Which team out of Adelaide, North and Hawthorn has the better youth? Part 2

[Jeremias]

Your argument is irrelevant to potential and talent.

You’re arguing production.

Apples and bananas.

Hold on, you said this…

“Players will be put into a potential category, S Grade, A Grade, B Grade, C Grade, D Grade and F Grade.

They will then have a grade placed next to them based off of production and proven results/performance.

S Grade

Mitch Lewis - A

Let me put it down for you again…

They will then have a grade placed next to them based off of production and proven results/performance.

Tell me again how you’re not talking about “production”.

You are right though. Bananas, indeed.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Hold on, you said this…



Let me put it down for you again…



Tell me again how you’re not talking about “production”.

You are right though. Bananas, indeed.

Lewis has shown his talent to an A Grade level despite the lack of continuity. Which was the production, the potential and talent is superstar capacity. They’re different ratings, and points.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Apparently the hawks put a strong contract offer infront of comben (they were far from alone).

Looks like he's developing into a really good player. I'd love for him to join us.

 

[Jeremias]

Lewis has shown his talent to an A Grade level despite the lack of continuity. Which was the production, the potential and talent is superstar capacity. They’re different ratings, and points.

Right, so you're only talking about production when you're talking about production. Got it.

 

[Sphynx]

You’re right, I misread.

Please let me correct myself…

Mitch Lewis a potential superstar?

Hope that one doesn’t upset you this time.

I think I double took more with the Josh Ward A grade classification personally.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Right, so you're only talking about production when you're talking about production. Got it.

The profile is based off production and potential. His potential and talent is S, and he is a very good key forward, he showed that last year. The context of potential was used with production.

It isn’t hard to see that the idea is profiling talent but with production used as a tool to back up that and show where he’s been so far.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

I think I double took more with the Josh Ward A grade classification personally.

Josh Ward has the talent to be an A Grade player. Not entirely an out of the box suggestion.

 

[Jeremias]

The profile is based off production and potential. His potential and talent is S, and he is a very good key forward, he showed that last year. The context of potential was used with production.

It isn’t hard to see that the idea is profiling talent but with production used as a tool to back up that and show where he’s been so far.

Whichever way you look at it, I reckon claiming Mitchell Lewis is a potential superstar is wildly optimistic.

It isn't hard to see that pushing back on this isn't an unreasonable point of view, though perhaps we have very different thoughts on what a superstar actually is.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Whichever way you look at it, I reckon claiming Mitchell Lewis is a potential superstar is wildly optimistic.

It isn't hard to see that pushing back on this isn't an unreasonable point of view, though perhaps we have very different thoughts on what a superstar actually is.

Superstars for me are the best few in their position or have the potential to be one of the best in the competition overall.

Lewis has that capacity to be one of the best in his position.

 

[the big lebowski]

It’s amazing the Mitch Lewis. He’s a gun no doubt about that.

This thread started with Nick larkey

20

Nick Larkey

Age

26

Ht

198cm

Wt

96kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

8.5

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.9

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.5

3star

G

1.4

5star

D

7.0

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.0

2star

T

1.0

2star

G

1.0

4star

D

8.8

3star

K

4.2

2star

HB

4.6

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.4

4star

G

0.8

4star

vs Mitch Lewis and arguing about average goals per game vs total goals per game.

Here we are 4 years later and it’s exactly the same with Lewis. Never kicked more goals than larkey in a season, even the season where he was clearly better than larkey (2022?).

If his body does a 180 then he could be a 50-70 goal kicker. Massive doubts on that though given he has literally never been able to play a full season of afl football.

 

[nelk boys]

Superstars for me are the best few in their position or have the potential to be one of the best in the competition overall.

Lewis has that capacity to be one of the best in his position.

Superstars play at a level consistently above all others. This isn't built over 15 game seasons.

Until Lewis can play consistently he is not in this conversation.

Nobody names players 'Superstars' because they have the potential. It needs to be earned.

 

[Jeremias]

Superstars for me are the best few in their position or have the potential to be one of the best in the competition overall.

Lewis has that capacity to be one of the best in his position.

Fantastic.

I hope Mitch Lewis can stay injury free in 2025.
If he does he might finally be able to finish in the top 25 for goals in a season for the first time in his career.

Reality is, whilst he might have said “capacity”, so too do many others.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Superstars play at a level consistently above all others. This isn't built over 15 game seasons.

Until Lewis can play consistently he is not in this conversation.

Nobody names players 'Superstars' because they have the potential. It needs to be earned.

