Which team out of Adelaide, North and Hawthorn has the better youth? Part 2

[Makeshift Park]

But when those wins inevitably don't come, will Clarko need to take another break?

I imagine that being publicly accused of gross human right abuses is a bit more difficult on ones mental health than losing a few games of footy.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Maybe we'll ask for one of the draft picks Hawthorn are going to lose for their shoddy administration and handling of the 'issues' in recent years?

Don't think there will be much stress since we were actively trying to trade out of the first round of next year's draft.

And there's also the factor that it won't happen anyway.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

But when those wins inevitably don't come, will Clarko need to take another break?

Another opportunity for Cl$$ko to get another pay day?

 

[LoBu]

Youngest list in the comp wins 7 and could’ve easily won 10, with every man and their dog able to see that there was a clear gap to the bottom 2.

Only for the second half of the year.

Hawthorn is unfortunately looking like a middling team. Without the talent to beat the good teams, only if Mitchell can execute an exceptional game plan and coaching will they have any chance of the top 8, most likely will be 9th for many years.

The attitude that 'Hawthorn will always come good' is exactly the attitude that Carlton had for the last 20 years, it doesn't work in an era of drafts and expansion clubs.

The reality is that Hawthorn will have to outperform the talent they have to have any chance of winning more than 12 games a year, and that except for Day and Watson, most of the best players in this team have already hit their peaks - and that was only enough to distance Hawthorn from the bottom 2.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Only for the second half of the year.

Hawthorn is unfortunately looking like a middling team. Without the talent to beat the good teams, only if Mitchell can execute an exceptional game plan and coaching will they have any chance of the top 8, most likely will be 9th for many years.

The attitude that 'Hawthorn will always come good' is exactly the attitude that Carlton had for the last 20 years, it doesn't work in an era of drafts and expansion clubs.

The reality is that Hawthorn will have to outperform the talent they have to have any chance of winning more than 12 games a year, and that except for Day and Watson, most of the best players in this team have already hit their peaks - and that was only enough to distance Hawthorn from the bottom 2.

Oh this is bad

So very, very bad

Adelaide are f*** if this is how you view ceilings on talent

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Only for the second half of the year.

Hawthorn is unfortunately looking like a middling team. Without the talent to beat the good teams, only if Mitchell can execute an exceptional game plan and coaching will they have any chance of the top 8, most likely will be 9th for many years.

The attitude that 'Hawthorn will always come good' is exactly the attitude that Carlton had for the last 20 years, it doesn't work in an era of drafts and expansion clubs.

The reality is that Hawthorn will have to outperform the talent they have to have any chance of winning more than 12 games a year, and that except for Day and Watson, most of the best players in this team have already hit their peaks - and that was only enough to distance Hawthorn from the bottom 2.

Youngest list in the comp is middling out.

And I thought Chadwiko had the worst takes in here.

 

[The acurate one]

Well Norf got gifted 71 first rounders recently, so one would be well within their rights to say, Norf!
Am I doing it right

 

[LoBu]

Youngest list in the comp is middling out.

And I thought Chadwiko had the worst takes in here.

Will middle out, get it right. Not enough talent.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Will middle out, get it right. Not enough talent.

Yeah, still clueless about our list if you think all of our best talents have peaked.

Your post is idiotic, and that’s putting it nicely.

 

[LoBu]

Oh this is bad

So very, very bad

Adelaide are f*** if this is how you view ceilings on talent

The delusion of being so bad last year and claiming it to be a good year is amusing.

 

[LoBu]

Yeah, still clueless about our list if you think all of our best talents have peaked.

Your post is idiotic, and that’s putting it nicely.

We all know you don't provide substance to your posts, no surprise here.

 

[The acurate one]

Only for the second half of the year.

Hawthorn is unfortunately looking like a middling team. Without the talent to beat the good teams, only if Mitchell can execute an exceptional game plan and coaching will they have any chance of the top 8, most likely will be 9th for many years.

The attitude that 'Hawthorn will always come good' is exactly the attitude that Carlton had for the last 20 years, it doesn't work in an era of drafts and expansion clubs.

