Prediction Who will be better in 2025? Carlton or Hawthorn

[matey]

The big question mark I have is whether they challenge without a good key forward. Last year the small forward approach worked well but not sure if that's sustainable at the pointy end

Yeah Dear was just walking at training but was awesome seeing Lewis yesterday. He has significantly stepped up since pre Xmas. Was doing repeat sprints at high intensity and first time saw him doing some running with a change in direction. It was moderate but awesome to see ….. other than just the straight line stuff. Hopefully both will be available with a big chuck of the season left.

But recruiting Barrass and Battle could be a blessing in disguise as it gives Sam options. Siss, Weddle and Battle can all play tall and we are still hoping that Ramma or Skaife can develop/step up and play a role to at least bring the ball to ground for Wiz/Moore/Macdonald/Ginni and co but agree it’s definitely a question mark.

 

[peetoo]

If it’s all about the draft picks, the take should be the hawks can aim high and not worry that a higher finish undermines their draft order.

It’s more of a watch for eagles, but they still have their own r1 r2 picks

Carlton’s best 2025 pick appears to be Brisbanes r2

In fact Carlton’s 2024 changes look like a team rebuilding and hawthorns look like a team topping up

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Absolutely.

'So much talent'!

Cripps
Curnow
Weitering
McKay
Walsh
De Koning

Then who?

Saad
Newman
Cerra
Hewett
Docherty
Acres
E.Hollands
Williams
Fogarty
McGovern
Silvagni

Let me guess though... All D graders to you?

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Only Cripps makes it a contest, otherwise Hawks by so much

Please expand on this? How so?

 

[TheFourPillars]

Yep we had Gunston play on Weitering to limit his influence

Hey WalshistheGOAT I am not sure why you are laughing at a fact based statement. Or did you not pay enough attention at the game?

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Hey WalshistheGOAT I am not sure why you are laughing at a fact based statement. Or did you not pay enough attention at the game?

Nah I went to the beach

 

[JustaBattler]

Hawthorn top 8.

Carlton bottom 6.

So Hawthorn.

I'm amazed you could find 5 Clubs that might do worse than Carlton...

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

This isn't the mic drop you think it is, respectfully.

Hewett is a good player, but is he necessarily better than Worpel?

Newcombe and Day aren't ahead of Cripps and Walsh, and I'm more than happy to admit that. However, I'd argue that the former are more dynamic and are also both younger with scope for a lot more improvement.
Let's revisit that in a couple of years time.
For 2025, sure, you'd take the Blues pair.

Jagga Smith hasn't played a game yet.
For that reason alone I'd be taking Mackenzie in particular, if we're only discussing 2025.

I like Cerra, but far out it would be nice if he could stay on the park for an extended run. From a durability standpoint, I'm sure many would be happy to pick Nash or Worpel before him.

As for the rucks, TDK and Meek are such different players. They also have a relatively small sample size of looking like genuine A-grade rucks.
Toss of the coin. Do you want the athletic type who can work over his opponent in general play, or the Gorilla ruck who can win the strength battle and has very underrated skills?

Respectfully, in what way are Newcombe and Day 'more dynamic' than Cripps and Walsh who out perform them in almost every way.

Hewett and Worpel pretty much cancel one another out, both simple work horse inside mids.

Nash>Cerra? If Cerra stays on the park whatsoever he's comfortably the better player.

TDK = Meek... I like the big mountain so I'll say fair play, but I think most would acknowledge TDK has considerably more upside than Meek.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I'm amazed you could find 5 Clubs that might do worse than Carlton...

We've gone from 17th, to 14th, to bottom 6 now... On current trajectory we should be in his top 4 estimations by March!

Maybe Fadge has had second thoughts on the Blues after he realized his statement that Cox was better than Walsh was as stupid as it sounds.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Nah I went to the beach

ok so just having a laugh gotcha

 

[Foxman98]

Saad
Newman
Cerra
Hewett
Docherty
Acres
E.Hollands
Williams
Fogarty
McGovern
Silvagni

Let me guess though... All D graders to you?

Meh runs a lot but doesn't hurt teams
Seagulls a lot no real impact
Always injured
Genuinely can't kick
Ripper bloke but always sadly injured
Honest battler
Again can't kick
Always injured and little impact when fit
Role player at best
Always injured and Lazy (Should thank his brother for his career)
Role player at best

So of that list the only non D graders are always injured or don't impact games

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

ok so just having a laugh gotcha

No, I actually went to the beach that day. From memory after quarter time.

