Opinion Which club do you hate the most?

[Mr Meeseeks]

Gold Coast.

I'm ****en sick of them. One season in their history outside the bottom 6.

Every year we get a bunch of pissed off parents on draft night as their pride and joy is dragged to gc to waste the first half of their careers.

They constantly get advantages gifted to them (usually in the form of more kids to ruin) and they piss them all up the wall. The can't trade for shit (Weller for pick 2!), their pres is a clown and the club is a basket case.

They can't get big names yet 2 of the best players they have brought in from elsewhere (Lyons and Greenwood), they have delisted. DELISTED!

Can we just piss them off, it's ruining the competition.

Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk

 

[i am a logo]

Gold Coast.

I'm fu**en sick of them. One season in their history outside the bottom 6.

Every year we get a bunch of pissed off parents on draft night as their pride and joy is dragged to gc to waste the first half of their careers.

They constantly get advantages gifted to them (usually in the form of more kids to ruin) and they piss them all up the wall. The can't trade for sh*t (Weller for pick 2!), their pres is a clown and the club is a basket case.

They can't get big names yet 2 of the best players they have brought in from elsewhere (Lyons and Greenwood), they have delisted. DELISTED!

Can we just piss them off, it's ruining the competition.

Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk

Gold Coast Suns could have been a feel good success story if they hadn't been so badly mismanaged

GWS did in fact become a feel good story on the field, yet there's still a sense of negativity associated with them

If Gold Coast made just one finals series then everyone over there would probably be getting behind the team

GWS make multiple finals series and they're still maligned by the rugby league or soccer types that the AFL were trying to convert

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Gold Coast.

I'm fu**en sick of them. One season in their history outside the bottom 6.

Every year we get a bunch of pissed off parents on draft night as their pride and joy is dragged to gc to waste the first half of their careers.

They constantly get advantages gifted to them (usually in the form of more kids to ruin) and they piss them all up the wall. The can't trade for sh*t (Weller for pick 2!), their pres is a clown and the club is a basket case.

They can't get big names yet 2 of the best players they have brought in from elsewhere (Lyons and Greenwood), they have delisted. DELISTED!

Can we just piss them off, it's ruining the competition.

Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk

Footy is one place where I think it is good to hate. And you are entitled to hate according to your own free will, it is important to acknowledge that.

But I think you are a bit harsh on the Suns in some respects here.

The Suns started with some big disadvantages, especially in terms of facilities. And they are still only just starting, they still have some of their initial intake playing for them. The club and the AFL has made plenty of errors along the way, I agree with that. But if you look at the 12 non-foundation clubs to join the VFL/AFL we can start to put the Suns start into some sort of perspective.

Richmond were a powerful, well supported club when they joined in 1908 and it wasn’t until their 12th season they returned their first positive win/loss ratio.

University entered in 1908 as well, worked their way up to a 10-8 record in just their 3rd season, but their best effort thereafter was 1-17 from 4 seasons and they were never to be seen again in the VFL.

Your club Hawthorn did not record their first positive W/L ratio until their 19th season. Their second one did not come until their 33rd season. Why they were even admitted to the VFL and why they were allowed to stay in the competition has to be cause for much greater scrutiny than anything the Suns should be facing now. nevertheless they became a strong club eventually.

Footscray/Western Bulldogs were also a very strong club when they entered the VFL in 1925, and they did better initially, but still did not play in their first final until their 14th season, and took until their 30th season to win a flag, and as matters stand, have only won 2 in 97 seasons in the competition.

North Melbourne had a few tribulations which weakened them immediately before they entered but were essentially a strong club with a strong following when entering the VFL in 1925. It was not until their 20th season they returned their first positive win/loss ratio. They made finals for the first time the following season. But it took until their 51st season to win a Premiership.

Brisbane Bears did not enjoy a positive win/loss ratio until their 10th season.

West Coast as we know were a virtual state side from the outset, but even they did not win a final until their 4th season in the competition.

Next up was Adelaide Crows, another virtual state side from the start. It took them 3 seasons to enjoy a positive win/loss ratio and win a final. But that was their only positive w/l ratio in their first 6 seasons.

Fremantle joined next in 1994. It took them until their 9th season to return a positive win/loss ratio, and did not win a final until their 13th season, and to date, in 28 seasons, no premiership. Only 7 of those 28 seasons have shown positive win/loss ratios.

