When will the Carlton FC Arrive? Part 2

[maxiboy238]

Interesting choice Voss
From what I’ve seen is super competitive, wants to prove AFL world he can coach
Clarko sounds burn out

 

[Toump Ass]

Voss has a winning% of what, 30 percent? Trashed the Lions list then spent a decade getting knocked back for senior jobs while cruising at Port, whose greatest achievement since is shitting the bed in home prelim finals.

Great get.

 

[Ambrosia]

I’ve got no doubt that these Carlton ITKs were told Clarko is coming. It sounds like the typical Carlton arrogance and bravado, delusions from a bygone era when the club actually had some power and influence. I’m sure many connected to the club thought they’d get him.

Yeah the majority of the ITK seem to be blokes who go along to every training that are fed positive spin by whichever poor Carlton official is silly enough to talk to them.

 

[Chief]

How long till Carlton ask for Clarko again?

Needs a thread.

 

[Kings of Lygon]

I still think Lyon would have been the best fit after Clarko.

Unfortunately, woke politics looks like costing us a perfect fit to coach us IMO. Don't mention that elsewhere though, they really come hard for you.

 

[Percel]

Unfortunately, woke politics looks like costing us a perfect fit to coach us IMO. Don't mention that elsewhere though, they really come hard for you.

Woke politics?

 

[faible]

Woke politics?

Those pesky women not wanting to be subject to sexual comments in the workplace.

 

[Kings of Lygon]

Woke politics?

There's speculation that a big reason Ross withdrew from our process was because members of the board were against his appointment due to the unproven allegations regarding a female staffer from his time at Fremantle and wanted him to openly discuss them, despite being bound by a NDA. Being cleared by the AFL integrity department, not having any police charges laid and a legal settlement between the parties being reached is not good enough for some.

Some of us are pretty annoyed that we might miss out on a coach who was very keen and seemed like a great fit because of this. Anyone with that opinion is usually lambasted.

 

[Percel]

There's speculation that a big reason Ross withdrew from our process was because members of the board were against his appointment due to the unproven allegations regarding a female staffer from his time at Fremantle and wanted him to openly discuss them, despite being bound by a NDA. Being cleared by the AFL integrity department, not having any police charges laid and a legal settlement between the parties being reached is not good enough for some.

Some of us are pretty annoyed that we might miss out on a coach who was very keen and seemed like a great fit because of this. Anyone with that opinion is usually lambasted.

Cheers, appreciate the response

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

So this scenario was actually true?

You looking for a pat on the back?
Potentially, but I never said it wasn't. My point was that the door was clearly still open until fully shut. Clarko shut it last night, but his comments made it clear he was seriously considering it and discussed it with his family.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Those pesky women not wanting to be subject to sexual comments in the workplace.

Won’t someone think of the sexual predators

 

[LordLucifer]

There's speculation that a big reason Ross withdrew from our process was because members of the board were against his appointment due to the unproven allegations regarding a female staffer from his time at Fremantle and wanted him to openly discuss them, despite being bound by a NDA. Being cleared by the AFL integrity department, not having any police charges laid and a legal settlement between the parties being reached is not good enough for some.

Some of us are pretty annoyed that we might miss out on a coach who was very keen and seemed like a great fit because of this. Anyone with that opinion is usually lambasted.

I'm not going to get into the nuances of "he said she said" over Lyon's indiscretion but the fact is, Freo making a confidential settlement would suggest that something did happen.

If the people in our club felt that having him as coach had the potential to get people offside because of it and that was a reason for him not staying in the coaching race then that is something to be applauded, not chastised for.

 

[Toump Ass]

Unfortunately, woke politics looks like costing us a perfect fit to coach us IMO. Don't mention that elsewhere though, they really come hard for you.

Agree, that "Carlton Respects" program might have cost you a flag or two.

Unlucky that unlawful assault isn't part of the program, otherwise Voss would be out of contention.

 

[raffrox]

Cook is going to have a massive challenge on his hands to change the paper bag era way of working that still permeates that entire club. There's still that belief that bucket loads of cash will fix things. The introduction of the salary cap era has been Carltons undoing and one of their major contributions has been to see the rules tightened after the Judd-Visy scenario.