Again, that’s production. He hasn’t done it yet, that isn’t to say he isn’t capable of it. Potential v production. His production has been good without being great because of what you’re saying, his potential doesn’t change.

The whole point of this profile was to talk about talent and potential.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Fantastic.

I hope Mitch Lewis can stay injury free in 2025.
If he does he might finally be able to finish in the top 25 for goals in a season for the first time in his career.

Reality is, whilst he might have said “capacity”, so too do many others.

He was top 25 last year fyi, despite missing games and playing injured and was 8th for average goals.

I hope he can stay injury free as he is capable of kicking 50+ goals and being a Coleman contender. I hope his knee injury isn’t going to make a massive impact either negatively.

The reality is, you have missed my point, and arguing another. The profile was of talent and potential. There are a bunch of players capable of it and that doesn’t change anything.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

It’s amazing the Mitch Lewis. He’s a gun no doubt about that.

This thread started with Nick larkey vs Mitch Lewis and arguing about average goals per game vs total goals per game.

Here we are 4 years later and it’s exactly the same with Lewis. Never kicked more goals than larkey in a season, even the season where he was clearly better than larkey (2022?).

If his body does a 180 then he could be a 50-70 goal kicker. Massive doubts on that though given he has literally never been able to play a full season of afl football.

Again the discussion is about talent, but Larkey is a gun. No doubt.

Lewis needs to build a strong foundation on the way home to finals this year of 9 games or so and to perform well, go into the off-season and build for a full 2025. If Hawthorn make finals, make an impact and be fit.

He has been quite unlucky, shoulder reconstructions and knee injuries are majorly freak incidents, hope he isn’t ruined by injury as many other good talents have been.

 

[Jeremias]

He was top 25 last year fyi, despite missing games and playing injured and was 8th for average goals.

You’re right. Equal 25th with a number of others.

Wonder if you’d judge Todd Marshall as favourably as you have Mitch Lewis.

I hope he can stay injury free as he is capable of kicking 50+ goals and being a Coleman contender. I hope his knee injury isn’t going to make a massive impact either negatively.

I think we all hope he can stay injury free.

Let’s see if he can get to Darcy Fogarty level before we start talking about Coleman contention.

The reality is, you have missed my point, and arguing another. The profile was of talent and potential. There are a bunch of players capable of it and that doesn’t change anything.

I haven’t missed your point. I just think it’s a ridiculous one.

Lots of players have potential, whilst some can’t look past their club of support.

I get it, we all have our blind spots. I once thought Paddy Dow had it in him to become a superstar.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

You’re right. Equal 25th with a number of others.

Wonder if you’d judge Todd Marshall as favourably as you have Mitch Lewis.



I think we all hope he can stay injury free.

Let’s see if he can get to Darcy Fogarty level before we start talking about Coleman contention.



I haven’t missed your point. I just think it’s a ridiculous one.

Lots of players have potential, whilst some can’t look past their club of support.

I get it, we all have our blind spots. I once thought Paddy Dow had it in him to become a superstar.

Again production is a portion but not a majority of the point.

Yes I think we all do.
He’s a better player than Fogarty.

If you think Paddy Dow had superstar potential maybe you need to focus on that and how that sounds.

But no you’re missing the point because players can have talent and not show anything, some players have the talent and prove it correct by playing at that level. He is one inbetween. Has shown the talent but hasn’t put it all together, hence talking about his potential as an S, where he’s played good and shown his potential just not consistently to say he’s at that point yet.

 

[Disco Dew]

I’ve seen the words production, potential and talent so many times itt they’ve lost all meaning to me now

 

[Dewyyyyy]

I’ve seen the words production, potential and talent so many times itt they’ve lost all meaning to me now

Womp womp

 

[Jeremias]

He’s a better player than Fogarty.

Not based on production he isn’t. But if you don’t have production you have potential, right?

If you think Paddy Dow had superstar potential maybe you need to focus on that and how that sounds.

Careful now, I haven’t even bothered to pull you up on your Josh Ward rating.

But no you’re missing the point because players can have talent and not show anything, some players have the talent and prove it correct by playing at that level. He is one inbetween. Has shown the talent but hasn’t put it all together, hence talking about his potential as an S, where he’s played good and shown his potential just not consistently to say he’s at that point yet.

Believe it or not, all players have talent.

The actual point is he plays for Hawthorn and thus you view him with a level of bias that most others are able to bypass.

He’s a good footballer. How about we cool the jets on everything else until he actually performs consistently?

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Not based on production he isn’t. But if you don’t have production you have potential, right?