Port Adelaide were next up in 1997. They did better, making finals 3rd year, winning their first final in their 6th year and first flag in their 8th season, roughly similar to Adelaide and West Coast. But they were evolved from a strong traditional club.

Gold Coast entered in 2011. Their best season so far was their 4th season, 2014, when they had a 10-12 w/l ratio. Of some encouragement is their second best season with a 7-15 record was 2021. They played most of the season with no viable ruckman, and the first of their highest rated younger players in Miller and Weller have only just turned 25 this year, and there are many younger players rated above them, and some who are shaping strongly. Ballard, Bowes, Ainsworth, Powell, are 22-23yo. Rankine, King, Lukosius, Anderson, Rowell, Budarick, Hollands are all 21yo or under. And there are others and more to come in this year’s draft.

GWS Followed a better path than the Suns after coming into the competition in 2012, and made finals, and won one, in their 5th year. Could realistically have won a flag already in their first 10 seasons.

The AFL and Gold Coast have certainly made errors along the way, but it is not like all the decisions that turned out to be wrong were made by one real entity. For mine the Suns look on a much better track now, better administration, better facilities, better commitment to building culture. The success or otherwise of individual trades is not what clubs live or die by. Losing Greenwood was clearly by accidental design, he is not an important player in the scheme of things. You have to remember these players have contracts attached to them. Lyons clearly didn’t fit into their vision of how a midfield should operate and to be honest, I don’t think he would fit into mine either. They managed to unload the Brodie contract, albeit at a cost. They are obviously clearing the decks to put themselves in a strong position to retain as many of the gun youngsters as possible, you would have to think having learned lessons from the past when they were outbid for some of their gun youngsters because they were trapped in other contracts. The thing they need to do, and I think they will do, is if they lose say a Ben King, they will get big draft capital and also have a lot of cap space as a result. By bringing in a big free agent and using the draft picks and some more good offers, they should be able to quickly bring in 2, 3 or 4 quality players approximately 24-26yo range. At that point the whole world will likely change for the Suns.

I am bullish about the Suns in the medium term. I expect they will mature, further improve their list, and develop a better game plan, having proved at least in 2021 they can actually stick to a game plan. They will no doubt lose some gun youngsters but they should not fear that. They just need to convert them into some high quality mature footballers.

 

[PhatBoy]

Footy is one place where I think it is good to hate. And you are entitled to hate according to your own free will, it is important to acknowledge that.

But I think you are a bit harsh on the Suns in some respects here.

The Suns started with some big disadvantages, especially in terms of facilities. And they are still only just starting, they still have some of their initial intake playing for them. The club and the AFL has made plenty of errors along the way, I agree with that. But if you look at the 12 non-foundation clubs to join the VFL/AFL we can start to put the Suns start into some sort of perspective.

Richmond were a powerful, well supported club when they joined in 1908 and it wasn’t until their 12th season they returned their first positive win/loss ratio.

University entered in 1908 as well, worked their way up to a 10-8 record in just their 3rd season, but their best effort thereafter was 1-17 from 4 seasons and they were never to be seen again in the VFL.

Your club Hawthorn did not record their first positive W/L ratio until their 19th season. Their second one did not come until their 33rd season. Why they were even admitted to the VFL and why they were allowed to stay in the competition has to be cause for much greater scrutiny than anything the Suns should be facing now. nevertheless they became a strong club eventually.

Footscray/Western Bulldogs were also a very strong club when they entered the VFL in 1925, and they did better initially, but still did not play in their first final until their 14th season, and took until their 30th season to win a flag, and as matters stand, have only won 2 in 97 seasons in the competition.

North Melbourne had a few tribulations which weakened them immediately before they entered but were essentially a strong club with a strong following when entering the VFL in 1925. It was not until their 20th season they returned their first positive win/loss ratio. They made finals for the first time the following season. But it took until their 51st season to win a Premiership.

Brisbane Bears did not enjoy a positive win/loss ratio until their 10th season.

West Coast as we know were a virtual state side from the outset, but even they did not win a final until their 4th season in the competition.

Next up was Adelaide Crows, another virtual state side from the start. It took them 3 seasons to enjoy a positive win/loss ratio and win a final. But that was their only positive w/l ratio in their first 6 seasons.