‘Pay whatever the cost’: The extraordinary lengths Blues were prepared to go to land Clarko

‘Pay whatever the cost’: The extraordinary lengths Blues were prepared to go to land Clarko

www.foxsports.com.au

The introduction of the salary cap era has been Carltons undoing and one of their major contributions has been to see the rules tightened after the Judd-Visy scenario. I don't think there will be much progress until they truly realise that just doesn't work any more.

 

[Kings of Lygon]

I'm not going to get into the nuances of "he said she said" over Lyon's indiscretion but the fact is, Freo making a confidential settlement would suggest that something did happen.

If the people in our club felt that having him as coach had the potential to get people offside because of it and that was a reason for him not staying in the coaching race then that is something to be applauded, not chastised for.

My point is I don't think it's for anyone to get into suggesting something did or didn't happen or what the severity of it was or wasn't, which you have gone and done like many others. Lyon was cleared by the AFL integrity department, didn't have any police charges laid and an agreement was reached between the relevant parties.

I respect your opinion on the matter and if you don't like the idea of Ross as coach, that's up to you. The problem with the latter half of your post is the question of how far do clubs go in placating those who get offside over things? If recent history is any guide, the things that people are getting offiside and upset over are becoming more and more obscure, minor and confusing.

I'm annoyed at the situation as I believe it's played out the way I've described it re. the board and Lyon, but it is what it is. I think we've missed a massive opportunity at getting in a good coach that players rave about not only as a football person, but as a person full stop.

 

[Metalcrusher]

Cook is going to have a massive challenge on his hands to change the paper bag era way of working that still permeates that entire club. There's still that belief that bucket loads of cash will fix things. The introduction of the salary cap era has been Carltons undoing and one of their major contributions has been to see the rules tightened after the Judd-Visy scenario.

‘Pay whatever the cost’: The extraordinary lengths Blues were prepared to go to land Clarko

‘Pay whatever the cost’: The extraordinary lengths Blues were prepared to go to land Clarko

www.foxsports.com.au

The introduction of the salary cap era has been Carltons undoing and one of their major contributions has been to see the rules tightened after the Judd-Visy scenario. I don't think there will be much progress until they truly realise that just doesn't work any more.

Thats an awesome echo you have going there ... keep reinforcing the message

 

[raffrox]

Thats an awesome echo you have going there ... keep reinforcing the message

No really. I hope that your mob does continue to ignore history. If you want an echo chamber then look no further than the posts from Carlton supporters in this thread. Complete Iraqi Information Minister quality rants here.

Any counter argument or proof that I'm wrong? Yeah, didn't think so.

 

[Metalcrusher]

No really. I hope that your mob does continue to ignore history. If you want an echo chamber then look no further than the posts from Carlton supporters in this thread. Complete Iraqi Information Minister quality rants here.

Any counter argument or proof that I'm wrong? Yeah, didn't think so.

I prefer this one ...

 

[Soggy2112]

My point is I don't think it's for anyone to get into suggesting something did or didn't happen or what the severity of it was or wasn't, which you have gone and done like many others. Lyon was cleared by the AFL integrity department, didn't have any police charges laid and an agreement was reached between the relevant parties.

I respect your opinion on the matter and if you don't like the idea of Ross as coach, that's up to you. The problem with the latter half of your post is the question of how far do clubs go in placating those who get offside over things? If recent history is any guide, the things that people are getting offiside and upset over are becoming more and more obscure, minor and confusing.

I'm annoyed at the situation as I believe it's played out the way I've described it re. the board and Lyon, but it is what it is. I think we've missed a massive opportunity at getting in a good coach that players rave about not only as a football person, but as a person full stop.

Wouldn’t it be somewhat reasonable for board members of a club who’s responsibility it is to ensure they provide a safe working environment to have some concerns about hiring a coach who has made a confidential settlement regarding sexual harassment allegations?

