Which teams list would you least want going forward?

[Kangaroos4eva]

I think those names you listed are his point. They hardly send shivers down opposition spines. Wood is 23 also so not much of a youngster.

I know his and your's point quite well, you don't rate our youth and no matter what i say is going to change that opinion. As for Wood's age, he only turned 23 a few months ago, hardly an old fart. With the exception of a few high draft picks at a couple of clubs, most youth at all clubs don't send shivers down the spines of opposition because they are youth, untried and untested, north and west coast are no exceptions to this.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

I'll take draft/rookies picks of Boekhorst, Cuningham, Curnow, H. McKay, Silvagni, Weitering, SPS, Fisher, Macreadie, Polson, Kerr, LeBois...
And trade ins of Jaksch, Kerridge, Lamb, Phillips, Plowman, Wright, Smedts, Marchbank, Pickett, Palmer.

Over:
Draft/rookie picks of Simpkin, Watson, Josh Williams, Larkey, Zurhaar, Clarke, Durdin, Fordham, Hibberd, B. McKay, Mountford, Nielson, Preuss, Vickers-Willis, Wagner,
And trade ins of Ahern, Hrovat, Marley Williams, Anderson, Dal Santo, Waite, Higgins, Nahas, Farren Ray.

If I was a North supporter, I'd probably vote for North.

Your club traded in Billy Smedts which mean that you lose.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

You just had to fall for a troll post didn't you?

Btw, a little early to be boasting about recently drafted players and trades, especially when you name guys like Boekhorst and Palmer. Best to do a draft/trades comparison at the end of next season to see how everyone went.

I was purely commenting on the 'Carlton have drafted poorly' part of it and only really skimmed through the rest. I don't really see how it was a troll post, or how I 'fell' for it.
I wouldn't say it's boasting. Just a comparison of the names that have come in for both clubs from draft and trade in the past 2-3 years and an opinion on which list of names, based on potential, that I would prefer. Obviously not all of those players will end up making it, but that goes for both lists (obviously more time will provide better answers, but when replying to a comment about drafting poorly, I kind of need to look at who has been drafted recently).

Boekhorst was tracking quite well towards the end of last year and had his year interrupted by a broken wrist this year. He was a bit of a risk and an unorthodox pick, without doubt, but how many #19 picks go on to be top notch players? He's not a bust yet and if he can provide us with some outside run while getting around 18 touches a game, then I'd say it was worth it.

Palmer is a former rising star winner. He's shown that he can rack up 20-25 touches playing in the middle or be good for 15 touches and a goal or two a game playing forward. He adds some experience for a thin forward line, while providing midfield rotation, can potentially slot straight in rd1 and cost us pretty much nothing.

If you were starting a team from scratch and had both lists that I mentioned to choose from, which would you prefer?

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Your club traded in Billy Smedts which mean that you lose.

Dal Santo, Waite, Nahas, Ray... how's that topping up for a flag tilt going?

Looks like you pulled the ripchord and found an empty pack.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

I was purely commenting on the 'Carlton have drafted poorly' part of it and only really skimmed through the rest. I don't really see how it was a troll post, or how I 'fell' for it.
I wouldn't say it's boasting. Just a comparison of the names that have come in for both clubs from draft and trade in the past 2-3 years and an opinion on which list of names, based on potential, that I would prefer. Obviously not all of those players will end up making it, but that goes for both lists (obviously more time will provide better answers, but when replying to a comment about drafting poorly, I kind of need to look at who has been drafted recently).

Boekhorst was tracking quite well towards the end of last year and had his year interrupted by a broken wrist this year. He was a bit of a risk and an unorthodox pick, without doubt, but how many #19 picks go on to be top notch players? He's not a bust yet and if he can provide us with some outside run while getting around 18 touches a game, then I'd say it was worth it.

Palmer is a former rising star winner. He's shown that he can rack up 20-25 touches playing in the middle or be good for 15 touches and a goal or two a game playing forward. He adds some experience for a thin forward line, while providing midfield rotation, can potentially slot straight in rd1 and cost us pretty much nothing.

If you were starting a team from scratch and had both lists that I mentioned to choose from, which would you prefer?

