair, there were times he looked like he could be a very good player
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And then his body let him down. His body let him down before he was drafted and let him after he was drafted....you tell me the common denominator in that equation.
 
Vader said:
Not sure how you got that out of my post.. but I'll give it a go anyway.

Clubs & coaches can have both positive and negative impacts on their players. However, I'd say that 95% of what makes a player good or bad comes from within. The club can develop the player and give them an environment in which to grow, but if the player doesn't have what it takes physically, mentally and emotionally, then they're never going to succeed at the highest level.

Note that the percentage is much lower for late converts to the game - such as Tippett (who had played less than 20 games of Aussie Rules football when we drafted him), Hunt/Folau (rugby league converts), or players from foreign backgrounds (eg the Irish). These players have less grounding in the game and their habits (both good & bad) are not yet ingrained. The club has a much greater ability to mould and form these players than they do a kid who has been kicking the footy since he was old enough to walk.
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I'm not sure you understand what I was alluding to.

For instance, how does someone like Kepler Bradley suddenly start producing good football after six or seven fairly mediocre seasons?

Did Fremantle suddenly get some better coaches in the last 12 months? Has Bradley gained some extra skills?

A players performance depends on more than just the ability of the player.
 
alex_is_on_fire said:
And then his body let him down. His body let him down before he was drafted and let him after he was drafted....you tell me the common denominator in that equation.
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His body obviously. Im struggling to get your point. Are you saying we shouldnt draft players who have injury issues before the draft? Like Joel Selwood, Jackson Trengove, Dyson Heppell, Phil Davis etc
 
Freddy Bassett said:
His body obviously. Im struggling to get your point. Are you saying we shouldnt draft players who have injury issues before the draft? Like Joel Selwood, Jackson Trengove, Dyson Heppell, Phil Davis etc
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We shouldn't draft players with suspect skills and and bodies suspect to soft tissue injuries and tried and failed in the AFL system before.
 

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Vader said:
What coach wouldn't?

The fact that we're seeing articles like this is a very good sign that the end days are rapidly approaching.
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What we need now is S. Trigg to come out and say he is safe as the eye can see....oh wait.
 
Vader said:
What coach wouldn't?

The fact that we're seeing articles like this is a very good sign that the end days are rapidly approaching.
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Agreed.

This is probably NC's last chance to be a head coach and I completely understand why he wouldn't walk away.

My questions has always been whether the AFC board have the balls to pull Trigg-er.
 
BunjiMac said:
Agreed.

This is probably NC's last chance to be a head coach and I completely understand why he wouldn't walk away.

My questions has always been whether the AFC board have the balls to pull Trigg-er.
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Its the only way Craig will leave the club, he will have to be dragged kicking and screaming out of the AFC. Based on that article I would like to know what he means by "the high quality of the playing group", what does this actually mean? Seeing that they have put in so many pathetic efforts this year he certainly is not talking about on field quality.

I hate his interviews so much and the way he talks, its the same rubbish all the time, "we understand that" "playing group" etc. Speak so that supporters can relate to you for goodness sake.
 
Just saw Neil on the news. Glad to see you are enjoying the coaching more than you have ever had before because I am sure there are plenty of people who aren't enjoying watching you "coach".
 

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What does Neil Craig have to do to keep his job?

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