Fremantle joined next in 1994. It took them until their 9th season to return a positive win/loss ratio, and did not win a final until their 13th season, and to date, in 28 seasons, no premiership. Only 7 of those 28 seasons have shown positive win/loss ratios.

Port Adelaide were next up in 1997. They did better, making finals 3rd year, winning their first final in their 6th year and first flag in their 8th season, roughly similar to Adelaide and West Coast. But they were evolved from a strong traditional club.

Gold Coast entered in 2011. Their best season so far was their 4th season, 2014, when they had a 10-12 w/l ratio. Of some encouragement is their second best season with a 7-15 record was 2021. They played most of the season with no viable ruckman, and the first of their highest rated younger players in Miller and Weller have only just turned 25 this year, and there are many younger players rated above them, and some who are shaping strongly. Ballard, Bowes, Ainsworth, Powell, are 22-23yo. Rankine, King, Lukosius, Anderson, Rowell, Budarick, Hollands are all 21yo or under. And there are others and more to come in this year’s draft.

GWS Followed a better path than the Suns after coming into the competition in 2012, and made finals, and won one, in their 5th year. Could realistically have won a flag already in their first 10 seasons.

The AFL and Gold Coast have certainly made errors along the way, but it is not like all the decisions that turned out to be wrong were made by one real entity. For mine the Suns look on a much better track now, better administration, better facilities, better commitment to building culture. The success or otherwise of individual trades is not what clubs live or die by. Losing Greenwood was clearly by accidental design, he is not an important player in the scheme of things. You have to remember these players have contracts attached to them. Lyons clearly didn’t fit into their vision of how a midfield should operate and to be honest, I don’t think he would fit into mine either. They managed to unload the Brodie contract, albeit at a cost. They are obviously clearing the decks to put themselves in a strong position to retain as many of the gun youngsters as possible, you would have to think having learned lessons from the past when they were outbid for some of their gun youngsters because they were trapped in other contracts. The thing they need to do, and I think they will do, is if they lose say a Ben King, they will get big draft capital and also have a lot of cap space as a result. By bringing in a big free agent and using the draft picks and some more good offers, they should be able to quickly bring in 2, 3 or 4 quality players approximately 24-26yo range. At that point the whole world will likely change for the Suns.

I am bullish about the Suns in the medium term. I expect they will mature, further improve their list, and develop a better game plan, having proved at least in 2021 they can actually stick to a game plan. They will no doubt lose some gun youngsters but they should not fear that. They just need to convert them into some high quality mature footballers.

This. Very well said.

Easily forgotten too that they make the finals in their fourth (?) season if Ablett doesn’t do his shoulder.

Not that I do hate them but I’d be far more inclined to hate Fremantle given that they’re in a bigger city, one with not just an Australian football history but a successful sporting culture in general, something Gold Coast has never had in any code, decent facilities, a ready made fan base looking for an alternative to the Eagles, and a few dozen AFL standard players at any given time who’d love to play for them given they are from that city.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

This. Very well said.

Easily forgotten too that they make the finals in their fourth (?) season if Ablett doesn’t do his shoulder.

Not that I do hate them but I’d be far more inclined to hate Fremantle given that they’re in a bigger city, one with not just an Australian football history but a successful sporting culture in general, something Gold Coast has never had in any code, decent facilities, a ready made fan base looking for an alternative to the Eagles, and a few dozen AFL standard players at any given time who’d love to play for them given they are from that city.

It is true they had a very real, though perhaps slim-ish chance to make the finals in 2014. Ablett had been in sensational form and opposition teams were having a lot of trouble holding him. Realistically to make finals in 2014 the Suns would have to have beaten Essendon late season(lost by 3.1 without Ablett) and won one other game they lost late season. They lost by 9 points to Port so Ablett could conceivably have made a difference there. It wasn’t just Ablett either, other key players like May and Dixon missed multiples games late season after Ablett was injured.

So they were tracking fine to that point. Got that bit of bad luck late season, then started getting some things wrong. Sacking McKenna was not a move that was obviously sound, he had them tracking ok and basically wasn’t given the chance to fail, a bit like Brett Ratten at Carlton. This may have undermined several players confidence in the club’s decision making and of course over the next 5 years we saw a huge exodus of O’Meara, May, Lynch, Dixon, Prestia, Ablett, McKenzie, Martin, Saad, Scrimshaw, and obviously a few things have gone seriously wrong one way and another with Bennell, Thompson, Kolodjashnij, Day, and latterly Witts, that I am not sure the club could have done much about.