It was a post to get a reaction out of you, but anyway, that's besides the point. I can give a detailed analysis of why I rate north's trading and drafting above the names you listed, but you'll disagree with my assessment, so there's no point.

I'll prefer North's list over Carlton's, because I know more about North's list than Carlton's and I naturally rate North's youth higher because of natural bias and I have followed their progress closely. It is far too early to judge recent draftees and trades, give it a year or two and then we can go back to a fair assessment of both lists.

 

[Richo83]

Consistently named by who, because sure as shit he isn't. Wood and McDonald with Dumont and Clarke behind them head our better youth stocks.

I'd prefer Docherty, Cripps and Weitering.

 

[Bazza97]

Port's list is rather poor .

Lots of overpaid B & C graders on long contracts. Wingard doesn't seem to be climbing the heights we expected of him after watching his debut season. Wines is now a plodder. There's very little else in terms of youth that's appealing.

Dixon is a confirmed spud. Hombsch (quality), and Marshall, the unproven draftee, are their only other two KPPs.

They go without next year's pick 3-8.

And their age profile is really awkward too. NM/Hawthorn are at least beginning full rebuilds. Power will probably keep the same midfield core for a couple years yet and I can't see it getting them too far above bottom 4.

I think you're being quite harsh on Wines and Dixon TBH.

IMO, Wines has been improving every year since he first started in 2013 and I reckon he is contributing more to the side than Boak is currently as Boak is not playing to his best form from a few years ago. However, if Boak can get back to his best form, on paper the Power's preferred on-ball brigade looks pretty good with a goal kicking Gray, a contested bull in Wines and Boak's run on the outside provides quite a good balance as well as all of these players winning enough of the contested ball as also. So I think there's still improvement from within the Power midfield.

Now Dixon's injury issues are well documented. He has never had a full season, but from his first year in 2011 to 2016 he has increased the number of games played per season starting from 11 games to now 18 games. His best season was probably his last year with the Suns in 2015 where in 16 games he kicked 41 goals with an average of 2.56 goals a game which was the 6th best average that season. So he has shown he's capable of achieving that scoring output which is more impressive in a side that really struggled that year. So say Dixon plays 20 games next year and has a goal kicking average of 2.5 goals per game, that is around 50 goals for the season which i'm sure most Power fans would take and if Wingard achieves something similar which I reckon is a pretty good chance that will go along way for the Power to make finals next year. Other than overall improvement in the team, the biggest factor that I see that will determine the Power's finals chances is if Wingard and Dixon increase their scoring output for next year which I feel is a real possibility.

But I think you're right about the Powers youth. When you compare the quality of it to other clubs in similar ladder positions such as Melbourne and St Kilda, it does lack some top-end talent that those clubs possess. The Power though do have some promising youngsters and the ones that come to mind include Byrne-Jones, Amon, Austin, Bonner and Impey and they're not necessarily high-end talents but they do look like potentially long-term players, so they might not be too bad going forward the Power. Also in the next couple of years if they are able to draft players in or around the first round it would be helpful for them going forward IMO.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

I'd prefer Docherty, Cripps and Weitering.

Many would over the four I named and Weitering was a top pick, so you would hope so. Those players aren't the problem at Carlton, there are other issues at play there in terms of their list and other 'youngsters'. Any list that still has Liam Jones on it, has to make you question a club's list.

As for the players I named, they are a lot rawer, with the exception of Mcdonald (even he's had his injury problems this past season). Clarke is a raw second round pick in his first year, Mcdonald was having a great year before his injury, Wood the same as Mcdonald and Dumont hasn't been able to get a full crack at the firsts until this year, due to Swallow, Cunnington and Ziebell. Time will tell who collectively will turn out better, but the Carlton group leads quite well atm.

 

[Milanista28]

Also both were born a week into the draft. This year they reckon Harry would of gone top 5 after.

LOL, Who's they?

 

[Richo83]

Many would over the four I named and Weitering was a top pick, so you would hope so. Those players aren't the problem at Carlton, there are other issues at play there in terms of their list and other 'youngsters'. Any list that still has Liam Jones on it, has to make you question a club's list.

