Which team out of Adelaide, North and Hawthorn has the better youth?

[Kane McGoodwin]

You don't recall a lot things.

Feel free to provide an actual link rather than your usual lazy reply...

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Lol you did not lead all day. The crows were in front at the end of every quarter.

Being in front with 5 minutes to go doesn’t mean much, when the stat sheet suggests that you were lucky to be in front, and the better team rightfully won.

The stat sheet of Round 2 2022
Port v Hawthorn

Port
+74 disposals
+12 inside 50s
+24 clearances
+8 contested possessions
+19 tackles

Score line?
Hawthorn +64
56-120

Adelaide game?
Hawthorn were
-3 disposals
-6 inside 50s
-12 clearances
-11 contested possessions
+13 tackles

We were behind slightly at the end of QT1 but ahead at HT. Slightly behind at QT3 but ahead for almost all of quarter 4. Would’ve been 90% of the quarter.

Our pressure was immense and we were able to cause you into a lot of fumbles and mistakes, we were aswell as it was a heated contest however at times we were better at handling that pressure. Our ball movement was good.

It’s probably up to the eye of the beholder (you’re an Adelaide fan so clearly you think you should’ve won) but we were either close or ahead and for the key part of the game were for 90% in the last quarter. Rankines goal (over the line) & Fogartys brilliant finish from the pocket aswell as a missed ITB to Dylan Moore were the turning point to a young group who’d been the better side for that last quarter by far.

We should of won that game, we didn’t and we move on, and win losses don’t matter much, but in a shitting contest like this is. It’s relevant. If we had Lewis and Day it’d be a huge difference to both of these close games.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

With a % of a little over 75%. Doubt we would have ever seen a top 8 team with that %.

Hawks are probably doing better than expected, but Adelaide are so far ahead of them there's no comparison.

With some luck, they could be challenging top 4. They haven't had the catastrophic losses the Hawks have had. Last week a prime example. You had your best forward line and only scored 5.4.34. Or 2.3.15 to 12.17.89 after quarter time. You were lucky GC didn't kick straight.

And that's not the only game the Hawks have been smashed. Adelaide on the other hand hasn't been pulverised in games.

So don't kid yourself where you are at right now in comparison to Adelaide. That's 'kinda funny'.

Our % would improve with Sicily playing and not missing games, as would Lewis playing the whole season + Day. But it still would be bad. But the fact it’s a realistic possibility we could be sitting at 8 wins is funny and cool. However it started because apparently looking at one positive means the negatives (injuries or suspensions) on top of natural progression of a season means that everything is discredited.

Adelaide are ahead, but if you’re looking at youth. Even if it were to be a futures side, where you add Dawson in because he’s going to play for a long time. It isn’t far off.

But just under 22 which is “youth” and the point of the thread. Hawthorn would be ahead in my opinion and it’s not far fetched because we rely more on youth.

It was kinda funny because he was having a go because of win losses after I was positive about our midfield performance.

 

[SSSSSS]

How do you mean?

Like I said, Hawks fans in here have been ignoring their worst performances.

Looking at 50+ point losses, the Hawks have 7, North have 3 and Adelaide have 0.

Hawthorn need to figure out how to minimize their big losses before claiming to be way ahead in their rebuild.

It's just a difference in philosophy.

We lost by 50+ points on two occasions under Clarko in 2021 and only once in 2020. Clarko sets up defensively with a spare at almost every occasion.

Mitchell doesn't. Even (in)famously sent Sicily forward in the dying moments against the Crows when we were up in the last few minutes rather than using him as a spare defender. We are playing a bit of 'Bazball' under Mitchell. Gunning for wins but that exposes us on the rebound. Losing is a great teacher though and we've become a lot more measured in the last month.

Mitchell is adopting an early Clarko idea of winning the right way. Clarko used to be the same in 04-06. Coughed up many a Premiership point playing aggressively rather than trying to defend a narrow lead.

 

[VinnieB]

Our % would improve with Sicily playing and not missing games, as would Lewis playing the whole season + Day. But it still would be bad. But the fact it’s a realistic possibility we could be sitting at 8 wins is funny and cool. However it started because apparently looking at one positive means the negatives (injuries or suspensions) on top of natural progression of a season means that everything is discredited.

Adelaide are ahead, but if you’re looking at youth. Even if it were to be a futures side, where you add Dawson in because he’s going to play for a long time. It isn’t far off.

But just under 22 which is “youth” and the point of the thread. Hawthorn would be ahead in my opinion and it’s not far fetched because we rely more on youth.

It was kinda funny because he was having a go because of win losses after I was positive about our midfield performance.

I disagree. The quality of Adelaide’s 22 and under is so much better than Hawthorn’s. They may not have the same number of under 22 players, but it’s not about quantity, because many of those may not kick on.

I see Hawk fans like to point out that Adelaide have more established players, but that’s a cop out to make them feel better. Adelaide wouldn’t be playing as well as they are without the kids they have brought on. And these kids will likely keep improving over the next couple of years.