They have better decision makers in place now and the club will have learned plenty from past errors. Getting players like Brandon Ellis, Greenwood and even Townsend in was good evidence of straight thinking imo, and is a bit similar to the Dees conscripting Cross, Vince, Lewis and others who were never likely to play in flags for Melbourne but could help lead the team in the right direction towards one. Sticking with Dew is another really good sign for them. His stocks were pretty unfashionable during 2021 so it would have been easy to sell out on him. But they are giving him a proper chance, so even if he doesn’t work out ultimately, other people at the cub won’t lose faith in the club.

Just learned 25yo Touk Miller has shunned free agency and re-signed for 5 years with the Suns. That is massive for the Suns when you consider players like Cripps and Grundy are holding their clubs to ransom for seven year deals. Miller has nailed his colours to the mast for the Suns and that is a hell of a coup for the club. You literally can’t buy players with those sort of values.

 

[WillHayward]

It is true they had a very real, though perhaps slim-ish chance to make the finals in 2014. Ablett had been in sensational form and opposition teams were having a lot of trouble holding him. Realistically to make finals in 2014 the Suns would have to have beaten Essendon late season(lost by 3.1 without Ablett) and won one other game they lost late season. They lost by 9 points to Port so Ablett could conceivably have made a difference there. It wasn’t just Ablett either, other key players like May and Dixon missed multiples games late season after Ablett was injured.

So they were tracking fine to that point. Got that bit of bad luck late season, then started getting some things wrong. Sacking McKenna was not a move that was obviously sound, he had them tracking ok and basically wasn’t given the chance to fail, a bit like Brett Ratten at Carlton. This may have undermined several players confidence in the club’s decision making and of course over the next 5 years we saw a huge exodus of O’Meara, May, Lynch, Dixon, Prestia, Ablett, McKenzie, Martin, Saad, Scrimshaw, and obviously a few things have gone seriously wrong one way and another with Bennell, Thompson, Kolodjashnij, Day, and latterly Witts, that I am not sure the club could have done much about.

They have better decision makers in place now and the club will have learned plenty from past errors. Getting players like Brandon Ellis, Greenwood and even Townsend in was good evidence of straight thinking imo, and is a bit similar to the Dees conscripting Cross, Vince, Lewis and others who were never likely to play in flags for Melbourne but could help lead the team in the right direction towards one. Sticking with Dew is another really good sign for them. His stocks were pretty unfashionable during 2021 so it would have been easy to sell out on him. But they are giving him a proper chance, so even if he doesn’t work out ultimately, other people at the cub won’t lose faith in the club.

Just learned 25yo Touk Miller has shunned free agency and re-signed for 5 years with the Suns. That is massive for the Suns when you consider players like Cripps and Grundy are holding their clubs to ransom for seven year deals. Miller has nailed his colours to the mast for the Suns and that is a hell of a coup for the club. You literally can’t buy players with those sort of values.

Sweet Jesus.

So are long deals good or bad?

Are you on meth?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Sweet Jesus.

So are long deals good or bad?

Are you on meth?

I can only guess at the point of your post but your reference to drug taking I take as more of an indicator as to how your mind works than mine.

My point with the Miller deal v the Grundy and Cripps deals is Miller will be locked in on big money only until age 30, which is incredibly beneficial for the Suns. They can then renegotiate with him at that point. I am sure there would be other clubs out there willing to contract him until he is 32 or older if they had known in advance he was gettable.

The Grundy and Cripps deals, the players are contracted until age 32. Obviously a lot of players get past their best at around age 30. Clubs will almost always prefer to have players sign long term deals until age 30 if they can manage it, rather than until age 32-33 or 35 as we have seen with Franklin or 34 as we have seen with Dangerfield. We have just seen the issues the past-it Franklin deal has caused for the Swans, where it was widely known that with a burgeoning list they had to lose at least 1-2 players because they are locked into the Franklin deal. Thus, Hewett and Dawson and Stephens being openly shopped.

So sure it is good to lock away your best players on long term deals when they approach free agency. But of those, the shorter 4 and 5 year deals tend to be of more benefit to the club than the 7-10 year deals we have seen.