As for the players I named, they are a lot rawer, with the exception of Mcdonald (even he's had his injury problems this past season). Clarke is a raw second round pick in his first year, Mcdonald was having a great year before his injury, Wood the same as Mcdonald and Dumont hasn't been able to get a full crack at the firsts until this year, due to Swallow, Cunnington and Ziebell. Time will tell who collectively will turn out better, but the Carlton group leads quite well atm.

Liam Jones comprises one spot on the list among around 40 odd. I suspect he's only on the list because Malthouse gave him a three year contract (stand to be corrected though). He is one of if not the worst players currently on an AFL list, and I imagine he'll be gone as soon as possible. As for rawness, Carlton also have a lot of rawness.

Wood is good, not sure he's your spearhead forward you need to replace Waite though. McDonald floats around at the back flank too much, for a guy with supposedly fantastic kicking skills, he needs to play in the midfield. Sometimes I'll see him against some C-grade forward flanker and wonder why he's being played there. Dumont is good but he's the kind of inside grunt man you can find relatively easily in each draft and is somewhat limited in terms of hurt factor. Clarke is an unkown.

 

[Kangaroos4eva]

Liam Jones comprises one spot on the list among around 40 odd. I suspect he's only on the list because Malthouse gave him a three year contract (stand to be corrected though). He is one of if not the worst players currently on an AFL list, and I imagine he'll be gone as soon as possible. As for rawness, Carlton also have a lot of rawness.

Wood is good, not sure he's your spearhead forward you need to replace Waite though. McDonald floats around at the back flank too much, for a guy with supposedly fantastic kicking skills, he needs to play in the midfield. Sometimes I'll see him against some C-grade forward flanker and wonder why he's being played there. Dumont is good but he's the kind of inside grunt man you can find relatively easily in each draft and is somewhat limited in terms of hurt factor. Clarke is an unkown.

On the subject of rawness, that is why I've repeatedly stated that it is too early to tell with a lot of young/younger players on all lists.


Waite has never and never will be our forward spearhead, it was Petrie's and now Brown's role (before you judge him, he still hadn't been able to get in a full preseason due to injuries and surgeries). Wood is a supporting third tall, whilst Daw is a makeshift second tall type (that I have reservations about). McDonald has played multiple roles from backline to tagging Rory Sloane. He's being moved into the midfield next season and this season, he finally showed off his kicking skills (he lacked composure in previous seasons with his kicking). You are selling Dumont a bit short, his foot skills going inside fifty and goal kicking are pretty good. Too early for Clarke, but a lively type.

 

[darthbards]

I'll take draft/rookies picks of Boekhorst, Cuningham, Curnow, H. McKay, Silvagni, Weitering, SPS, Fisher, Macreadie, Polson, Kerr, LeBois...
And trade ins of Jaksch, Kerridge, Lamb, Phillips, Plowman, Wright, Smedts, Marchbank, Pickett, Palmer.

Over:
Draft/rookie picks of Simpkin, Watson, Josh Williams, Larkey, Zurhaar, Clarke, Durdin, Fordham, Hibberd, B. McKay, Mountford, Nielson, Preuss, Vickers-Willis, Wagner,
And trade ins of Ahern, Hrovat, Marley Williams, Anderson, Dal Santo, Waite, Higgins, Nahas, Farren Ray.

If I was a North supporter, I'd probably vote for North.

Those Carlton trade ins are terrible though,most are just list cloggers and the ones that aren't we don't know because they never play due to injury.
I think North will go backwards this year but so will the Blues. I'd say theres a good chance the Blues will win yet another spoon which tells me their list is worse. I really don't know why you'd list most of those Carlton players you did and call it a good thing. All the draft picks are unknown though so it's hard to say except probably Boekhorst who you probably shouldn't have mentioned as he seems like your regulation Carlton list clogger.

 

[kangaspurs]

I think those names you listed are his point. They hardly send shivers down opposition spines. Wood is 23 also so not much of a youngster.

23-24 is still reasonably young for medium/tall forwards like Wood and Brown.

