Which team out of Adelaide, North and Hawthorn has the better youth?

[The Nostradamus]

having a mixed demographic helps. Sydney’s mini rebuild is an example of the latter. For example Kennedy was a spent force by end of 21 but was kept on another year. Possible this was helpful to Gulden, Campbell, Warmer, Blakey and co.

nmfc may have more youngsters than Adelaide or Hawthorn but are they any good and if yes, will they stay? Having some older quality experienced players helps. Again but Shiels and Larkey aside, the others are not much chop. It was a pity they could not accommodate Goldy.

Think the Hawks were smart getting Gunston back to add quality experience and mentoring to their team. Will also give without fear or favour views to the Coach and assistants. Sicily is a terrific player but am not sure having a bag of door knobs as skipper sends the right message or helps their youngsters.

I am no big wrap for Tex and Sloane has entered Cotchin limping to retirement, but both have probably influenced development of the younger players.

I still have the Crows in front, just ahead of the Hawks.

In some ways it was telling Adelaide backed their system and took Curtin in the draft. He is obviously a terrific prospect. Seems Clarko and nmfc put a lot of time into the lad but finally accepted he would not stay.

The good news is we will find out next year if they are good or not

As they’ll all be playing

Out of the 5 players older than 26 only lmac and Corr are best 23

So the remainder 21 players will be 25 and under

 

[LoBu]

I was super impressed with Nash's performance against the Crows this year but I watched him closely after that and he was inconsistent, seems to rely on a good matchup, others would know better than me as to why and if he can develop this part of his game.

There is some (understandable) under-rating of the Adelaide midfield, it has been and is still in transition from the old 2017 midfield to the new 2024 midfield, and it's taking a few years.

But when you look at the number of top draft picks Adelaide has taken here, along with our trades the past couple of years, we have addressed this and I expect a massive uptick this year.

Led by Dawson, all Australian midfielder, we have a tall mid. We also have Laird (2x All Australian) who is still in good form, but now ably supported by a growing team of premier midfielders - first rounders Pedlar and Rachele round out a potentially elite starting 3 with one rotation.

Further rotations include Crouch, Soligo, Rankine, and Schoenberg, and we have emerging talent that don't have exposed form. Billy Dowling and Zak Taylor are shaping up very nicely and looking at debuts this year. We don't know how good Charlie Edwards is, but he's a first-rounder, and we don't know what Curtin is beyond a defender who drives attack.

Our depth from there extends to Keays, Sloane, and Berry, while I'm also hoping Nankervis can transition from half back a bit like W. Day. Nank's games last year showed his flair for taking the game on and excellent decision-making in disposal. The last is Mitch Hinge, who currently is a wing but also looks to have the midfield ability, a lot like Dawson.

Our midfield in reality runs very deep, and we have a very good first 6, four who can rotate forward (Dawson, Pedlar, Rachele, Rankine), 2 who can rotate back (Dawson and Laird), and Crouch who can rotate off the bench. Soligo gets clearances but can be a wing and a forward.

If one of Dowling, Edwards or Curtin makes the grade, we are set for the long term. Taylor is also an excellent prospect albeit smaller.

I understand that much of this hasn't happened yet, but in this thread it's completely appropriate given the mix of youth coming through replacing the older players are already in the club. Our midfield is super exciting, with a strong depth of experience and youth.

 

[LoBu]

What Hawthorn have done better than the Crows or North is find and develop players outside from the first draft and used their fine VFL/reserves program at Box Hill.

That means they will have a pretty deep list once they are ready to contend (fix up their KPP holes)

That approach probably is the slower 'burn' but I also think it means they will a more resilient team with also a strong work rate and culture (those later two qualifies Clarko really needs to instill into North)

Not really, it just means they haven't had first-round picks, and have been forced to look at less talented but more mature bodies to fill this gap. It's actually a faster burn and will likely result in hanging around ninth for a long time, let's not wish that upon anybody

To be fair they've uncover a couple of beauties, but the Crows and North have had completely different strategies and haven't even bothered with this approach. Recruiting mature picks is more of a Geelong strategy, and Hawthorn have obviously been doing this for a while too, even though they have now dropped to the bottom end of the ladder where it makes less sense.

 

[Soggy2112]

What Hawthorn have done better than the Crows or North is find and develop players outside from the first draft and used their fine VFL/reserves program at Box Hill.