 

[dopefish]

Fremantle joined next in 1994. It took them until their 9th season to return a positive win/loss ratio, and did not win a final until their 13th season, and to date, in 28 seasons, no premiership. Only 7 of those 28 seasons have shown positive win/loss ratios.

Heh

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

It is true they had a very real, though perhaps slim-ish chance to make the finals in 2014. Ablett had been in sensational form and opposition teams were having a lot of trouble holding him. Realistically to make finals in 2014 the Suns would have to have beaten Essendon late season(lost by 3.1 without Ablett) and won one other game they lost late season. They lost by 9 points to Port so Ablett could conceivably have made a difference there. It wasn’t just Ablett either, other key players like May and Dixon missed multiples games late season after Ablett was injured.

So they were tracking fine to that point. Got that bit of bad luck late season, then started getting some things wrong. Sacking McKenna was not a move that was obviously sound, he had them tracking ok and basically wasn’t given the chance to fail, a bit like Brett Ratten at Carlton. This may have undermined several players confidence in the club’s decision making and of course over the next 5 years we saw a huge exodus of O’Meara, May, Lynch, Dixon, Prestia, Ablett, McKenzie, Martin, Saad, Scrimshaw, and obviously a few things have gone seriously wrong one way and another with Bennell, Thompson, Kolodjashnij, Day, and latterly Witts, that I am not sure the club could have done much about.

They have better decision makers in place now and the club will have learned plenty from past errors. Getting players like Brandon Ellis, Greenwood and even Townsend in was good evidence of straight thinking imo, and is a bit similar to the Dees conscripting Cross, Vince, Lewis and others who were never likely to play in flags for Melbourne but could help lead the team in the right direction towards one. Sticking with Dew is another really good sign for them. His stocks were pretty unfashionable during 2021 so it would have been easy to sell out on him. But they are giving him a proper chance, so even if he doesn’t work out ultimately, other people at the cub won’t lose faith in the club.

Just learned 25yo Touk Miller has shunned free agency and re-signed for 5 years with the Suns. That is massive for the Suns when you consider players like Cripps and Grundy are holding their clubs to ransom for seven year deals. Miller has nailed his colours to the mast for the Suns and that is a hell of a coup for the club. You literally can’t buy players with those sort of values.

Are you a politician? This is some of the most creative (yet slightly delusional) spin I have seen.

If I honest, Im impressed. But Im not swayed by a bunch of what ifs.

Im just sick of them. Waste of space

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Are you a politician? This is some of the most creative (yet slightly delusional) spin I have seen.

If I honest, Im impressed. But Im not swayed by a bunch of what ifs.

Im just sick of them. Waste of space

So you hate the Suns because they are no good. Presumably means you will love them if they come good.

What is your outlook for them?

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

So you hate the Suns because they are no good. Presumably means you will love them if they come good.

Its more than just that and you know it, you quoted my reasons the other day

What is your outlook for them?

On field, grim. Aside from Touk, who is a freakin unicorn, their senior players are shit and their kids are just auditioning for the other 17 clubs.

At least 2 of Luko, Rankine, Anderson and King might all leave next year, for more picks. Leading to more talented kids wasting the early part of their careers. Leading to more losses with a young team. Leading to more concessions.

More of the same.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Its more than just that and you know it, you quoted my reasons the other day




On field, grim. Aside from Touk, who is a freakin unicorn, their senior players are sh*t and their kids are just auditioning for the other 17 clubs.

At least 2 of Luko, Rankine, Anderson and King might all leave next year, for more picks. Leading to more talented kids wasting the early part of their careers. Leading to more losses with a young team. Leading to more concessions.

More of the same.

How do you view John Kennedy Senior in terms of Hawthorn’s history? Or Graham Arthur? Or Jack Hale? Or Brendan Edwards? Or players like Col Austen who won a Brownlow but played without payment, because he played for the only club in the VFL that couldn’t afford to pay its players? Or the fact Hawthorn in 1922 while playing in the VFA were actually coached by a player who played for an opposing club, including him playing against the club of which he was coach, the Mayblooms? Or the fact that Hawthorn did not make finals until their 33rd season after entering the VFL? In fact, at that point, since their admittance to the VFA in 1914, they had played one single finals match in 43 seasons. They lost it, of course. Or the incompetent shambles in 1950 that saw Hawks go winless after having lost former Captain-Coach Alan Albiston and Brownlow Medallist Col Austen due to infighting?

