Who is the best Key Defender of the 21st Century?

[Captain_Bender]

Well for goals assists: 3.3 + 2.1 + 1.7 adds up to over 6! Take 4-6 goals from a side and they're weaker. I.e take Lynch's 5 out of that prelim and Richmond lose.

It really is baffling how you're stuck on this. Time to move on either way. I look forward for you chasing me up on it in another unrelated thread.

And I can cue your final response.

"Gary ****** Rohan" (a better finals performer than Rance)

Rohan plays Richmond would have won by more

 

[Noidnadroj]

Different game, different circumstances. Geelong 2020 were a weaker side. Finished 4th compared to 1st in H&A for starters. And missing a top 5 Brownlow player in Kelly. Nowhere near the same level of first half scoring shot dominance.

It doesn't surprise me that you know none of these things.

2017 QF Geelong had Hawkins and Duncan … got flogged. Richmond didn’t yet have Shai Bolton, Balta, Short, Baker, Lynch in the team.

2020 GF Geelong had Hawkins, Duncan and Rohan in the team… one of Richmond’s best players was knocked out in the first minute.

Geelong lost the 2019 PF as loads of their best players went AWOL in the second half. As they did in the 2017QF and 2020GF.

The combined second half scores of those 3 x finals was:

27.21 v 8.13

So Geelong could compete for a period of time, but irrespective of personnel couldn’t sustain it for anywhere near long enough.



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[Mr Meow]

2017 QF Geelong had Hawkins and Duncan … got flogged. Richmond didn’t yet have Shai Bolton, Balta, Short, Baker, Lynch in the team.

2020 GF Geelong had Hawkins, Duncan and Rohan in the team… one of Richmond’s best players was knocked out in the first minute.

Geelong lost the 2019 PF as loads of their best players went AWOL in the second half. As they did in the 2017QF and 2020GF.

The combined second half scores of those 3 x finals was:

27.21 v 8.13

So Geelong could compete for a period of time, but irrespective of personnel couldn’t sustain it for anywhere near long enough.



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Doubling down on missing the point is your specialty. You know I enjoy it so I guess....thanks for being you?

2019 was the one game where first half dominance likely would've been converted to a win with its full arsenal. Duncan kicking to Hawkins in that scenario would've been a repeat of the H&A game that year. But Geelong lacked delivery and weapons, it had no defensive cover and Scott shuffled the magnets poorly - thus the game swung.

2020 was a different story. Richmond simply outplayed a full strength Geelong over the last 2 and a bit quarters and there were only a few scoring shots difference at half time. The belief to run over them was a result of 2019; nevermind that Geelong now weren't depleted. 2019, after their 2018 prelim - Richmond were vulnerable. But not against a Geelong side missing the players to put them away. Even Mason Cox could've swung that result.

 

[Noidnadroj]

In fairness we already had the discussion and I think it'd beyond you to understand that 2019 was the one time having a full line up would've been enough. 10 more scoring shots to half time even without those 3. Add them in and it's an 8 goal lead to half time - game over. Instead Scott shuffled Henderson and then Dangerfield forward, Blicavs was out on the wing and Taylor was isolated during the comeback. So it was a double whammy as far as the influence it had on that game. Like you said, a year later it was a different story.

Don't worry, Geelong have had good fortune in some games over the years as well (2011 and 2022 both had a crocked Reid against us for starters). If you deny it when it happens you merely concede your one eyedness blinds you on any topic about your club.

Hawkins, Duncan and Rohan average 1 x goal and goal assist in finals v Richmond. Whomever played in their place in the 2019 PF would’ve provided equal if not better output than those 3 delivered in other finals v Richmond … it’s not like Geelong played 3 short. On average they’d provide 9-points of ‘value’ in a half. Less what the players who took their place provided ….

But in your world a 21-point HT margin turns into 48-points.


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[Noidnadroj]

Doubling down on missing the point is your specialty. You know I enjoy it so I guess....thanks for being you?

2019 was the one game where first half dominance likely would've been converted to a win with its full arsenal. Duncan kicking to Hawkins in that scenario would've been a repeat of the H&A game that year. But Geelong lacked delivery and weapons, it had no defensive cover and Scott shuffled the magnets poorly - thus the game swung.