That means they will have a pretty deep list once they are ready to contend (fix up their KPP holes)

That approach probably is the slower 'burn' but I also think it means they will a more resilient team with also a strong work rate and culture (those later two qualifies Clarko really needs to instill into North)

Keays, Murphy, Hinge, Murray, Butts and O’Brien all regular ones players from outside the draft.

We don’t have a reserves program as good as the Box Hill one, but the SANFL top up rules wouldn’t permit that.

 

[Soggy2112]

Our future midfield depends largely on Pedlar and Rachele.

We’ve seen plenty of talented forward-midfielders build a tank and progress to being elite midfielders (Martin, Dangerfield, Petracca, Ablett etc). If one or both of those guys can do that then Dawson, Crouch, Soligo with those players, potentially add in Berry if he gets back on track, and it has huge potential.

 

[1990crow]

Our future midfield depends largely on Pedlar and Rachele.

We’ve seen plenty of talented forward-midfielders build a tank and progress to being elite midfielders (Martin, Dangerfield, Petracca, Ablett etc). If one or both of those guys can do that then Dawson, Crouch, Soligo with those players, potentially add in Berry if he gets back on track, and it has huge potential.

That's without Curtin becoming a midfielder too, or obtaining one through trade or free agency this offseason.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Players aged 25 (at the start of next season) and younger for each respective side, broken down into their positions.

Plus the 26 fo 30 group - who could still potentially be around once (if) these teams contend in Finals.

Adelaide

Spoiler

Defenders
25 - Himmelberg, Hinge
24 - Butts, Jones, Keane
23 - Hamill, Murray
22 - Parnell, Worrell
21 - Borlase
20 - Michalanney
19 -
18 - Ryan

Rucks
N/A

Midfielders
25 -
24 - Sholl
23 - Schoenberg
22 -
21 - Soligo, Berry, Cook, Taylor
20 - Nankervis
19 - Curtin, Bond, Dowling
18 - Edwards

Forwards
25 - Murphy
24 - Fogarty
23 - Rankine, McHenry
22 - Gollant
21 - Tilthorpe, Pedlar
20 - Rachele
19 -
18 -

Players 26 to 30
26 - Dawson, Milera
27 - Keays
28 - ROB, Crouch, Burgess, Strachan
30 - Laird

North Melbourne

Spoiler

Defenders
25 - Logue, K. Dawson
24 -
23 - Nyoun
22 - Lazarro
21 - Sheezel, Bergman, Archer
20 - Goater
19 - Hardeman
18 - W. Dawson

Rucks
25 - Xerri, Free
18 - Goad

Midfielders
25 -
24 - LDU, Thomas
23 - Scott, Stephens
22 - Powell
21 - Phillips
20 -
19 - Wardlaw, Harvey
18 - McKercher

Forwards
25 - Larkey, Fisher, Stephenson, Zurhaar
24 - CCJ
23 - Taylor
22 - Comben
21 - Curtis, Ford
20 - George, Hansen
19 - Drury
18 - Duursma

Players 26 to 30
26 - Simpkin
27 - Tucker
29 - Corr, McDonald

Hawthorn

Spoiler

Defenders
25 - Scrimshaw
24 - CJ
23 - Blanck
21 - DGB, Serong, Mitchell
20 - D'Ambrosio
19 - Weddle, Macdonald
18 - McCabe, Ryan

Rucks
25 - Meek, Reeves
19 - Tucker

Midfield
25 - Nash, Worpel, Morrison
23 - Maginess, Stephens
22 - Newcombe, Day
20 - Ward, Mackenzie
19 - Hustwaite

Forwards
25 - Lewis
24 - Moore
21 - MacDonald, Ginnivan, Butler
20 - Ramsden
19 - O'Sullivan, Bennetts
18 - Watson, Dear

Players 26 to 30
27 - Hardwick, Chol
28 - Impey, Amon
29 - Sicily
30 - Wingard

 

[1990crow]

Players aged 25 (at the start of next season) and younger for each respective side, broken down into their positions.

Plus the 26 fo 30 group - who could still potentially be around once (if) these teams contend in Finals.