The reality is that Hawthorn will have to outperform the talent they have to have any chance of winning more than 12 games a year, and that except for Day and Watson, most of the best players in this team have already hit their peaks - and that was only enough to distance Hawthorn from the bottom 2.

Yep and they'll have to do it this time around without AFL assistance. That is what set up their successful period

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

We all know you don't provide substance to your posts, no surprise here.

You're the one making baseless claims, so try to back them up.

I’ll go easy and name just a few players, and you tell me which of them have peaked?

Newcombe?
Day?
Ward?
MacKenzie?
Jiath?
Ramsden?
C.MacDonald?
Reeves?
Weddle?
Ginnivan?

 

[Guardian Hawk]

Only for the second half of the year.

Hawthorn is unfortunately looking like a middling team. Without the talent to beat the good teams, only if Mitchell can execute an exceptional game plan and coaching will they have any chance of the top 8, most likely will be 9th for many years.

The attitude that 'Hawthorn will always come good' is exactly the attitude that Carlton had for the last 20 years, it doesn't work in an era of drafts and expansion clubs.

The reality is that Hawthorn will have to outperform the talent they have to have any chance of winning more than 12 games a year, and that except for Day and Watson, most of the best players in this team have already hit their peaks - and that was only enough to distance Hawthorn from the bottom 2.

I'm not sure I fully understand the bolded parts. What is this based on? It seems a very subjective analysis without anything to back it up. IN terms of not having the talent to beat good teams - we are near ground zero in the rebuild and beat both Grand finallists. Clearly there is a capability to do so - it just needs to be much more consistent that it is now as we progress.

Why have you concluded that Hawthorn need to 'outperform the talent we have' and aside from Day and Watson, everyone has hit their peak? What tells you this? Aside from the fact that the best players at all clubs are closer to their peak (that's why they are the best players), what has told you that everyone is already at their peak?

Last season, Josh Ward was a second year player whose role and performances grew throughout the year. What's to say he will not be one of our better players or that he is at his peak? Same goes for Connor McDonald - who had some brilliant games against good opposition (e.g. Brisbane) but is still a second year player who is not the finished product. Similar story for Cam McKenzie - showed moments of polish and was a highly rated draft pick that has only had one season. What about Josh Weddle? Had some great games and showed a lot of dash But is still a first year player. Could become of one of our best players and clearly not at his peak.
Mitch Lewis is near his peak but has not managed any continuity, having not yet played 15 games in any season of his career. He could contribute further simply be remaining on the park. Jiath has shown signs ion the past of being one of our best players but has had an injury interrupted 18 months. Could he not recapture his past form?

The list goes on.

Truth is, you (nor we) have any idea yet what the ceiling is for any of those players, let alone for the whole team.

Edit: Beaten by SYL

 

[LoBu]

I'm not sure I fully understand the bolded parts. What is this based on? It seems a very subjective analysis without anything to back it up. IN terms of not having the talent to beat good teams - we are near ground zero in the rebuild and beat both Grand finallists. Clearly there is a capability to do so - it just needs to be much more consistent that it is now as we progress.

Why have you concluded that Hawthorn need to 'outperform the talent we have' and aside from Day and Watson, everyone has hit their peak? What tells you this? Aside from the fact that the best players at all clubs are closer to their peak (that's why they are the best players), what has told you that everyone is already at their peak?

Last season, Josh Ward was a second year player whose role and performances grew throughout the year. What's to say he will not be one of our better players or that he is at his peak? Same goes for Connor McDonald - who had some brilliant games against good opposition (e.g. Brisbane) but is still a second year player who is not the finished product. Similar story for Cam McKenzie - showed moments of polish and was a highly rated draft pick that has only had one season. What about Josh Weddle? Had some great games and showed a lot of dash But is still a first year player. Could become of one of our best players and clearly not at his peak.
Mitch Lewis is near his peak but has not managed any continuity, having not yet played 15 games in any season of his career. He could contribute further simply be remaining on the park. Jiath has shown signs ion the past of being one of our best players but has had an injury interrupted 18 months. Could he not recapture his past form?