 

[Metalcrusher]

Wouldn’t it be somewhat reasonable for board members of a club who’s responsibility it is to ensure they provide a safe working environment to have some concerns about hiring a coach who has made a confidential settlement regarding sexual harassment allegations?

See if you applied yourself in the match thread like this, I may be more tolerant

 

[Kings of Lygon]

Wouldn’t it be somewhat reasonable for board members of a club who’s responsibility it is to ensure they provide a safe working environment to have some concerns about hiring a coach who has made a confidential settlement regarding sexual harassment allegations?

I think you've answered your own question with regards to the bolded. All parties agreed to confidentiality and that should be the end of it, for all concerned.

The court of public opinion (of some) and speculation should not be put ahead of the legal and justice systems, ever. Lyon was not stood down or even sanctioned by Fremantle over the incident and nothing was found by two more official bodies to be serious enough to take action against Lyon over.

 

[Hawkboy62]

And this probably is an unpopular opinion, but you've probably dodged a bullet with Clarko. I've sensed he was burnt out even last year.

Lost to North after being 5 goals up, lost by 70 to Saints, lost to Freo twice, lost to Crows. Even lost to Carlton. Lost the team.
All the fault of Covid.

Dead coach bounce was only to deny Sam of JHF.

 

[Soggy2112]

I think you've answered your own question with regards to the bolded. All parties agreed to confidentiality and that should be the end of it, for all concerned.

The court of public opinion (of some) and speculation should not be put ahead of the legal and justice systems, ever. Lyon was not stood down or even sanctioned by Fremantle over the incident and nothing was found by two more official bodies to be serious enough to take action against Lyon over.

Yes, there should be no sanctions and from a legal perspective the matter is ended.

However, as a potential future employer that does represent a risk, and one that it I was going to hire him I’d want to do a pretty thorough character assessment to determine if that risk is legitimate. If Ross couldn’t handle that then so be it.

I don’t think he should have a line put through him as a coach, but I do think whatever club does hire him would need to consider it as a factor and Ross needs to accept that.

 

[Gethelred]

I think you've answered your own question with regards to the bolded. All parties agreed to confidentiality and that should be the end of it, for all concerned.

The court of public opinion (of some) and speculation should not be put ahead of the legal and justice systems, ever. Lyon was not stood down or even sanctioned by Fremantle over the incident and nothing was found by two more official bodies to be serious enough to take action against Lyon over.

Begging the question.

Could you provide evidence that Ross Lyon was rejected or withdrew from the Carlton coaching process because of the sexual harassment suit?

 

[Kings of Lygon]

Yes, there should be no sanctions and from a legal perspective the matter is ended.

However, as a potential future employer that does represent a risk, and one that it I was going to hire him I’d want to do a pretty thorough character assessment to determine if that risk is legitimate. If Ross couldn’t handle that then so be it.

I don’t think he should have a line put through him as a coach, but I do think whatever club does hire him would need to consider it as a factor and Ross needs to accept that.

It represents a risk if you let it represent a risk. Every person comes with some level of risk from all manner of perspectives, I'm just not prepared to accept Ross represents a challenge to a safe working environment based on speculation from some people wanting to be seen to be virtuous at all costs, no matter the facts.

My opinion is that Ross felt he was up against it because of a certain amount of board members were dead against him from the start for reasons that are speculative at best. That's not a conducive environment for success and job security for him and he said "thanks, but no thanks". I think it's a shame and not how I would conduct the process, however we entrust people to run our club and all I can do is speak my opinion as a member.

I appreciate you discussing this reasonably and definitely see where you are coming from. I'm just disappointed as I think Ross was almost perfect for our list and I loath 'politics' and 'agendas' (for want of better descriptors) being involved heavily in sport.

Begging the question.

Could you provide evidence that Ross Lyon was rejected or withdrew from the Carlton coaching process because of the sexual harassment suit?

It's my view. I've read multiple media reports of it being the situation that split the board/selection panel on Ross and it logically makes sense to me.

It's not a view that goes against legal or justice system rulings if you're thinking of conflating the discussion into "Why can you have an opinion and speculate when others can't?"