Adelaide

Spoiler

Defenders
25 - Himmelberg, Hinge
24 - Butts, Jones, Keane
23 - Hamill, Murray
22 - Parnell, Worrell
21 - Borlase
20 - Michalanney
19 -
18 - Ryan

Rucks
N/A

Midfielders
25 -
24 - Sholl
23 - Schoenberg
22 -
21 - Soligo, Berry, Cook, Taylor
20 - Nankervis
19 - Curtin, Bond, Dowling
18 - Edwards

Forwards
25 - Murphy
24 - Fogarty
23 - Rankine, McHenry
22 - Gollant
21 - Tilthorpe, Pedlar
20 - Rachele
19 -
18 -

Players 26 to 30
26 - Dawson, Milera
27 - Keays
28 - ROB, Crouch, Burgess, Strachan
30 - Laird

North Melbourne

Spoiler

Defenders
25 - Logue, K. Dawson
24 -
23 - Nyoun
22 - Lazarro
21 - Sheezel, Bergman, Archer
20 - Goater
19 - Hardeman
18 - W. Dawson

Rucks
25 - Xerri, Free
18 - Goad

Midfielders
25 -
24 - LDU, Thomas
23 - Scott, Stephens
22 - Powell
21 - Phillips
20 -
19 - Wardlaw, Harvey
18 - McKercher

Forwards
25 - Larkey, Fisher, Stephenson, Zurhaar
24 - CCJ
23 - Taylor
22 - Comben
21 - Curtis, Ford
20 - George, Hansen
19 - Drury
18 - Duursma

Players 26 to 30
26 - Simpkin
27 - Tucker
29 - Corr, McDonald

Hawthorn

Spoiler

Defenders
25 - Scrimshaw
24 - CJ
23 - Blanck
21 - DGB, Serong, Mitchell
20 - D'Ambrosio
19 - Weddle, Macdonald
18 - McCabe, Ryan

Rucks
25 - Meek, Reeves
19 - Tucker

Midfield
25 - Nash, Worpel, Morrison
23 - Maginess, Stephens
22 - Newcombe, Day
20 - Ward, Mackenzie
19 - Hustwaite

Forwards
25 - Lewis
24 - Moore
21 - MacDonald, Ginnivan, Butler
20 - Ramsden
19 - O'Sullivan, Bennetts
18 - Watson, Dear

Players 26 to 30
27 - Hardwick
28 - Impey, Amon
29 - Sicily
30 - Wingard

Lol. Hawks fans and putting Pedlar and Rachele in as forwards.
Death, taxes, and...

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Lol. Hawks fans and putting Pedlar and Rachele in as forwards.
Death, taxes, and...

Cry less. I love Rachele and he'd be one of the top few players I'd pick out of anyone on that list, Hawks included.

Right now he's not a fulltime midfielder and I had to place him somewhere.

Pedlar kicked 25 goals this season, but averaged uner 12 touches. You tell me where he played.

 

[Blackhawk42]

You reckon Nash would finish 3rd in the Crows B&F? Ahead of Tex and Rankine?

He did beat Sicily in ours...

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Cry less. I love Rachele and he'd be one of the top few players I'd pick out of anyone on that list, Hawks included.

Right now he's not a fulltime midfielder and I had to place him somewhere.

Pedlar kicked 25 goals this season, but averaged uner 12 touches. You tell me where he played.

Good luck.

 

[the big lebowski]

Players aged 25 (at the start of next season) and younger for each respective side, broken down into their positions.

Plus the 26 fo 30 group - who could still potentially be around once (if) these teams contend in Finals.

Adelaide

Spoiler

Defenders
25 - Himmelberg, Hinge
24 - Butts, Jones, Keane
23 - Hamill, Murray
22 - Parnell, Worrell
21 - Borlase
20 - Michalanney
19 -
18 - Ryan

Rucks
N/A

Midfielders
25 -
24 - Sholl
23 - Schoenberg
22 -
21 - Soligo, Berry, Cook, Taylor
20 - Nankervis
19 - Curtin, Bond, Dowling
18 - Edwards

Forwards
25 - Murphy
24 - Fogarty
23 - Rankine, McHenry
22 - Gollant
21 - Tilthorpe, Pedlar
20 - Rachele
19 -
18 -

Players 26 to 30
26 - Dawson, Milera
27 - Keays
28 - ROB, Crouch, Burgess, Strachan
30 - Laird

North Melbourne

Spoiler

Defenders
25 - Logue, K. Dawson
24 -
23 - Nyoun
22 - Lazarro
21 - Sheezel, Bergman, Archer
20 - Goater
19 - Hardeman
18 - W. Dawson

