Analysis What list is in the worst state?

[Blue1980]

Hitting the draft is no guarantee of success.

Look at the list of number 1 draft picks from 2008 to 2014:
Watts
Scully
Swallow
Patton
Whitfield
Boyd
McCartin

Hardly an inspiring list. Whitfield is really the only one anyone would sell the farm for with the benefit of hindsight.

I’m not saying you need to finish last every year, just saying use more picks than Hawthorn have been.

Lack of using picks of any kind in the top 40 and trading them away has lead to a lesser collection of young talent in the list than anyone else. (give or take one or two others)

 

[Gohawthorn13]

That's not so much a "core group" as the middle of a decent list (Mitchell excepted), missing all the top-end talent. With the exception of Worpel, you couldn't expect much natural improvement from any of them. Keeping in mind, those guys are all there right now and the Hawks finished 3rd last.

Line that up against Hawthorn's triple premiership core of Hodge, Roughy, Franklin, Mitchell, Lewis, Gibson, Rioli, Lake/Frawley and you'll see how far removed Hawthorn are from that kind of success with their current list.

Your moving the goalposts. That is a core group that’s good enough to build around wingard Mitchell worpel and omeara is a good start for a midfield group in 2016 you could of said the same thing about Richmond last year about port things change quickly.

 

[Gohawthorn13]

Bombers might not be the worst, but at least Hawks, Swans, North and Adelaide know where they are at.

The talent gap between the best and worst is lower than it’s ever been so I think teams can improve rapidly.

 

[Gohawthorn13]

0% chance of that.

100% chance, your being fooled by recency bias, hawthorn have talent And yes they had a bad season but teams have had shocking seasons then bounced back the next year. The reality is the circumstances of the season helped some teams and and hurt others, we were one of those.Next season might be different things might go in our favour. And this rating Carlton Highly crap is just that crap. They’ve done nothing for a decade.

 

[Gohawthorn13]

0% chance of that.

Before hawthorn moved into the hub they were playing very good footy 3-1 beat Brisbane and Richmond comfortably. They’ve shown what they can do when things go right. Hopefully next season teams can play back in Victoria. Haven’t played a game with any home ground advantage since rnd 1. I think they’ll learn from their mistakes.

 

[Gohawthorn13]

That’s a pretty sad core to carry you through.

Can’t see much a grade talent there.

Really need to draft well from here, though Clarko seems to think that’s too hard.

Sad core,it’s a Brownlow medalist all Australians and very good players who you got Patrick Cripps then doughnuts after that. Omeara is A grade talent a B grade player at the moment But he’ll get better Mitchell is A grade worpel has shown he could be A grade, Wingard also. Will day is super talented Sicily is A grade injured at the moment but he’ll be back.

 

[Gohawthorn13]

The problem is your improved performance has come from your old timers ( Murphy E curnow into the mids) so the growth and exposure for your young uns isnt there.

My biggest problem with Mckay and C.Curnow is that they havent torn a game up.

I also think Martins exposure to the GC may hold him back from being the player the Blues want.

Weitering, i know theres a view of him being good to great, but I have him as a serviceable 200 game No.1 pick not a world beater.

As for Walsh- If he sticks to the dinky 15-25m kicks (which he executes well) he'll play 200 games but I dont see the wow factor. I compared him to Rhys Palmer ( who had a similarily great 1st season who didnt stay at that level)

I can see how you rate your list higher than the other 4 clubs you've listed however.

Carlton aren’t better than Hawthorn we gave em a 5 goal head start and beat them by 5 in our worst form in a while.if they couldn’t beat us this year they won’t anytime soon.

 

[Gohawthorn13]

Lol

Laugh all you want your club is the joke of the comp over the last decade and we will be better than you.

 

[FairKouta]

Laugh all you want your club is the joke of the comp over the last decade and we will be better than you.

Lol

 

[Saint]

Your moving the goalposts. That is a core group that’s good enough to build around wingard Mitchell worpel and omeara is a good start for a midfield group in 2016 you could of said the same thing about Richmond last year about port things change quickly.

You were obviously too young, but in 2015, Cotchin and Martin combined for 38 Brownlow votes. Pretty comfortable everyone knew they were pretty good when 2016 started (and they combined for 34 brownlow votes in a team which finished 13th).

Hawthorn is hardly in that position. Worpel and O'Meara combined for 21 votes last year (Mitchell obviously injured). Mitchell, O'Meara and Worpel would be lucky to get that many between all three of them this season.

