Who is the best Key Defender of the 21st Century?

[STPer18]

You fell for the bait yet again

 

[Noidnadroj]

Geelong had 10 more scoring shots and absolute inside 50 dominance that first half. Much moreso than 2020, the game where people said the same thing happened (it was a watered down version at most). Rohan was much better in 2019.

The fact is Blicavs was on the wing for Duncan, Henderson was moved from defence to full forward for Hawkins, and a zero impact small was there in place of Rohan.

Hawkins and Rohan also kicked twice as many goals as points that season. Geelong kicked 9.12 without them. It made a sizeable difference. I guess you can deny it if you want but I already spent 30 posts elaborating on it to that other lunatic. You're just coming in for a war of attrition at this point.

Wrong… Geelong had 6 more scoring shots at HT of 2019 PF - 7.8 to 4.5 .. so the margin was as it should have been ..3.3. Remember Richmond dominated early and led until the 22 minute mark of the 1st quarter.

Take it from majority of Richmond supporters … we were more concerned halfway through the second of the 2020 GF with Vlastuin out of a shortened game than halfway through the second of the 2019 PF.

You keep talking like what Hawkins, Duncan and Rohan produced in H&A games in 2019 is relevant to what they were going to produce in a cut throat final against the best team in the competition.

They had their chances in 2017 and 2020 finals and failed miserably against Richmond - 5 x finals games for a grand total of 5 x goals and goal assists. Were they more likely to produce that, or produce what they did in H&A against mostly bottom feeder clubs?

As for R12 that season when Geelong won by 67.. missing from that game but played in 2019PF:

Nankervis
Broad
Bolton
Ellis
Lambert
Short
Riewoldt
Astbury

We had huge injury issues pre-bye 2019 and turned 7-6 … then won 12 in a row to win the flag.



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[Scritchyscroony]

So the consensus I'm reading in the thread now....

Is that Gary Rohan

23

Gary Rohan

Age

33

Ht

189cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.6

2star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.5

4star

G

1.0

4star

D

8.8

2star

K

6.0

2star

HB

2.8

2star

M

3.4

3star

T

2.3

3star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

4.2

5star

G

1.2

4star

was also a better key defender than Alex Rance

Alex Rance

Age

35

Ht

194cm

Wt

95kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

8.9

3star

HB

7.7

5star

M

5.7

5star

T

2.4

4star

MG

226.9

3star

No current season stats available

D

17.0

5star

K

5.8

3star

HB

11.2

5star

M

5.0

5star

T

3.6

5star

.

Have I got that right?

 

[STPer18]

So the consensus I'm reading in the thread now....

Is that Gary Rohan was also a better key defender than Alex Rance.

Have I got that right?

Yes, and a better big game player.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

Yes, and a better big game player.

So just to recap. Now it's Scarlett, Harry Taylor, Chaplain, GAJ, Grimes AND Garry Rohan who are all better key defenders than Rance.

Ok cool. I can get onboard with that.

 

[doppleganger]

I must say I’ve misjudged these guys. I originally thought they ignored finals cause they knew their players weren’t good in them but it’s actually because they DON’T EVEN KNOW WHAT GOOD FINALS PERFORMANCE IS!!!

You have it backwards sweeper.

We ignore people who blindly quote "player rankings" because they are no different to supercoach scores.

We have seen good finals performances - Houli 2017 GF was a belter. We have seen embarrassing finals, sir Alex 2018.

Player ratings will tell you Rance was better

 

[doppleganger]

So just to recap. Now it's Scarlett, Harry Taylor, Chaplain, GAJ, Grimes AND Garry Rohan who are all better key defenders than Rance.

Ok cool. I can get onboard with that.

If you check the stats that matter - disposals, marks and coaches votes - add T.Stewart as another who is better than Rance.

 

[Mr Meow]

Brian Lake

Brian Lake

Age

42

Ht

195cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

9.4

4star

HB

5.3

4star

M

6.5

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

163.0

3star

No current season stats available

D

4.6

1star

K

2.6

1star

HB

2.0

2star

M

1.0

1star

T

0.6

3star

has also had stronger finals than Rance.

And McGovern.

Chad Cornes as an intercepting CHB had some excellent finals. So did Leppitsch actually.

Let's not forget Fletcher, Rutten or Andrews.

I'd like to make sure they get their dues.