Or the fact the Hawks had to be handed the richest recruiting zone on the planet by the VFL in the 1960’s in order to finally build a team that could thrive?

You might get my point. Clubs in their early years can run into headwinds. They can require league support. They can make diabolical errors. The Suns will eventually find their own equivalent of Austen, Kennedy Snr, Jack Hale, Brendan Edwards etc. People who will collectively decide that they want to help build the Suns first great teams. Perhaps the process has started already. Maybe the anti-Kennedy Commando Stuart Dew will be seen as the father of the club’s future successes, maybe the uber-loyal Touk Miller will be seen as a towering standard-bearer in the club’s history. I know if I was playing for them, I would struggle to look him in the eye and tell him I am leaving because homesick, more money, success is easier elsewhere, bigger crowds etc etc.

Give them a chance. They have a lot of very good young players which gives them real hope. They are better set up now, and if you look beyond the obvious you can see they are making better decisions which should help their retention. Perhaps the weaker minded will leave and the stronger minded will stay.

And they are doing a lot better than the ultimate competition-transplants-team-into-enemy-territory-and-fails-spectacularly story…..In 1912 The VFA decided it wanted a club to give it representation in the inner city to compete with the VFL. So Melbourne City FC was born.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melbourne_City_Football_Club_(VFA)#:~:text=For%20the%20A-League%20club%2C%20see%20Melbourne%20City%20FC.,home%20matches%20at%20the%20East%20Melbourne%20Cricket%20Ground

.

Playing out of the old East Melbourne Ground in the winter morning shadows of the MCG, City managed to navigate their way through two whole seasons without blotting their copybook with a win. They were promptly disbanded. This created the opening for your beloved Hawks to enter the VFA in 1914….it is strange how the world turns.

Hate Richmond for having a 100% finals record against you.

Hate Melbourne for their supporters being posh dandies.

Hate Collingwood because it is an obligation for all non-Collingwood supporters to do so.

Hate Carlton for being a salary cap cheating, wealth connected entitled club playing in a jumper that looks like a designer label ripoff.

Hate Eagles for being a whiteboard-conceived club started by a private company.

But give the poor young Suns a chance to at least give you a good reason to hate them by being successful.

 

[PhatBoy]

How do you view John Kennedy Senior in terms of Hawthorn’s history? Or Graham Arthur? Or Jack Hale? Or Brendan Edwards? Or players like Col Austen who won a Brownlow but played without payment, because he played for the only club in the VFL that couldn’t afford to pay its players? Or the fact Hawthorn in 1922 while playing in the VFA were actually coached by a player who played for an opposing club, including him playing against the club of which he was coach, the Mayblooms? Or the fact that Hawthorn did not make finals until their 33rd season after entering the VFL? In fact, at that point, since their admittance to the VFA in 1914, they had played one single finals match in 43 seasons. They lost it, of course. Or the incompetent shambles in 1950 that saw Hawks go winless after having lost former Captain-Coach Alan Albiston and Brownlow Medallist Col Austen due to infighting?

Or the fact the Hawks had to be handed to richest recruiting zone on the planet by the VFL in the 1960’s in order to finally build a team that could thrive?

You might get my point. Clubs in their early years can run into headwinds. They can require league support. They can make diabolical errors. The Suns will eventually find their own equivalent of Austen, Kennedy Snr, Jack Hale, Brendan Edwards etc. People who will collectively decide that they want to help build the Suns first great teams. Perhaps the process has started already. Maybe the anti-Kennedy Commando Stuart Dew will be seen as the father of the club’s future successes, maybe the uber-loyal Touk Miller will be seen as a towering standard-bearer in the club’s history. I know if I was playing for them, I would struggle to look him in the eye and tell him I am leaving because homesick, more money, success is easier elsewhere, bigger crowds etc etc.

Give them a chance. They have a lot of very good young players which gives them real hope. They are better set up now, and if you look beyond the obvious you can see they are making better decisions which should help their retention. Perhaps the weaker minded will leave and the stronger minded will stay.

And they are doing a lot better than the ultimate competition-transplants-team-into-enemy-territory-and-fails-spectacularly story…..In 1912 The VFA decided it wanted a club to give it representation in the inner city to compete with the VFL. So Melbourne City FC was born.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melbourne_City_Football_Club_(VFA)#:~:text=For%20the%20A-League%20club%2C%20see%20Melbourne%20City%20FC.,home%20matches%20at%20the%20East%20Melbourne%20Cricket%20Ground

.