2020 was a different story. Richmond simply outplayed a full strength Geelong over the last 2 and a bit quarters and there were only a few scoring shots difference at half time. The belief to run over them was a result of 2019; nevermind that Geelong now weren't depleted. 2019, after their 2018 prelim - Richmond were vulnerable. But not against a Geelong side missing the players to put them away. Even Mason Cox could've swung that result.

How did Danger go in second half of 2019 PF? GAJ? You lost as your guns went AWOL.


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[Captain_Bender]

Hawkins, Duncan and Rohan average 1 x goal and goal assist in finals v Richmond. Whomever played in their place in the 2019 PF would’ve provided equal if not better output than those 3 delivered in other finals v Richmond … it’s not like Geelong played 3 short. On average they’d provide 9-points of ‘value’ in a half. Less what the players who took their place provided ….

But in your world a 21-point HT margin turns into 48-points.


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If Hawkins played I doubt that Kelly and Miers would have had as much scoreboard impact anyway

 

[Mr Meow]

Hawkins, Duncan and Rohan average 1 x goal and goal assist in finals v Richmond. Whomever played in their place in the 2019 PF would’ve provided equal if not better output than those 3 delivered in other finals v Richmond … it’s not like Geelong played 3 short. On average they’d provide 9-points of ‘value’ in a half. Less what the players who took their place provided ….

But in your world a 21-point HT margin turns into 48-points.


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Geelong had 10 more scoring shots and absolute inside 50 dominance that first half. Much moreso than 2020, the game where people said the same thing happened (it was a watered down version at most). Rohan was much better in 2019.

The fact is Blicavs was on the wing for Duncan, Henderson was moved from defence to full forward for Hawkins, and a zero impact small was there in place of Rohan.

Hawkins and Rohan also kicked twice as many goals as points that season. Geelong kicked 9.12 without them. It made a sizeable difference. I guess you can deny it if you want but I already spent 30 posts elaborating on it to that other lunatic. You're just coming in for a war of attrition at this point.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

Yeah I think Grimes is the best Richmond key defender I've seen this century.

Still not in Scarlett's league though.

 

[RUNVS]

I'll be honest. When I created this thread I was not expecting 102 pages of discussion in a month.

 

[Captain_Bender]

Geelong had 10 more scoring shots and absolute inside 50 dominance that first half. Much moreso than 2020, the game where people said the same thing happened (it was a watered down version at most). Rohan was much better in 2019.

The fact is Blicavs was on the wing for Duncan, Henderson was moved from defence to full forward for Hawkins, and a zero impact small was there in place of Rohan.

Hawkins and Rohan also kicked twice as many goals as points that season. Geelong kicked 9.12 without them. It made a sizeable difference. I guess you can deny it if you want but I already spent 30 posts elaborating on it to that other lunatic. You're just coming in for a war of attrition at this point.

Geelong played a good second quarter that's all, it was obvious that Richmond were rope a doping Geelong during that quarter too

 

[Mr Meow]

How did Danger go in second half of 2019 PF? GAJ? You lost as your guns went AWOL.


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Dangerfield got moved forward in a coaching blunder and struggled. Our 34 year old forward pocket had 21 touches and a goal for the night - a better effort than at least 5 of Rance's 8 finals.

And that's the whole point. Duncan was our best finals performer a year later. Rohan had 3 plus goals/assists in finals in 2020 and 2022. Hawkins was our best forward by a country mile and was early on in a 5 year AA run. Collectively they swung a lot of games Geelong's way that year that would've had the result reversed if they were all missing.

NOW...to get things back on topic. Take Rance out of Richmond finals and they go 6-1 on the way to back to back flags. Inconsequential, at best, to Richmond functioning superbly as a team in big matches.

 

[Mr Meow]

Geelong played a good second quarter that's all, it was obvious that Richmond were rope a doping Geelong during that quarter too

You still need me to give you attention? Don't you have a wife or a dog for that?

 

[Captain_Bender]

You still need me to give you attention? Don't you have a wife or a dog for that?

And like a fool you take the bait

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I feel bad for you letting me run rings around you like this.

Gary Ayres Award (Best Finals Player) - AFL Coaches Association Awards - AFL Coaches Association

aflcoaches.com.au

Gary Rohan: 9 coaches votes, BOG in a nail biting QF.