Is there a chance Zac Dawson

Zac Dawson

Age

38

Ht

197cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.0

3star

K

3.4

1star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.7

4star

T

1.5

3star

MG

34.4

1star

No current season stats available

D

8.0

2star

K

3.0

1star

HB

5.0

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

1.4

4star

has kept his opponent to 2 goals/assists or less in a higher proportion of his finals? I absolutely wouldn't rule it out.

 

[Mr Meow]

Fadge what were Presti and Clement's finals like? From memory Maxwell wasn't a scrub either.

More Rance like, or closer to Scarlett/Taylor/Glass/Leppitsch big game defensive work?

 

[Fadge]

Fadge what were Presti and Clement's finals like? From memory Maxwell wasn't a scrub either.

More Rance like, or closer to Scarlett/Taylor/Glass/Leppitsch big game defensive work?

They all lifted to defend when required.

Check out Maxwell's last quarter in the 2010 Grand Final. One of the key reasons we got out of the first Grand Final with a draw.

Presti was the consummate defender. Player Ratings wouldn't have liked him, but opposition forwards hated him.

 

[Fadge]

RUNVS - any chance you can update the poll results to provide visibility of who is voting?

 

[RUNVS]

RUNVS - any chance you can update the poll results to provide visibility of who is voting?

I could try but I am pretty sure if I do it might reset the poll.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

RUNVS - any chance you can update the poll results to provide visibility of who is voting?

Fadge beside himself because he has already contacted everyone he knows to vote for Scarlett and Scarlett is losing share daily while Rance is gaining on him. Fadge not Trump-like, calling for a recount.

Scarlett vote share after a big start when the shills rallied their numbers:

 

[Mr Meow]

Fadge beside himself because he has already contacted everyone he knows to vote for Scarlett and Scarlett is losing share daily while Rance is gaining on him. Fadge not Trump-like, calling for a recount.

It's very curious that you are doing daily updates after an early rally call.

Since you brought it up (and demand we take notice) we've had 2 or 3 votes a day trickling in, all for Rance. Quite clearly "the neutrals are being won over" while you finally feel vindicated. Nevermind that the 4 frequent Tigers fans of this thread have been ridiculed on a daily basis.

You even had your Trump reference on auto queue.

This is what happens when they no longer run Bingo on a regular basis for the declining geriatrics, I suppose. Don't worry, my grandad used to do some pretty embarrassing things too.

 

[Noidnadroj]

So the consensus I'm reading in the thread now....

Is that Gary Rohan

23

Gary Rohan

Age

33

Ht

189cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.6

2star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.5

4star

G

1.0

4star

D

8.8

2star

K

6.0

2star

HB

2.8

2star

M

3.4

3star

T

2.3

3star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

4.2

5star

G

1.2

4star

was also a better key defender than Alex Rance

Alex Rance

Age

35

Ht

194cm

Wt

95kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

8.9

3star

HB

7.7

5star

M

5.7

5star

T

2.4

4star

MG

226.9

3star

No current season stats available

D

17.0

5star

K

5.8

3star

HB

11.2

5star

M

5.0

5star

T

3.6

5star

.

Have I got that right?

Correct. And also that Ivan Lendl wouldn’t have been torched in the closely fought 2004PF as Scarlett was.


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[Noidnadroj]

When Scarlett didn’t have depth of quality help in the backline … 2000-2006…. Geelong made it to a PF just once. And in the 2004 PF Scarlett got torched and was arguably the worst player on the field in a narrow 9–point loss.

From 2007 onwards when Scarlett had half a dozen AA friends keeping him company, the team prospered.

From 2011-2017 Rance didn’t have a single defender from Richmond deemed worthy of even an AA nomination, much less a selection. Yet still Richmond made finals for the first time in 12-years in 2013, and won 15/12/15/8/15 (flag) from 2013-2017.

All with not a single other defender receiving an AA nomination. If that doesn’t show you how good Rance was when doing all the heavy lifting himself then nothing will.

Scarlett was never able to take his team past a PF until the defensive AA help came along by the truckload.


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[H00t]

When Scarlett didn’t have depth of quality help in the backline … 2000-2006…. Geelong made it to a PF just once. And in the 2004 PF Scarlett got torched and was arguably the worst player on the field in a narrow 9–point loss.

From 2007 onwards when Scarlett had half a dozen AA friends keeping him company, the team prospered.

From 2011-2017 Rance didn’t have a single defender from Richmond deemed worthy of even an AA nomination, much less a selection. Yet still Richmond made finals for the first time in 12-years in 2013, and won 15/12/15/8/15 (flag) from 2013-2017.