Playing out of the old East Melbourne Ground in the winter morning shadows of the MCG, City managed to navigate their way through two whole seasons without blotting their copybook with a win. They were promptly disbanded. This created the opening for your beloved Hawks to enter the VFA in 1914….it is strange how the world turns.

Hate Richmond for having a 100% finals record against you.

Hate Melbourne for their supporters being posh dandies.

Hate Collingwood because it is an obligation for all non-Collingwood supporters to do so.

Hate Carlton for being a salary cap cheating, wealth connected entitled club playing in a jumper that looks like a designer label ripoff.

Hate Eagles for being a whiteboard-conceived club started by a private company.

But give the poor young Suns a chance to at least give you a good reason to hate them by being successful.

I’m enjoying a worrying amount of your posts lately and frankly it’s starting to scare me

 

[Milanista28]

Why is Essendon winning the poll? I like them.

 

[STPer18]

Why is Essendon winning the poll? I like them.

I'm just shocked we're above Carlton. If the day ever comes that they actually start winning games of football again I imagine that'll quickly change though.

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

How do you view John Kennedy Senior in terms of Hawthorn’s history? Or Graham Arthur? Or Jack Hale? Or Brendan Edwards? Or players like Col Austen who won a Brownlow but played without payment, because he played for the only club in the VFL that couldn’t afford to pay its players? Or the fact Hawthorn in 1922 while playing in the VFA were actually coached by a player who played for an opposing club, including him playing against the club of which he was coach, the Mayblooms? Or the fact that Hawthorn did not make finals until their 33rd season after entering the VFL? In fact, at that point, since their admittance to the VFA in 1914, they had played one single finals match in 43 seasons. They lost it, of course. Or the incompetent shambles in 1950 that saw Hawks go winless after having lost former Captain-Coach Alan Albiston and Brownlow Medallist Col Austen due to infighting?

Or the fact the Hawks had to be handed to richest recruiting zone on the planet by the VFL in the 1960’s in order to finally build a team that could thrive?

You might get my point. Clubs in their early years can run into headwinds. They can require league support. They can make diabolical errors. The Suns will eventually find their own equivalent of Austen, Kennedy Snr, Jack Hale, Brendan Edwards etc. People who will collectively decide that they want to help build the Suns first great teams. Perhaps the process has started already. Maybe the anti-Kennedy Commando Stuart Dew will be seen as the father of the club’s future successes, maybe the uber-loyal Touk Miller will be seen as a towering standard-bearer in the club’s history. I know if I was playing for them, I would struggle to look him in the eye and tell him I am leaving because homesick, more money, success is easier elsewhere, bigger crowds etc etc.

Give them a chance. They have a lot of very good young players which gives them real hope. They are better set up now, and if you look beyond the obvious you can see they are making better decisions which should help their retention. Perhaps the weaker minded will leave and the stronger minded will stay.

And they are doing a lot better than the ultimate competition-transplants-team-into-enemy-territory-and-fails-spectacularly story…..In 1912 The VFA decided it wanted a club to give it representation in the inner city to compete with the VFL. So Melbourne City FC was born.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melbourne_City_Football_Club_(VFA)#:~:text=For%20the%20A-League%20club%2C%20see%20Melbourne%20City%20FC.,home%20matches%20at%20the%20East%20Melbourne%20Cricket%20Ground

.

Playing out of the old East Melbourne Ground in the winter morning shadows of the MCG, City managed to navigate their way through two whole seasons without blotting their copybook with a win. They were promptly disbanded. This created the opening for your beloved Hawks to enter the VFA in 1914….it is strange how the world turns.

Hate Richmond for having a 100% finals record against you.

Hate Melbourne for their supporters being posh dandies.

Hate Collingwood because it is an obligation for all non-Collingwood supporters to do so.

Hate Carlton for being a salary cap cheating, wealth connected entitled club playing in a jumper that looks like a designer label ripoff.

Hate Eagles for being a whiteboard-conceived club started by a private company.

But give the poor young Suns a chance to at least give you a good reason to hate them by being successful.

God damn dude you are like a dog with a bone!