Graham received a single Norm Smith vote in 2017.

You tried.

Grand Final player ratings:

Jack Graham 18.2, 9.3 Average = 13.75

v

Gary "Missing Piece" Rohan 4.5, 4.5, 2.6, -0.5 = Average 2.78 and I rounded that up

 

[Mr Meow]

Grand Final player ratings:

Jack Graham 18.2, 9.3 Average = 13.75

v

Gary "Missing Piece" Rohan 4.5, 4.5, 2.6, -0.5 = Average 2.78 and I rounded that up

He said Rohan had never played a final as good as Graham's 2017 GF.

I'm not going to add anything sarcastic as it's understandable for a man of your age to misread things or not piece certain aspects together.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

I'll be honest. When I created this thread I was not expecting 102 pages of discussion in a month.

"Discussion" is being very generous

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I'll be honest. When I created this thread I was not expecting 102 pages of discussion in a month.

Half of those pages are literally Meow, Fadge and Doppleganja though. You can't count that as discussion.

 

[doppleganger]

Grand Final player ratings:

Jack Graham 18.2, 9.3 Average = 13.75

v

Gary "Missing Piece" Rohan 4.5, 4.5, 2.6, -0.5 = Average 2.78 and I rounded that up

Player ratings

The player ratings gave Houli a 7 for his 2017 GF when both coaches gave him BOG.

Supercoach scores are jusy as useful as player ratings.

 

[doppleganger]

Half of those pages are literally Meow, Fadge and Doppleganja though. You can't count that as discussion.

Get something in the hitting zone Meteor

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Player ratings

The player ratings gave Houli a 7 for his 2017 GF when both coaches gave him BOG.

Supercoach scores are jusy as useful as player ratings.

Red alert. I repeat red alert.

We have another lemming poster prepared to nail his colours to the Gary Rohan finals performance mast.

I am shocked we now have isolated 2 of these rarest of creatures. Meow and Doppleganja. Fully expecting a 3rd will be along any time soon.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Red alert. I repeat red alert.

We have another lemming poster prepared to nail his colours to the Gary Rohan finals performance mast.

I am shocked we now have isolated 2 of these rarest of creatures. Meow and Doppleganja. Fully expecting a 3rd will be along any time soon.

I must say I’ve misjudged these guys. I originally thought they ignored finals cause they knew their players weren’t good in them but it’s actually because they DON’T EVEN KNOW WHAT GOOD FINALS PERFORMANCE IS!!!

 

[STPer18]

I must say I’ve misjudged these guys. I originally thought they ignored finals cause they knew their players weren’t good in them but it’s actually because they DON’T EVEN KNOW WHAT GOOD FINALS PERFORMANCE IS!!!

The initial contention was that Jack Graham has never had a finals performance as good as Rohan's in the 2022 QF where Geelong won by just six points. It's yet to be proven wrong, but you're free to throw your hat in the ring. The bar is set at Rohan's 9 vote, 3 goal performance. Just name the game and year and we'll see how it stacks up.

Meteoric Rise and Captain Bender have been duly dispatched, but could third time be the charm?

 

[Cleansweep17]

The initial contention was that Jack Graham has never had a finals performance as good as Rohan's in the 2022 QF where Geelong won by just six points. It's yet to be proven wrong, but you're free to throw your hat in the ring. The bar is set at Rohan's 9 vote, 3 goal performance. Just name the game and year and we'll see how it stacks up.

Meteoric Rise and Captain Bender have been duly dispatched, but could third time be the charm?

Graham went 16 and 3 in the 17 GF

Rohan went 14 and 3 only in a QF

Seems pretty clear cut to me.

 

[STPer18]

Graham went 16 and 3 in the 17 GF

Rohan went 14 and 3 only in a QF

Seems pretty clear cut to me.

1 coaches' vote to Rohan's 9.
6th best on ground to Rohan's 1st.

Clear cut win to the Great Gary Rohan.

 

[Cleansweep17]

1 coaches' vote to Rohan's 9.
6th best on ground to Rohan's 1st.

Clear cut win to the Great Gary Rohan.

Great so now we can all finally agree Dustys peak is greater than GAJs as he has the record coaches votes in a single season. Seems pretty clear cut as you said, I’m good with that. You fell for the bait yet again