Careful now, I haven’t even bothered to pull you up on your Josh Ward rating.



Believe it or not, all players have talent.

The actual point is he plays for Hawthorn and thus you view him with a level of bias that most others are able to bypass.

He’s a good footballer. How about we cool the jets on everything else until he actually performs consistently?

Performed better than Fogarty last year (production) although has missed a chunk of 2024. The main point would be he is a better talent.

Josh Ward is a much more talented footballer than Dow is, if you can’t see that then I’m not sure you should bother.

All players have talent and it’s a spectrum of where that talent sits, ceiling v floor and an average.

Screaming bias because you aren’t getting the point is quite funny.

“cool the jets” funny.

Mitch Lewis has the potential and talent to be a top level key forward, hence the rating, and has proved so far that talent to be right. His continuity, consistency and long term production is yet to be seen and yet to be done, which is why it isn’t completely “he is” and why it’s “he could be”. Not entirely hard to see. You’re fighting shadows.

 

[LoBu]

Production v potential & talent

Players will be put into a potential category, S Grade, A Grade, B Grade, C Grade, D Grade and F Grade.

They will then have a grade placed next to them based off of production and proven results/performance.

S - superstar

A - very good

B - good player

C - a good role player

D - depth

F - delist or won’t make it

E - yet to debut



This will be for players 26 and under.



S Grade

Will Day - A

Mitch Lewis - A

Jai Newcombe - A

Josh Weddle - B

Dylan Moore - A



A Grade

Josh Ward - B-

Connor MacDonald - B+

Nick Watson - B-

Cam MacKenzie - B-

Jack Scrimshaw - B+

Lloyd Meek - B+

Denver Grainger-Barras - D

Blake Hardwick - A

Changkuoth Jiath - B-

Calsher Dear - C+

Massimo D’Ambrosio - B+


B Grade

Jack Ginnivan - B+

James Worpel - B+

James Blanck - C+



C Grade

Conor Nash - C+

Ned Reeves - C+

Jai Serong - D

Finn Maginness - C

Bailey MacDonald - F

Seamus Mitchell - D

Max Ramsden - D

Henry Hustwaite - D



D Grade

Sam Butler - F

Harry Morrison - C



E Grade

Jack O’Sullivan - E

Clay Tucker - E

Joshua Bennetts - E

Bodie Ryan - E

Jasper Scaife - E

Will McCabe - E



F Grade

Cooper Stephens - F

Obviously we have a large degree of opinion on these potential levels, and you obviously watch a lot more hawks than me.

I'd say typically the superstar list of the best teams is only 2-3 players, and the A graders should make any team.

The fact that you have no superstars at current production means that it's all up in the air, I could be right, you could be right.

16 players A grade or above may be considered generous though.

 

[Jeremias]

Performed better than Fogarty last year (production) although has missed a chunk of 2024. The main point would be he is a better talent.

Is he?

Based on anything other than the vibe?

Josh Ward is a much more talented footballer than Dow is, if you can’t see that then I’m not sure you should bother.

At this point you’ve just got to shake your head and laugh.

I wasn’t comparing the two as talents.

Screaming bias because you aren’t getting the point is quite funny.

Kind of ironic from someone who thought I was comparing Dow to Ward, no?

And not screaming. Laughing.

You’re fighting shadows.

I’m not the one leaning into intangibles like potential and, well, vibe.

But then again I’m not the Hawthorn supporter here so whether he does or he doesn’t isn’t of huge consequence.

I get you’re hopeful. Sometimes as fans hope is all we have.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Obviously we have a large degree of opinion on these potential levels, and you obviously watch a lot more hawks than me.

I'd say typically the superstar list of the best teams is only 2-3 players, and the A graders should make any team.

The fact that you have no superstars at current production means that it's all up in the air, I could be right, you could be right.

16 players A grade or above may be considered generous though.

I would say no one out of these three sides have superstar production YET, there’s a few who are close however.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Is he?

Based on anything other than the vibe?



At this point you’ve just got to shake your head and laugh.

I wasn’t comparing the two as talents.



Kind of ironic from someone who thought I was comparing Dow to Ward, no?

And not screaming. Laughing.



I’m not the one leaning into intangibles like potential and, well, vibe.

But then again I’m not the Hawthorn supporter here so whether he does or he doesn’t isn’t of huge consequence.

I get you’re hopeful. Sometimes as fans hope is all we have.

this reply is a whole lot of nothing.

You brought up Dow not me.

You’re screaming bias because you don’t understand.

This is laughable.