Particularly Brown, who started late and has improved every season he's played. He still hasn't done a proper pre-season either so there's still plenty of scope for even more improvement from him and any more would take him to a 50+ goal a year forward. I disagree with Kangaroos4eva, he's absolutely one of our best young players when you put his age and experience in context and is widely regarded as one of the more promising young forwards in the league. A lot will be asked of him next year though as the number 1 man so it will be interesting to see how he adjusts. Although, to be fair, with the demise of Petire this season he was getting the number 1 defender in the second half of this season anyway.

 

[The Donners]

Essendon list will have issues that will become very apparent during 2017 season.

What issues will become apparent next season that are not apparent now?

I suppose this is a crystal ball thread.

 

[footyfan1978]

What issues will become apparent next season that are not apparent now?

I suppose this is a crystal ball thread.

The nature of this topic is indeed about looking into where clubs are going with lists,
Question already answered in thread for other nervous Bomber fans.

 

[Andronicus]

The nature of this topic is indeed about looking into where clubs are going with lists,
Question already answered in thread for other nervous Bomber fans.

After the last 4 years, people think we are nervous about peoples thoughts we might have some issues on field?

Nah.

 

[footyfan1978]

After the last 4 years, people think we are nervous about peoples thoughts we might have some issues on field?

Don't really know. Do not really care. Your list is the issue. How nervous you lot are has no bearing on actual list spots.
Only has bearing on your reactions on forums.

 

[Cripps 'n' Blue Bloods]

Those Carlton trade ins are terrible though,most are just list cloggers and the ones that aren't we don't know because they never play due to injury.
I think North will go backwards this year but so will the Blues. I'd say theres a good chance the Blues will win yet another spoon which tells me their list is worse. I really don't know why you'd list most of those Carlton players you did and call it a good thing. All the draft picks are unknown though so it's hard to say except probably Boekhorst who you probably shouldn't have mentioned as he seems like your regulation Carlton list clogger.

We paid bugger all for most of those players, except Jaksch (who may not make it, but sometimes you have to take a risk), in a period of high list turnover. We were redressing a massive gap in age profile and culture/effort from players that have been booted for failing to live up to those very expectations.
Forgive me if I don't buy into the wooden spoon crap. People were claiming the same thing at the start of this year and that we would be worse than Essendon. We will be better than Brisbane, Gold Coast (who got a great draft haul, but will be too inexperienced), North and there abouts with Essendon, Freo, Collingwood and Port.

 

[aussierulesrules]

What non-north fans don't seem to understand is that the 'stars' we lost weren't actually stars. Wells will be a big loss, the others not so much. Wood, Hrovat, Dumont, Vickers-Willis and Clarke will be there replacements. Only Vickers-Willis doesn't have exposed AFL form but he had been excellent at VFL level and North people are confident that he can comfortably cover Firrito's output.

We aren't replacing the old boys with rookies which is a common misconception. You are right that we don't know how good these kids who haven't played are going to be but with that in mind, it seems premature to right them off completely. IMO, Durdin and Nielsen are a concern and I don't think Mountford will amount to much. The rest of them plus Simpkin have a good chance if being good players.

What I do understand is that the 5 you've lost played a combined 42 games out of a possible 45 during the 9-0 start to your season (when from memory you had few injuries), which means you're losing almost a quarter of your best 22. The 22 that got you to 9-0.

3 of these "non-stars" also came top 7 in your B&F, so whether they're "stars" or not, they were very important pieces of your team and if you think you'll be able to dip into your reserves and replace their output and quality immediately, I think you're kidding yourself. In particular it won't be easy at all to replace the speed, class, decision-making and/or skills of Harvey, Wells and Dal Santo. You have been regarded as a team who lacked speed in recent years, and you've just lost two of your quickest in Boomer and Wells and their kicking into the forward 50 was elite and will be missed in a big way, I would have thought. Not to mention Harvey's goalkicking!

The fact you fell off a cliff once you got a few injuries to the 22 who got you to 9-0 also suggests that the depth to cover the loss of 5 of your best 22- in particular 3 of the top 7 of your B&F- just isn't there.

If you guys had all this talent just waiting in the wings who are going to immediately replace these "non-stars", why didn't they do so when you started to get a number of injuries from about the middle part of the year? Is one more preseason really going to make that much difference?