Your poor % hasn’t been because of Sicily and Lewis not playing. Because they have played when you haven’t scored much or the opposition has scored heavily.

Fact is Hawks need time and are really a couple of years away from being consistently more competitive. You just need to face the fact that Adelaide’s recruiting has been strong and they are playing good, consistent footy not just in Adelaide.

 

[Sphynx]

Sphynx still waiting on why Nash winning 9.1% CC/CBA is important in assessing his prowess.

What the hell are you rambling on about now?

I responded to a specific statement from a Hawks poster who was talking about Nash's % of clearances won.

Please go back and read it and come back to me.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

I disagree. The quality of Adelaide’s 22 and under is so much better than Hawthorn’s. They may not have the same number of under 22 players, but it’s not about quantity, because many of those may not kick on.

I see Hawk fans like to point out that Adelaide have more established players, but that’s a cop out to make them feel better. Adelaide wouldn’t be playing as well as they are without the kids they have brought on. And these kids will likely keep improving over the next couple of years.

Your poor % hasn’t been because of Sicily and Lewis not playing. Because they have played when you haven’t scored much or the opposition has scored heavily.

Fact is Hawks need time and are really a couple of years away from being consistently more competitive. You just need to face the fact that Adelaide’s recruiting has been strong and they are playing good, consistent footy not just in Adelaide.

Massive LOL (bolded)

They’ve got some good kids but we have the same amount of quality kids + more.

Our poor % recently in Gold Coast and Port games can come down to Sicilys effect on a youthful backline. It sucks but it’s the reality. And Lewis missing the start of the year was big for our lack of scoring power. Bar the Suns game we have been the best for 5 weeks.

Yep they are playing good footy, they’re heavily reliant on Adelaide oval as their away record is poor but it’s good footy and they have a nice balanced team. But they’re also relying on seniors and from a youth POV they’re not ahead of us.

The thread is about youth, and funnily enough started by a Crows fan

Hawthorn depending on off season moves should be improving a fair amount next year, not just ladder wise but consistency. 1-2 before we are finals contenders imho, 2024-25.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Yeah, poor us.

Better than a 32 year old Karl Amon on $750k per year though I suppose.

Jared Polec for Pick 11 (Butters)

Amon for Free

Il take Amons contract please

 

[Sphynx]

Jared Polec for Pick 11 (Butters)

Amon for Free

Il take Amons contract please

Do I really need to raise the likes of JOM and Wingard?

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Do I really need to raise the likes of JOM and Wingard?

Talking about outside wingers in comparison

Getting players while trying to win a 4th flag in a row > Getting player after finishing 9th to make finals

Il Take our last 10 years thanks

You should be miles in front of us in a rebuild, Alas, No

 

[HeHateMe]

How do you mean?

Like I said, Hawks fans in here have been ignoring their worst performances.

Looking at 50+ point losses, the Hawks have 7, North have 3 and Adelaide have 0.

Hawthorn need to figure out how to minimize their big losses before claiming to be way ahead in their rebuild.

Yeah I guess we are an optimistic bunch, I know I am personally. With the good performances you can see that we are good enough but the club just needs to find a way to make them more common, like the crows have this year.

I'd be more concerned if the club has been unable to match it with the best, 2020 spring to mind where we got off to a decent start but fell away big time without any significant signs of the club improving. I'd much prefer the last 2 years where we have been able to really take it up to the best on our day, bad half and quarters are killing us while we play aggressively but when the guys pull it together it's great footy.

 

[VinnieB]

Massive LOL (bolded)

They’ve got some good kids but we have the same amount of quality kids + more.

Our poor % recently in Gold Coast and Port games can come down to Sicilys effect on a youthful backline. It sucks but it’s the reality. And Lewis missing the start of the year was big for our lack of scoring power. Bar the Suns game we have been the best for 5 weeks.

Yep they are playing good footy, they’re heavily reliant on Adelaide oval as their away record is poor but it’s good footy and they have a nice balanced team. But they’re also relying on seniors and from a youth POV they’re not ahead of us.

The thread is about youth, and funnily enough started by a Crows fan

Hawthorn depending on off season moves should be improving a fair amount next year, not just ladder wise but consistency. 1-2 before we are finals contenders imho, 2024-25.

No the GC result was not because Siciliy wasn’t playing. It was your midfielders being torched by GC midfielders.

The reason Hawthorn lose by huge margins is also because of the lack of defensive effort from their midfielders.

The backline can only do so much, and there were plenty of games Sicily has played (1 player) where you have been smashed

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

The quality of Adelaide’s 22 and under is so much better than Hawthorn’s. They may not have the same number of under 22 players, but it’s not about quantity, because many of those may not kick on.

I want to see you die on this hill. It will be fun.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

No the GC result was not because Siciliy wasn’t playing. It was your midfielders being torched by GC midfielders.

The reason Hawthorn lose by huge margins is also because of the lack of defensive effort from their midfielders.

