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Apologies. Thought this was a banter thread... Almost the exact same title. Wrong assumption I guess.
Prediction Who will be better in 2025? Carlton or Hawthorn
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Apologies. Thought this was a banter thread... Almost the exact same title. Wrong assumption I guess.
- Mar 25, 2019
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Maybe they'll change it when Hokball comes off the rails this yearNo worries- the mods will label it "banter" if anything changes.
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Or when Carlton implodes. Which is more likely given the last 25 years
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Hawks are going to be without Lewis or Dear for a large chunk of the season and their midfield is average at best compared to the rest of the league.Or when Carlton implodes. Which is more likely given the last 25 years
I'm tipping they miss the 8 this year as teams will have put some more time into combatting their game plan and their list isn't as strong as some of the other finals contenders + a tougher draw.
As for the Blues imploding? Could happen, but they've got the softest draw in footy next year and far more established talent on their list... So I'd have it as fairly unlikely.
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Id be willing to put my account on us not finishing bottom 4 in 2025.
More chance of me rooting Sydney Sweeney on the weekend.
Hawthorn was without Lewis last year, didn't impact us too much.
Dear was a revelation, but the trade off is we have 2 defenders coming in which frees up Sicily to play forward
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It does, but I've never rated Sicily up fwd much. Prolific down back, average up fwd.
He faded in and out as a kid, since his move to defence, every time he's gone forward he's been able to kick 2-3 goals very quickly. Whether or not that translates to full games is a different story, but he's at least on the field. It's amazing that people rate a couple finally injured forward in Lewis above a player like sicily
Hokball is forever like Hulkamania and Ricky Martin!!
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Hawks and won’t be particularly close
Technically making a prelim means you made the top 4.
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Naah. I have posted this before. To make top 4 u have to be consistent over the whole season. The season is long and arduous and takes no prisoners. Youngster do not last the whole season unless they r managed. A team has to be resilient to the opposition and to injury and show up every week to play.
Top 4 doesn't happen on a run of 2 or 3 wins like making a prelim. It's the pinnacle of the season prior to finals and is the aim of every premiership aspirant.
Hawthorn will be aiming for top 4. Once u get there ure options of winning it all open up. A long season to go to get back to finals let alone top 4. I can't wait
Still, Carlton were 10 points off 4th after the 2023 H&A season. A good finals run isn't the same as being in the top 4 teams all season, or very close to it.
For reference, the 2 sides who won a flag from outside the top 4 this century finished 2 points and 4 points off top 4. Half a win and a win respectively. So they were a fraction off being top 4 teams before their finals series began. That mark or above is where Carlton need to be aiming - not having a 13 win season and then a miraculous finals run.
And there's basic probabilities. Only one side who had not been a perennial top 4 team the previous seasons, has won it from outside the top 4 in this finals system. Bulldogs 2016. Brisbane were coming off a grand final and a series of prelims.
As great as the Bulldogs story was, we might only see something like that a couple of times in our lifetimes. Where a team wins 4 finals on the road after doing nothing of note in the previous H&A seasons (e.g top 4 finishes).
Both sides similar finishing position after H&A
The whole point of playing this sport is to get as far as possible.
Making top 4 is making the prelims or further, there's really no debate to be had here.
A team being in top 4 for most of the year and not even making the prelims is not a top 4 team, because... you guessed it, they didn't make the top 4.
To say otherwise is a waste of time.
You either make the prelims or you don't. If a "top four side" reaches the finals and bombs in straight sets, they don't deserve to be called a top four side.
Brisbane didn't even finish top 4 in the regular H&A last year, but are classified as the top team that year because they won the premiership. I am not sure why you're debating this when finishing position in finals matter more than where you finished in the H&A season.
Macca180
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Probably Hawks. Look like they are building something that will be very successful.
Incorrect, context matters. Carlton are not aspiring to have a miraculous run of finals out of nowhere. It's time to be a proper top 4 team. 13 H&A win seasons are not a platform for premierships - find me examples in this finals format.
As I explained with Brisbane, they were coming off the back of a grand final and a handful of top 4 finishes. They were very finals hardened and were roughly a top 4 team in the comp for 5 years preceding 2025. If Carlton go on a similar run, then yes in a few years they would be a chance at a flag from 5th-8th.
So there is really only one side that has done it 5th-8th in this finals format without being heavily credentialed heading into the season: 2016 Bulldogs. Around 95% of the time you are going to need to do it the conventional ways: from the top 4, or from 5th-8th after having a bunch of top 4 finishes, prelims and a GF appearance already in the bank. Carlton have not had a Brisbane 2019-2023 run behind them.
Interesting about Dogs 2016
7th place but as you say only a game off top4
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