I don't personally think your young stocks are as bad as some think they are, but I am concerned that if you don't take a fair sized step back in the next year or so that you'll just continue to stay around no-mans land for another several years. Never really contending really hard and never really fully bottoming out.

 

[Bazza97]

What I do understand is that the 5 you've lost played a combined 42 games out of a possible 45 during the 9-0 start to your season (when from memory you had few injuries), which means you're losing almost a quarter of your best 22. The 22 that got you to 9-0.

3 of these "non-stars" also came top 7 in your B&F, so whether they're "stars" or not, they were very important pieces of your team and if you think you'll be able to dip into your reserves and replace their output and quality immediately, I think you're kidding yourself. In particular it won't be easy at all to replace the speed, class, decision-making and/or skills of Harvey, Wells and Dal Santo. You have been regarded as a team who lacked speed in recent years, and you've just lost two of your quickest in Boomer and Wells and their kicking into the forward 50 was elite and will be missed in a big way, I would have thought. Not to mention Harvey's goalkicking!

The fact you fell off a cliff once you got a few injuries to the 22 who got you to 9-0 also suggests that the depth to cover the loss of 5 of your best 22- in particular 3 of the top 7 of your B&F- just isn't there.

If you guys had all this talent just waiting in the wings who are going to immediately replace these "non-stars", why didn't they do so when you started to get a number of injuries from about the middle part of the year? Is one more preseason really going to make that much difference?

I don't personally think your young stocks are as bad as some think they are, but I am concerned that if you don't take a fair sized step back in the next year or so that you'll just continue to stay around no-mans land for another several years. Never really contending really hard and never really fully bottoming out.

For someone who doesn't support North Melbourne I think you've nailed pretty much everything on the head. Couldn't have said it any better.

 

[Richo83]

What's more, if you take away the three who left, you're left with Tarrant, Ziebell, Gibson, Macmillan, Cunnington, Swallow and Brown. None of those guys are stars and many of these guys have been at the club for a while. Tarrant is 27, hardly young, Brown is arguably the one with the most growth to do.

 

[Kimbo]

I can remember just a few years ago when we were everyones selection in these threads..... It can turn around quickly people, it can turn around quickly....

OR, 'people have no idea, no idea'.

 

[Go_Blues!]

What a surprise
You've shown a clear hatred for Carlton in pretty much every post I've seen from you.

To be fair, there is a lot still to be exposed about Carlton. We have high hopes for a number of players on our list but of the younger guys, it is only Doc, Cripps and Weitering who have any real exposed form. There are a whole bunch of players who have work to do and who I expect to come on, but right now it is all speculation. WB, GWS, StK, Melb, all headed in the right direction. BL, are in the same boat as us, Essendon could surprise but could also disappoint, depending on their returnees. Hawkes, well who cares, they have 4 in the bag and really they are hard to doubt. Geelong are making a huge play with big risks and big rewards. Swans are Swans. Port are in trouble, Adelaide don't have the off-field mettle to contend, WCE have rolled the dice, Freo are rebuilding. North have shown enormous courage. Which leaves Richmond. They have a better list than we do but perhaps with less upside.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Dal Santo, Waite, Nahas, Ray... how's that topping up for a flag tilt going?

Looks like you pulled the ripchord and found an empty pack.

We got a lot closer than Carlton have since 1999. Sorry for trying to win the flag rather than be comfortable as a basketcase for the last 17 years.

Of course your youth is better. Your club has been a shitshow for more than a decade

 

[Bojan KantKick]

We paid bugger all for most of those players, except Jaksch (who may not make it, but sometimes you have to take a risk), in a period of high list turnover. We were redressing a massive gap in age profile and culture/effort from players that have been booted for failing to live up to those very expectations.
Forgive me if I don't buy into the wooden spoon crap. People were claiming the same thing at the start of this year and that we would be worse than Essendon. We will be better than Brisbane, Gold Coast (who got a great draft haul, but will be too inexperienced), North and there abouts with Essendon, Freo, Collingwood and Port.

Care for a sig and avi bet on Carlton finishing above North. You are delusional.