 

[Sportsmad93]

Hate to admit it, but it's us atm as we seem to be stuck in mediocrity and we don't know where we are at. Though a new coach, bad percentage and a bad 2020 means the only option is to bottom out and rebuild. Hawthorn and North Melbourne are also in a world of trouble.

I like the direction of Adelaide and Gold Coast.

Carlton and Melbourne have average lists, but improved to what they were. I'd still put Fremantle, St Kilda and the Bulldogs list ahead of them both though.

 

[Damon_3388]

I don’t ask this in a smart arse sense but I’ve honestly not watched any of north this year aside from against us, just read the odd match report - what the hell has happened to Ben Brown? I know he wasn’t the spawn of Lockett and Ablett and there was always a knock on him for getting a lot of frees but the guy was/is a genuinely good goal kicking forward.

He's had injury and personal issues this year, but I feel like you need somewhat of a predictable, antiquated attacking gameplan, that directs most of the forward entries to him, for him to produce at his top output too. IMO he's ultra supply-reliant and system based, rather than kicking goals from individual brilliance.

 

[windyhill]

Essendon, there’s a wooden spoon in the offering in 1-2 years.

 

[Gohawthorn13]

You were obviously too young, but in 2015, Cotchin and Martin combined for 38 Brownlow votes. Pretty comfortable everyone knew they were pretty good when 2016 started (and they combined for 34 brownlow votes in a team which finished 13th).

Hawthorn is hardly in that position. Worpel and O'Meara combined for 21 votes last year (Mitchell obviously injured). Mitchell, O'Meara and Worpel would be lucky to get that many between all three of them this season.

No actually I wasn’t too young at all what were there Brownlow votes in 2016, pretty sure Tom Mitchell almost got 38 votes by himself in 2018 what’s your point I can pick and choose years to suit my argument too.

 

[Richo83]

I kinda agree with the Essendon call. Daniher is cooked and is likely to go anyway, meaning they don't have any good key forwards. They have a mediocre midfield which won't ever allow them to rebuild properly with top talent but won't win them many finals. Lack of elite key backs. Their list of good under 23 year olds includes Ridley, Draper and McGrath and then the list ends. Sheesh.

 

[DemonDays]

'Which list' not 'what list'.

Jesus wept.

 

[roacheee]

Yet were flogged by 17 goals. And Dusty at that time was nowhere near where he got to even 1 year later, despite getting an AA.

but.......we'd made the previous 3 finals.
that's the difference

 

[WaywardSonSon]

Sad core,it’s a Brownlow medalist all Australians and very good players who you got Patrick Cripps then doughnuts after that. Omeara is A grade talent a B grade player at the moment But he’ll get better Mitchell is A grade worpel has shown he could be A grade, Wingard also. Will day is super talented Sicily is A grade injured at the moment but he’ll be back.

A full-stop and/or comma, could prove to be your best friend!

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

That responce made me laugh a fair bit.

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

It can all turn very quickly and I remember thinking similar things 12 months before teh Dogs won a flag... But North list looks to be the most ordinary list I can remember..

Probably the most concerning thing is for a club with few supporters to have basically no players with any spunk... If you are a 12yo kid who supports North, whos number do you put on your back.. Ben Brown is the only one and there is talk he will leave.

12 months before we won the flag we just lost in the elimination final because i think they got stage fright in most of the players first final

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

Before hawthorn moved into the hub they were playing very good footy 3-1 beat Brisbane and Richmond comfortably. They’ve shown what they can do when things go right. Hopefully next season teams can play back in Victoria. Haven’t played a game with any home ground advantage since rnd 1. I think they’ll learn from their mistakes.

You are very very nieve i think.

 

[Eagle Wrath]

I would say North Melbourne by a mile. And now they plan on getting rid of Brown, who is probably their only decent player atm.

 

[BigFrizz36]

A full-stop and/or comma, could prove to be your best friend!

Think that he might have gone off to hold his breath till people stopped saying bad things about his hawks.

 

[HairyO]

I would say North Melbourne by a mile. And now they plan on getting rid of Brown, who is probably their only decent player atm.

Full reboot coming. The smart ones take a couple of years. The dumb ones take a decade and go nowhere.

 

[Dangerousfield]

100% chance, your being fooled by recency bias, hawthorn have talent And yes they had a bad season but teams have had shocking seasons then bounced back the next year. The reality is the circumstances of the season helped some teams and and hurt others, we were one of those.Next season might be different things might go in our favour. And this rating Carlton Highly crap is just that crap. They’ve done nothing for TWO decades.

Fixed that for you!