Rucks
25 - Xerri, Free
18 - Goad

Midfielders
25 -
24 - LDU, Thomas
23 - Scott, Stephens
22 - Powell
21 - Phillips
20 -
19 - Wardlaw, Harvey
18 - McKercher

Forwards
25 - Larkey, Fisher, Stephenson, Zurhaar
24 - CCJ
23 - Taylor
22 - Comben
21 - Curtis, Ford
20 - George, Hansen
19 - Drury
18 - Duursma

Players 26 to 30
26 - Simpkin
27 - Tucker
29 - Corr, McDonald

Hawthorn

Spoiler

Defenders
25 - Scrimshaw
24 - CJ
23 - Blanck
21 - DGB, Serong, Mitchell
20 - D'Ambrosio
19 - Weddle, Macdonald
18 - McCabe, Ryan

Rucks
25 - Meek, Reeves
19 - Tucker

Midfield
25 - Nash, Worpel, Morrison
23 - Maginess, Stephens
22 - Newcombe, Day
20 - Ward, Mackenzie
19 - Hustwaite

Forwards
25 - Lewis
24 - Moore
21 - MacDonald, Ginnivan, Butler
20 - Ramsden
19 - O'Sullivan, Bennetts
18 - Watson, Dear

Players 26 to 30
27 - Hardwick
28 - Impey, Amon
29 - Sicily
30 - Wingard

Good way of looking at it

 

[The Nostradamus]

Players aged 25 (at the start of next season) and younger for each respective side, broken down into their positions.

Plus the 26 fo 30 group - who could still potentially be around once (if) these teams contend in Finals.

Adelaide

Spoiler

Defenders
25 - Himmelberg, Hinge
24 - Butts, Jones, Keane
23 - Hamill, Murray
22 - Parnell, Worrell
21 - Borlase
20 - Michalanney
19 -
18 - Ryan

Rucks
N/A

Midfielders
25 -
24 - Sholl
23 - Schoenberg
22 -
21 - Soligo, Berry, Cook, Taylor
20 - Nankervis
19 - Curtin, Bond, Dowling
18 - Edwards

Forwards
25 - Murphy
24 - Fogarty
23 - Rankine, McHenry
22 - Gollant
21 - Tilthorpe, Pedlar
20 - Rachele
19 -
18 -

Players 26 to 30
26 - Dawson, Milera
27 - Keays
28 - ROB, Crouch, Burgess, Strachan
30 - Laird

North Melbourne

Spoiler

Defenders
25 - Logue, K. Dawson
24 -
23 - Nyoun
22 - Lazarro
21 - Sheezel, Bergman, Archer
20 - Goater
19 - Hardeman
18 - W. Dawson

Rucks
25 - Xerri, Free
18 - Goad

Midfielders
25 -
24 - LDU, Thomas
23 - Scott, Stephens
22 - Powell
21 - Phillips
20 -
19 - Wardlaw, Harvey
18 - McKercher

Forwards
25 - Larkey, Fisher, Stephenson, Zurhaar
24 - CCJ
23 - Taylor
22 - Comben
21 - Curtis, Ford
20 - George, Hansen
19 - Drury
18 - Duursma

Players 26 to 30
26 - Simpkin
27 - Tucker
29 - Corr, McDonald

Hawthorn

Spoiler

Defenders
25 - Scrimshaw
24 - CJ
23 - Blanck
21 - DGB, Serong, Mitchell
20 - D'Ambrosio
19 - Weddle, Macdonald
18 - McCabe, Ryan

Rucks
25 - Meek, Reeves
19 - Tucker

Midfield
25 - Nash, Worpel, Morrison
23 - Maginess, Stephens
22 - Newcombe, Day
20 - Ward, Mackenzie
19 - Hustwaite

Forwards
25 - Lewis
24 - Moore
21 - MacDonald, Ginnivan, Butler
20 - Ramsden
19 - O'Sullivan, Bennetts
18 - Watson, Dear

Players 26 to 30
27 - Hardwick
28 - Impey, Amon
29 - Sicily
30 - Wingard

Few pages back we all posted 25 and under teams which depict the above in a best 22 format

 

[Caligo]

Lol. Hawks fans and putting Pedlar and Rachele in as forwards.
Death, taxes, and...

