- Mar 7, 2006
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- Collingwood
He’s just not up to AFL standard.
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AFLW 2024 - Round 3 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Banter Who will be better in 2024? Carlton or Collingwood? Part 2
- Thread starter Wosh
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Banter threads are not to be taken too seriously. Have fun. Let others have fun.
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Elixuh
See you on the 9th green at 9
Can you really say you're better if you lose to the other side twice in a season?
Well you could, couldn't you.
Yes, your personal view, no matter how much you boil it down and dissect you can ignore facts all you like but they're still facts.
Accept it or don't, it doesn't matter.
Depends how many times you play a team, and whether all games were live for both teams etc.
If you play a team 5 times and lose to them twice, you are still better than them.
If one team has nothing to play for, a dead rubber for them where the result doesn't matter...only a simpleton would think "winning" such a game meant anything.
So yeah their would be instances where a team could lose twice to a team and still be able to say they were better than them.
None apply to Carlton v Collingwood in 2024, Carlton have gone 0 from 2 in games against the Pies that Carlton were desperate to win.
I'll give what I get
Elixuh
See you on the 9th green at 9
Be the bet…nvm
For the purposes of this thread, 'better' was defined as the team that finishes 'higher' in the 'part 1' 2023 version and I don't think there was any modification to that for 'part 2' so there is no reasonable reason to presume the original definition has changed.
The end result will be conclusively determined by objective measures so long as the team that finishes higher on the ladder at the end of the H&A season also finishes higher after adjusting for finals (or cannot finish lower regardless of remaining finals result adjustments).
It's got to be somewhat of a hollow technical 'win' in any scenario where the team higher on the ladder lost the head to head matches 0-2 and wasn't far ahead for season W/L and didn't do anything in the finals, though.
That all said, that definition was not specific enough to remove the ambiguity of H&A ladder positions vs. finals adjusted if one team finished higher on the ladder at the end of the H&A season and the other finished higher at the end of finals.
E.g. in 2023, Collingwood's H&A season ladder position and finals adjusted position were both higher. But if Carlton finished higher after adjusting for finals, there is an argument for either side having finished 'higher' according to the way the term was defined, but it is more subjective in some scenarios while there is at least one most would have to agree puts it beyond doubt:
Blues last final result: H&A position -> finals adjusted position
B1. Lost PF: 5th -> 4th or 3rd
B2. Lost GF: 5th -> 2nd
B3. Won GF: 5th -> 1st
vs. Magpies:
M1. Lost SF: 1st -> 5th
M2. Lost PF: 1st -> 3rd
M3. Lost GF: 1st -> 2nd
Arguments that could be made (B1 vs. M2/3: N/A)
B1 vs. M1: Most subjective with a high correlation between opinions and supporter bias, and likely more than an insignificant number of unbiased opinions ion the less popular side of the argument
B2 vs. M1/M2: Subjective (less so M1 than M2) but harder to see there being a significant number of opinions in favor of the Pies coming from people without supporter bias.
B3 vs. M1/M2/M3: Tiny amounts of subjective wiggle room for the most biased of Pies supporters to argue (relentlessly none the less) in favor of the pies, but likely such a small a minority that the majority opinion would be proof enough that the criteria is not ambiguous regardless of H&A vs. finals adjusted position flip scenarios at least when it comes to one of the sides winning the premiership.
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Irish BlueBagger
Ophidian Old Boys Season 37 Grand Final Winner
It's such an open season a flag winner could come from outside the top four this year.
We just need to make sure we have our finals tickets booked in the three remaining home and away games.
Oh and according to someone on the Carlton cheer squads Facebook page, some Pies supporters were being very abusive to them to the extent that they felt nervous about cheering and celebrating Carlton goals.
Of course we have our share of idiots as well but poor form that was by those Pies supporters whoever they were.
We just need to make sure we have our finals tickets booked in the three remaining home and away games.
Oh and according to someone on the Carlton cheer squads Facebook page, some Pies supporters were being very abusive to them to the extent that they felt nervous about cheering and celebrating Carlton goals.
Of course we have our share of idiots as well but poor form that was by those Pies supporters whoever they were.
- Mar 7, 2006
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LOL, you obviously weren’t in the stands after Nick Daicos kicked the sealer round 8.
Carlton supporter abuse was next level and absolute vile.
Irish BlueBagger
Ophidian Old Boys Season 37 Grand Final Winner
I did say we have our share of idiots as well mate.
If North beat you twice, are they better than you?
This is why I don't go anymore - too many dickheads on both sides and my kids don't need to be exposed to that.
Even up in corporate where i have access to tickets year round - dickheads at all levels
It's called a hypothetical.
This is true, there are ferals at all levels.
The beauty with the box though, is if any of my clients or guests have too much to drink, or get out of hand, we can just kick their arses out.
Admittedly 2018 GF, that was nearly me
.I had to excuse myself and come back after I got recomposed.
Swore I would never go to a Collingwood GF again, as more enjoyable as a neutral.
VinnieB
Norm Smith Medallist
- Oct 28, 2021
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Yeah makes sense. Although if they are 17th and the team they beat twice is 4th, probably not.
So you're admitting that a body of work over an entire season should take precedence over two games?
VinnieB
Norm Smith Medallist
- Oct 28, 2021
- 7,038
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- AFL Club
- Collingwood
If there’s a significant disparity between the 2 teams in win/loss. You know, just as I said. No need to be selective. Even you should be able to read 2 sentences.
If we want to be specific between Collingwood and Carlton, well it’s as clear as day that the Pies are better than Carlton.
You lost both games and there isn’t 5+ wins between the 2 clubs.
Elixuh
See you on the 9th green at 9
Yes. The fact that we’re on desperate hypotheticals must mean Carlton’s season is going down the drain. Top 2 was there for the taking. Womp womp.
Good old Carlton fans
If...
Next year...
1970s
Rinse and repeat.
Meanwhile, the Pies just keep beating them.
- Oct 4, 2018
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Collingwood logic:
1 game - not enough to go off
2 games - perfect
23 games - not relevant
Brilliant stuff
1 game - not enough to go off
2 games - perfect
23 games - not relevant
Brilliant stuff
Robertio
Spotswood Guinness Bar manager
How can you be sure,? They didn't reload this year.
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