All with not a single other defender receiving an AA nomination. If that doesn’t show you how good Rance was when doing all the heavy lifting himself then nothing will.

Scarlett was never able to take his team past a PF until the defensive AA help came along by the truckload.


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Richmond 2011-2016 finals wins = 0

But knock Geelong and Scarlett for reaching a PF

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

When Scarlett didn’t have depth of quality help in the backline … 2000-2006…. Geelong made it to a PF just once. And in the 2004 PF Scarlett got torched and was arguably the worst player on the field in a narrow 9–point loss.

From 2007 onwards when Scarlett had half a dozen AA friends keeping him company, the team prospered.

From 2011-2017 Rance didn’t have a single defender from Richmond deemed worthy of even an AA nomination, much less a selection. Yet still Richmond made finals for the first time in 12-years in 2013, and won 15/12/15/8/15 (flag) from 2013-2017.

All with not a single other defender receiving an AA nomination. If that doesn’t show you how good Rance was when doing all the heavy lifting himself then nothing will.

Scarlett was never able to take his team past a PF until the defensive AA help came along by the truckload.


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I think this is the argument equivalent of scraping through the bottom of the barrel.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

Richmond made finals for the first time in 12-years in 2013, and...

made history by being the first team to lose a final to the team that finished 9th.

Aaaaand....Waite pantsed Rance.

Good memories, thanks for bringing up.

 

[Mr Meow]

When Scarlett didn’t have depth of quality help in the backline … 2000-2006…. Geelong made it to a PF just once. And in the 2004 PF Scarlett got torched and was arguably the worst player on the field in a narrow 9–point loss.

From 2007 onwards when Scarlett had half a dozen AA friends keeping him company, the team prospered.

From 2011-2017 Rance didn’t have a single defender from Richmond deemed worthy of even an AA nomination, much less a selection. Yet still Richmond made finals for the first time in 12-years in 2013, and won 15/12/15/8/15 (flag) from 2013-2017.

All with not a single other defender receiving an AA nomination. If that doesn’t show you how good Rance was when doing all the heavy lifting himself then nothing will.

Scarlett was never able to take his team past a PF until the defensive AA help came along by the truckload.


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Another swing and a miss.

Please send in an even more desperate effort shortly.

 

[doppleganger]

Bahahahahahaha

When Scarlett didn’t have depth of quality help in the backline … 2000-2006…. Geelong made it to a PF just once. And in the 2004 PF Scarlett got torched and was arguably the worst player on the field in a narrow 9–point loss.

From 2007 onwards when Scarlett had half a dozen AA friends keeping him company, the team prospered.

From 2011-2017 Rance didn’t have a single defender from Richmond deemed worthy of even an AA nomination, much less a selection. Yet still Richmond made finals for the first time in 12-years in 2013, and won 15/12/15/8/15 (flag) from 2013-2017.

All with not a single other defender receiving an AA nomination. If that doesn’t show you how good Rance was when doing all the heavy lifting himself then nothing will.

Scarlett was never able to take his team past a PF until the defensive AA help came along by the truckload.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Bahahahahahaha

I think you posted this in the wrong thread mate, we aren’t talking about Maynard’s “block” here

But to be fair, he is a better defender than Scarlett, at least he put in effort before laying down like a wet noodle.

 

[doppleganger]

I think you posted this in the wrong thread mate, we aren’t talking about Maynard’s “block” here

Yeah, we were laughing at Noids own goal where he is being critical of a young Scarlett leading a young Cats team to a PF...something sir Alex couldn't do.

Tigers had to wait for Grimes to mature before they enjoyed a finals win.

But to be fair, he is a better defender than Scarlett, at least he put in effort before laying down like a wet noodle.

Maynard avg more disposals, tackles and pressure acts than Rance.

Good pick-up from you, can also add Maynard to the list of key defenders better than sir Alex.

 

[Captain_Bender]

Geelong supporters tend to get a little bitter about players who humiliated their club in finals

 

[Mr Meow]

Geelong supporters tend to get a little bitter about players who humiliated their club in finals

Hodge was one of my favourite players.

So was Pavlich.

And Williams.

And Matera.

And Carey.

Houli did more damage in finals against Geelong than Rance and I was always a big fan. I've always had a lot of time for Cotchin and what he did for the Tigers. Likewise Martin, I just don't think he's a GOAT contender.

Another horrific failure of a post from you.

"This person can only disagree with me if they are salty" - Prime BigFooty chimp response.