Thanks for the history lesson - I mean it - but Im not sure those examples are relevant in a modern league. I think the only pertinent comparison you can make is with GWS. They took their advantages and used them well. They have established a culture and an identity and actually had some successful seasons. They have decent players asking to go there and decent players wanting to stay. GC have been around longer and have none of this.

My kids are in prep and Grade 2 and there are a few giants supporters among them, not a single Suns fan though.

Im sorry I dont have more to offer after you have gone to such effort (I particularly liked when you lectured me on who I should like and dislike).

We can revisit this in 12 months after King and Luko have left and the GC have another priority pick after another 4 win season. Maybe after their 4th chance will turn it around?

I might be in the wrong thread, I dont hate them per se, a bit like I dont hate a fly stuck in the car. Im just sick of them and wish they would **** off.

 

[My Tilly]

Wow! Second most hated club in the comp.
I have to admit, the way our coach has carried on in recent times, it's put off a lot of our own supporters too.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

God damn dude you are like a dog with a bone!

Thanks for the history lesson - I mean it - but Im not sure those examples are relevant in a modern league. I think the only pertinent comparison you can make is with GWS. They took their advantages and used them well. They have established a culture and an identity and actually had some successful seasons. They have decent players asking to go there and decent players wanting to stay. GC have been around longer and have none of this.

My kids are in prep and Grade 2 and there are a few giants supporters among them, not a single Suns fan though.

Im sorry I dont have more to offer after you have gone to such effort (I particularly liked when you lectured me on who I should like and dislike).

We can revisit this in 12 months after King and Luko have left and the GC have another priority pick after another 4 win season. Maybe after their 4th chance will turn it around?

I might be in the wrong thread, I dont hate them per se, a bit like I dont hate a fly stuck in the car. Im just sick of them and wish they would fu** off.

That wasn’t a lecture, just merely some constructive suggestions for you, to help you to hate better.

The Suns will get their share of supporters when they get a decent team together and start playing in big finals.

I think if teams extract gun youngsters out of the Suns from now on, they are going to be made to pay through the nostrils in salary + players or picks.

Comparing the Suns progress with GWS may or may not be fair(GWS probably had greater advantages but also made better decisions.). Even if it was a fair comparison, it is not a reliable way to judge them, as you are comparing with a sample of one. For all we know if the AFL started 50 new teams in similar circumstances it may have been the case GWS did best in their first 10 years and Suns did second best. Unlikely, but possible,

The final thing I would say is wouldn’t it be a shame to crash your car attempting to eject a buzzing fly if it turned out it was about to fly out the window of its own accord?

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

It's a tough one but Geelong ,Essendon and Carlton for all their cheating throughout the years.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Wow! Second most hated club in the comp.
I have to admit, the way our coach has carried on in recent times, it's put off a lot of our own supporters too.

We also play a dreary, passionless brand

 

[Gavin Excell]

This. Very well said.

Easily forgotten too that they make the finals in their fourth (?) season if Ablett doesn’t do his shoulder.

Not that I do hate them but I’d be far more inclined to hate Fremantle given that they’re in a bigger city, one with not just an Australian football history but a successful sporting culture in general, something Gold Coast has never had in any code, decent facilities, a ready made fan base looking for an alternative to the Eagles, and a few dozen AFL standard players at any given time who’d love to play for them given they are from that city.

Fair point on Freo
They really should have more runs on the board given their position

 

[windyhill]

It's a tough one but Geelong ,Essendon and Carlton for all their cheating throughout the years.

Greame Richmond likes this !

 

[Havoc]

Fair point on Freo
They really should have more runs on the board given their position

GWS.. 5 finals series, 7 wins and 6 losses.
Freo.. 7 finals series, 6 wins and 9 losses.

GWS have a greater overall win percentage than Fremantle too... while stats show Fremantle is the second least successful club overall, with Gold Coast obviously being the least successful.

 

[Gavin Excell]

GWS.. 5 finals series, 7 wins and 6 losses.
Freo.. 7 finals series, 6 wins and 9 losses.

GWS have a greater overall win percentage than Fremantle too... while stats show Fremantle is the second least successful club overall, with Gold Coast obviously being the least successful.

And one GF each
I'm not familiar with Freos start up. Were they afforded same concessions as GWS

 

[dopefish]

And one GF each

The 2013 granny - I've never been so scared in my life.