The backline can only do so much, and there were plenty of games Sicily has played (1 player) where you have been smashed

Sicilys impact was a chain effect. Moore plays higher up the ground when Day moves out of the midfield and into the backline to slow scoring.

It’s structure not just the player. Despite his quality.

We lost by big margins early because we were still building our cohesion with each other & the gameplan, whilst having a big key structure piece injured.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

The loss of Lewis had a domino effect on the rest of the ground early in the year, combined with how young the midfield group is and their development it really was the perfect storm for a side to get belted.
Now at the other end no Sicily means a similar thing, in that players are needing to step into a different role or cover for another player who’s moved to a different part of the structure. This creates weak links when players with sub 20 games need to learn and adjust mid-game.

Was actually amazing listening to commentators marvel at how different we looked when Lewis returned and we suddenly had a key forward who demanded the ball. Like, no shit, you dumb ****s.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

The loss of Lewis had a domino effect on the rest of the ground early in the year, combined with how young the midfield group is and their development it really was the perfect storm for a side to get belted.
Now at the other end no Sicily means a similar thing, in that players are needing to step into a different role or cover for another player who’s moved to a different part of the structure. This creates weak links when players with sub 20 games need to learn and adjust mid-game.

Was actually amazing listening to commentators marvel at how different we looked when Lewis returned and we suddenly had a key forward who demanded the ball. Like, no s**t, you dumb *s.

Which likely is much less relied on in 2024 with half a season, pre season etc together.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I want to see you die on this hill. It will be fun.

You already have...

 

[VinnieB]

You already have...

And he never lets the truth get in the way of one of his stories….

 

[VinnieB]

The loss of Lewis had a domino effect on the rest of the ground early in the year, combined with how young the midfield group is and their development it really was the perfect storm for a side to get belted.
Now at the other end no Sicily means a similar thing, in that players are needing to step into a different role or cover for another player who’s moved to a different part of the structure. This creates weak links when players with sub 20 games need to learn and adjust mid-game.

Was actually amazing listening to commentators marvel at how different we looked when Lewis returned and we suddenly had a key forward who demanded the ball. Like, no s**t, you dumb *s.

Your life must be one big long excuse….

 

[VinnieB]

I want to see you die on this hill. It will be fun.

I’m sure you remember when you guys were talking up Scrimshaw and Jiath as future AA….

 

[SSSSSS]

I’m sure you remember when you guys were talking up Scrimshaw and Jiath as future AA….

Scrimshaw suits the Clarko game style more than Sam's run and gun approach for sure (just look at how much faith Sam is showing in Seamus Mitchell and Weddle).

Wouldn't be surprised if he gets a tap on the shoulder to link back with old mate. Think he'd be a fantastic get for North. North need some good ball users out of half back and it's not like Ziebell, LMac and Hall are generating much metreage from running.

CJ just hasn't been the same since his injury. Hopefully he gets his body right and we have been giving him plenty of time this year. One of the most fun players to watch when he's in full flight.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

The stat sheet of Round 2 2022
Port v Hawthorn

Port
+74 disposals
+12 inside 50s
+24 clearances
+8 contested possessions
+19 tackles

Score line?
Hawthorn +64
56-120

Adelaide game?
Hawthorn were
-3 disposals
-6 inside 50s
-12 clearances
-11 contested possessions
+13 tackles

We were behind slightly at the end of QT1 but ahead at HT. Slightly behind at QT3 but ahead for almost all of quarter 4. Would’ve been 90% of the quarter.

Our pressure was immense and we were able to cause you into a lot of fumbles and mistakes, we were aswell as it was a heated contest however at times we were better at handling that pressure. Our ball movement was good.

It’s probably up to the eye of the beholder (you’re an Adelaide fan so clearly you think you should’ve won) but we were either close or ahead and for the key part of the game were for 90% in the last quarter. Rankines goal (over the line) & Fogartys brilliant finish from the pocket aswell as a missed ITB to Dylan Moore were the turning point to a young group who’d been the better side for that last quarter by far.

We should of won that game, we didn’t and we move on, and win losses don’t matter much, but in a shitting contest like this is. It’s relevant. If we had Lewis and Day it’d be a huge difference to both of these close games.

look obviously you were upset about being overrun, after leading late, but you're now gaslighting yourself into believing you were the better team. You thinking you lead for most of the day is evidence of this, and the Crows were in front at HT too

hawthorn played well that day, above your standard for the season, and the crows wwere having a mediocre day, weren't playing at their best, but the Crows were objectively the better team.

Also t

 

[VinnieB]

Do I really need to raise the likes of JOM and Wingard?

But seriously, Jared Polec…..?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I’m sure you remember when you guys were talking up Scrimshaw and Jiath as future AA….

They’re 23 and 24 and have both had interrupted years, you make it sound like their careers are over because they’ve not peaked already.


I remember you trying to tell me that there was no evidence that Hawthorn would play 2 rucks under Mitchell, despite us having done so for 15 years.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

You already have...

Not surprising to see you’ve not comprehended what you’ve read.

Winky face.