Banter Who will be better in 2024? Carlton or Collingwood? Part 2

[Fadge]

That's a losers attitude mate, Steven Bradbury says hello.

No, it's a realists attitude.

We were a rung below the better teams in the comp that year, and we were outclassed in our Preliminary Finals.

In the same way Carlton were in 2023.

 

[Fadge]

He’s a Major Contender!

( Ps I wonder why they use a word like “major”)?

Pretty sure we covered that in year 5 - let’s try again below;

Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
noun

1. a person or group competing with others to achieve something.
   "the major contenders in the football championship"

Oh, so you're now using the term 'major contender'?

That's interesting, after you originally stated 'at the start of the year, every team in the competition are contenders'....

 

[Sector 7G]

I think you're actually getting there with this.

Take 2024 Hawthorn for example.

They could win the next 11 games and win the premiership, or win through to a close Grand Final loss, or close Preliminary Final loss - at which time we can conclude they 'contended' for the premiership.

But that is not likely to happen, so the most likely outcome will be that they won't contend for the premiership.

See we are slowly teasing out the requirements to be a contender. So if a team is not likely to win a Prelim they are not contenders or is there a percentage lower 50% that they can be considered a contender. Carlton is 2.15 does that make us a contender or is it just Sydney who are 1.50

I am still not sure how losing a close Prelim make you a contender given you lost. In 2022 Collingwood wasn't a contender when they were 6 goals down but became a contender when they lost to Sydney by a point.

 

[Robertio]

No, it's a realists attitude.

We were a rung below the better teams in the comp that year, and we were outclassed in our Preliminary Finals.

In the same way Carlton were in 2023.

I just look at it differently but because a team or person is just not quite good enough you never give up, things can happen.

 

[Fadge]

So losing a final by 5 points made them a contender despite an average season up to them. Not sure how that makes sense as previously they wouldn't have been a contender.

Oh my.

Of course losing a Preliminary Final by 5 points to the team that wins the flag the following week by 119 points makes that team a contender.

As I've consistently stated, the home and away season is about positioning yourself to have the opportunity to contend, if you play well enough when it matters.

Hence why we can't foresee who the contenders are, until they actually contend.

First finals series in a decade for you guys in 2023, you have some learning to do...

 

[CCurnow3votes]

Oh, so you're now using the term 'major contender'?

That's interesting, after you originally stated 'at the start of the year, every team in the competition are contenders'....

Check the DICHUNAREE ( maybe phonetics will work)?

No sure how else to ….?

Again try to read below - if you need help with the BIG WORDS let us know;

Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
noun

1. a person or group competing with others to achieve something.
   "the major contenders in the football championship"

 

[Fadge]

I just look at it differently but because a team or person is just not quite good enough you never give up, things can happen.

Well, I would expect the players who took to the field on the day had that attitude, but as an observer it was clear to me that they were not up to it, and it eventuated that way.

 

[Sector 7G]

Review my list.

There are multiple times that Collingwood played in Preliminary Finals but we weren't legitimately contending for the premiership - 2009 and 2012.

How about 2018 that was probably the biggest Prelim upset since 1999? Pies weren't a contender but then became a contender. Goes to show you are a contender until your not.

 

[bradfisher14]

So let me get this straight, you can only say that a person or entity has done something with the benefit of hindsight?

 

[Fadge]

How about 2018 that was probably the biggest Prelim upset since 1999? Pies weren't a contender but then became a contender. Goes to show you are a contender until your not.

You're definitely getting there.

I would term it 'You're not a contender until you contend'. Which is what I've been saying all along....

 

[Fadge]

So let me get this straight, you can only say that a person or entity has done something with the benefit of hindsight?

Well it would be pretty hard to say a person or entity has 'done something' before they have done it...

 

[Worm4]

Oh my.

Of course losing a Preliminary Final by 5 points to the team that wins the flag the following week by 119 points makes that team a contender.

As I've consistently stated, the home and away season is about positioning yourself to have the opportunity to contend, if you play well enough when it matters.

Hence why we can't foresee who the contenders are, until they actually contend.

First finals series in a decade for you guys in 2023, you have some learning to do...

But, at what point were they contending ?
You can't say they were a contender after they lost a prelim, and their opponent went on to win large.
So, were they contending during the prelim, or before ?

 

[bradfisher14]

What an odd way of looking at things.

 

[Fadge]

But, at what point were they contending ?
You can't say they were a contender after they lost a prelim, and their opponent went on to win large.
So, were they contending during the prelim, or before ?

Collingwood were a contender in 2007 as a result of running the eventual premiers to 5 points in the Preliminary Final.

It's really not that hard...

 

[Fadge]

What an odd way of looking at things.

What? To only credit people with doing something after they've done it?

'Hey bradfisher14, can you pay me $700,000 for the house that I might build for you?'

 

[Sector 7G]

Oh my.

Of course losing a Preliminary Final by 5 points to the team that wins the flag the following week by 119 points makes that team a contender.

As I've consistently stated, the home and away season is about positioning yourself to have the opportunity to contend, if you play well enough when it matters.

Hence why we can't foresee who the contenders are, until they actually contend.

First finals series in a decade for you guys in 2023, you have some learning to do...

So we are starting to get close to understanding. You are only a contender if you are able lose a Prelim by less than a kick or is there more flexibility to this? Maybe be within 2 goals with 5 minutes to go?

 

[bradfisher14]

What? To only credit people with doing something after they've done it?

No, to say that you can't make predictions about things.

 

[Worm4]

Collingwood were a contender in 2007 as a result of running the eventual premiers to 5 points in the Preliminary Final.

It's really not that hard...

Nope, don't agree.
You can't contend after the fact. You must contend during. There's no hindsight contention.

 

[JustaBattler]

You aren't a contender until you are ...uh huh and then you are a contender who might not win but you have to be a contender to win but winning can also make you a contender who won just like a loss can make you a contender who lost.


this is why being a contender is very important!

and guess what? Collingwod has been a contender more than any other team in the history of all histories

QED!

another lesson in FudgeyBSmatics.

 

[Worm4]

I contend that this thread be closed as collingwood aren't anywhere near in contention to contend

 

[Fadge]

No, to say that you can't make predictions about things.

I've never said you can't make predictions about things - you might have me confused with a few of your Carlton mates on that front.

But if you're saying 'I predict such and such a club to be a premiership contender', that's all well and good, and very different to saying after round 17 (for example) 'Such and such a club are a premiership contender'.

 

[Sector 7G]

But, at what point were they contending ?
You can't say they were a contender after they lost a prelim, and their opponent went on to win large.
So, were they contending during the prelim, or before ?

They were never contending but they were after the fact a contender. Or maybe the Leigh Matthews rule applies goals less than minutes remaining, but then how many goals is the cut off? Pies were down 6 goals against Swans in 2022 but were still contenders. Guess we just have to apply common sense. 5 goals with 5 minutes to play maybe . Hey that would make Carlton a contender last year. That can't be right

 

[Arr0w]

Multiple pages to say I have no idea of who is contending

Did someone buy fadge a bigger shovel?

 

[JustaBattler]

I contend that this thread be closed as collingwood aren't anywhere near in contention to contend

WRONG - because you don't know who is going to contend until you know who is going to contend - and anyway there are a lot of games to be played still so it is contentious to suggest that contenders are already settled.

you need to get up to speed with FudgeyBSmatics.

 

[Arr0w]

Fadge stop waffling

Which teams do you currently have as flag contenders

It's a very simple question