The list goes on.

Trut is, you (nor we) have any idea yet what the ceiling is for any of those players, let alone for the whole team.

Good post, and yes there are a couple more, Weddle had a great year for a first year player, but my take is that without high end picks it's really hard to compete against those teams around you who do have a lot of high end picks.

The thinking is that the approach of mature aged drafting doesn't suit a rebuild, and rebuilding too quickly or without bottoming out doesn't allow for the talent accumulation. The rate of increased talent is what you want, can Newcombe continue to improve or is he right now the player he will always be?

Yep, it just an opinion.

 

[Makeshift Park]

Only for the second half of the year.

Hawthorn is unfortunately looking like a middling team. Without the talent to beat the good teams, only if Mitchell can execute an exceptional game plan and coaching will they have any chance of the top 8, most likely will be 9th for many years.

The attitude that 'Hawthorn will always come good' is exactly the attitude that Carlton had for the last 20 years, it doesn't work in an era of drafts and expansion clubs.

The reality is that Hawthorn will have to outperform the talent they have to have any chance of winning more than 12 games a year, and that except for Day and Watson, most of the best players in this team have already hit their peaks - and that was only enough to distance Hawthorn from the bottom 2.

But also - given we're in the youth thread - its worth pointing out how much they rely on Sicily.

He missed 4 games this year, and accordingly the Hawks lost all four. Three of those were 50pt+ blowouts.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

You're the one making baseless claims, so try to back them up.

I’ll go easy and name just a few players, and you tell me which of them have peaked?

Newcombe?
Day?
Ward?
MacKenzie?
Jiath?
Ramsden?
C.MacDonald?
Reeves?
Weddle?
Ginnivan?

Come on LoBu where’s your substance?

 

[BIGHAWK23]

The delusion of being so bad last year and claiming it to be a good year is amusing.

The delusion of just being a middling team last year and expecting just to rise because of?

Chris Burgess and some good time trials?

Beating Port twice and Brisbane at Adelaide?

Sure there is natural progression, but to have a list that is older than Hawthorns, but claim it has more scope to grow while disregarding the abilities of Hawthorns to is just willfully biased and ignorant

Attending CBA's with Laird and Crouch (both of which were top 3 last year in CBA attendances) does not exactly paint a picture of "growth"

Adelaide will surely improve, but you can't guarantee it, same as saying "most Hawthorn players have hit their ceiling"

Its a guess

 

[Engimal v3]

Only for the second half of the year.

Hawthorn is unfortunately looking like a middling team. Without the talent to beat the good teams, only if Mitchell can execute an exceptional game plan and coaching will they have any chance of the top 8, most likely will be 9th for many years.

The attitude that 'Hawthorn will always come good' is exactly the attitude that Carlton had for the last 20 years, it doesn't work in an era of drafts and expansion clubs.

The reality is that Hawthorn will have to outperform the talent they have to have any chance of winning more than 12 games a year, and that except for Day and Watson, most of the best players in this team have already hit their peaks - and that was only enough to distance Hawthorn from the bottom 2.

Yep, rooted for the foreseeable future. Luckily the Hawks won a few flags which will keep the fans going for a while.

 

[LoBu]

Come on LoBu where’s your substance?

Peaked or low in talent.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Peaked or low in talent.

So name them then?
Come on now, don’t be shy to carry this bad take through to completion.

 

[LoBu]

So name them then?
Come on now, don’t be shy to carry this bad take through to completion.

It's embarrassing you put Ramsdem on the list, and Ginnevan. Hard to take you seriously.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

It's embarrassing you put Ramsdem on the list, and Ginnevan. Hard to take you seriously.

Oh, so the 203cm 20yr old has hit his peak, has he?
And Ginnivan won’t improve past 20?

Keep going.

 

[Sixpence]

can Newcombe continue to improve or is he right now the player he will always be?

Yeh, because who improves after they've turned 22 right? FMD.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Yeh, because who improves after they've turned 22 right? FMD.

Old mates outed himself here big time.