They are forwards. They average 5.4 contested possessions and 1.4 clearances each per game at 65 percent disposal efficiency (in 2023). If they aren't forwards, those are bottom 20percent of the league numbers.

Rachele is a gun though. Wish he was a Hawk. Not a midfielder yet though.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

1990crow

Starting position of where Pedlar was named per game:

Wing - 3
HFF - 13
FP - 3
Bench - 2
DNP - 2

Adelaide's official site:


Averaged 1.4 clearances a game (0.5 centre clearances) along with his 12 odd touches, and 25 goals.

But do tell me again where he played and what his position was. I'm waiting.

 

[1990crow]

1990crow

Starting position of where Pedlar was named per game:

Wing - 3
HFF - 13
FP - 3
Bench - 2
DNP - 2

Adelaide's official site:
View attachment 1862469

Averaged 1.4 clearances a game (0.5 centre clearances) along with his 12 odd touches, and 25 goals.

But do tell me again where he played and what his position was. I'm waiting.

He's training with the mids. The post stated what he "is". He's a midfielder starting his career on a half forward flank because he's been injury interrupted.

Now he's not.

 

[1990crow]

They are forwards. They average 5.4 contested possessions and 1.4 clearances each per game at 65 percent disposal efficiency (in 2023). If they aren't forwards, those are bottom 20percent of the league numbers.

Rachele is a gun though. Wish he was a Hawk. Not a midfielder yet though.

See above. He's a mid.

 

[Soggy2112]

How people are struggling to grasp the concept that Pedlar is seen as a midfielder for the future, in a thread entirely dedicated to discussing the future is baffling.

Just because he played forward this year, does not mean he is not seen as a future mid.

De Goey, Dangerfield, Petracca, Martin, Butters and Gulden all spent more time forward in the early parts of their careers.

 

[Caligo]

How people are struggling to grasp the concept that Pedlar is seen as a midfielder for the future, in a thread entirely dedicated to discussing the future is baffling.

Just because he played forward this year, does not mean he is not seen as a future mid.

De Goey, Dangerfield, Petracca, Martin, Butters and Gulden all spent more time forward in the early parts of their careers.

Then he isn't a mid. He might become a mid. He might not. But he isn't yet.

 

[Soggy2112]

Then he isn't a mid. He might become a mid. He might not. But he isn't yet.

But the thread is dedicated to discussing the future?

 

[Caligo]

But the thread is dedicated to discussing the future?

Then say you hope he will be a mid one day. I hope mcdonald will be a mid one day, but I don't call him a mid. Because he isn't one yet.

 

[ferball]

Only as a result of some pretty serious AFL interventions but I think the answer is now North.

Backline is still pretty terrible but their midfield is going to be very very good. ...

WTactualF do AFL interventions have to do with our midfield?

 

[hawkman]

How people are struggling to grasp the concept that Pedlar is seen as a midfielder for the future, in a thread entirely dedicated to discussing the future is baffling.

Just because he played forward this year, does not mean he is not seen as a future mid.

De Goey, Dangerfield, Petracca, Martin, Butters and Gulden all spent more time forward in the early parts of their careers.

There are also plenty of others who spent time forward who were seen as potentially mids that never made the leap to being a mid. Or they were found to be more productive as a forward than a mid.

I'm pretty sure we would have been laughed at for including Day as a mid at the start of the year, now he has proved he can do it no one has an issue including him as a mid now

 

[Judd2Sewell]

How people are struggling to grasp the concept that Pedlar is seen as a midfielder for the future, in a thread entirely dedicated to discussing the future is baffling.

Just because he played forward this year, does not mean he is not seen as a future mid.

De Goey, Dangerfield, Petracca, Martin, Butters and Gulden all spent more time forward in the early parts of their careers.

There's no issue in grasping this. Our own Connor MacDonald is in the exact same position.

The issue was the response from 1990Crow to begin with.

And now you're telling me he's just started training with the midfielders, as if we were meant to know that two sessions into the pre-season, instead of using all the evidence that was presently available - that being him never being named in the midfield, etc.

 

[HeHateMe]

He's training with the mids. The post stated what he "is". He's a midfielder starting his career on a half forward flank because he's been injury interrupted.

Now he's not.

You could probably bump a few crows supporters saying Will Day wasn't a mid start of last year even though he was training with the mids.

It's just how things are, once he starts performing as a mid everyone will rate him as one. Don't worry about it.