I'm sure some of ur Hawks brethren in the game day thread would remember it.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Meh runs a lot but doesn't hurt teams
Seagulls a lot no real impact
Always injured
Genuinely can't kick
Ripper bloke but always sadly injured
Honest battler
Again can't kick
Always injured and little impact when fit
Role player at best
Always injured and Lazy (Should thank his brother for his career)
Role player at best

So of that list the only non D graders are always injured or don't impact games

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen posted. How are we meant to take stuff like Newman is a seagull and Elijah Hollands can't kick seriously?

 

[carlton_99]

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen posted. How are we meant to take stuff like Newman is a seagull and Elijah Hollands can't kick seriously?

It's actually a good thing - Carlton have apparently made back to back finals series with only five or six decent players with the rest actually being a detriment to the team to this point. Any improvement from those other 39 players on the list should have us as a shoe in for the flag.

 

[TheFourPillars]

No, I actually went to the beach that day. From memory after quarter time.

I'm sure some of ur Hawks brethren in the game day thread would remember it.

Yeah that's fine like I said u have no definitive statement on this as you didn't see it. So my statement just educated you

 

[Foxman98]

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen posted. How are we meant to take stuff like Newman is a seagull and Elijah Hollands can't kick seriously?

So you could only pick 2 of the lot?

Potentially have confused Elijah with his brother but again he is a role player at best,

Yes Newman is a seagull he takes kick ins and chips around the back

 

[peetoo]

Saad
Newman
Cerra
Hewett
Docherty
Acres
E.Hollands
Williams
Fogarty
McGovern
Silvagni

Let me guess though... All D graders to you?

Draftguru has a go at rating them bs and cs

Carlton Playing List for 2025 - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

 

[peetoo]

So much depends on carlton not having the injuries they had in 2024

But if we are talking full fit lists then Dear, Lewis, Blanck are in the Hawks

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

So you could only pick 2 of the lot?

Potentially have confused Elijah with his brother but again he is a role player at best,

Yes Newman is a seagull he takes kick ins and chips around the back

I could find issue with pretty much every single one tbh.

• Saad a non damaging former All Australian who gets a defensive tag on him just about every game... Makes sense...
• Cerra always injured even though outside of 2024 it really hasn't been an issue.
• Hewett also can't kick despite being a perfectly reliable kick.
• Acres a "battler"
• Docherty always injured, other than his 3 knees he's never really had any issues with durability. But that one's not too bad.
• Always injured yes, little impact when fit? Rubbish
• Role player yes, still a good player so not sure what point you're making
• Maybe 5 years ago, the last 3-4 years McGovern has been a quality player down back and actually keeps himself in good condition. Another clueless take.
• Same as Fogarty

 

[carlton_99]

Draftguru has a go at rating them bs and cs

Carlton Playing List for 2025 - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

Draftguru in some cases has players that have played two games of AFL football with equal ratings to those that have played 150 games. They are not gospel. Bottom line is you don't make back to back finals series with only five or six good players on your list. This is AFL not the NBA.

 

[Foxman98]

I could find issue with pretty much every single one tbh.

• Saad a non damaging former All Australian who gets a defensive tag on him just about every game... Makes sense...
• Cerra always injured even though outside of 2024 it really hasn't been an issue.
• Hewett also can't kick despite being a perfectly reliable kick.
• Acres a "battler"
• Docherty always injured, other than his 3 knees he's never really had any issues with durability. But that one's not too bad.
• Always injured yes, little impact when fit? Rubbish
• Role player yes, still a good player so not sure what point you're making
• Maybe 5 years ago, the last 3-4 years McGovern has been a quality player down back and actually keeps himself in good condition. Another clueless take.
• Same as Fogarty

Saad was AA 2 seasons ago doesn't get tagged anymore
Cerra has a hamstring every second week
Hewett can't make the distance on a set shot from 40
Yes Acres effort is fine his output is on and off
"outside of 3 knees' really
What has Williams done for your club
Being a good role player isn't an issue we are talking higher end talent
He missed 5 games last year has never been properly fit
Fogarty is a genuine c grader at best naming his is laughable

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Draftguru has a go at rating them bs and cs

Carlton Playing List for 2025 - Draftguru

www.draftguru.com.au

While interesting to see others takes, I really don't support any artificial rankings like these or AFL players ratings etc.

You take one look at it and see Finn Maginness and Orazio Fantasia ranked the same as Barass, Battle, Saad, Docherty etc...

Unfortunately it's the same with all of them, at best they'll still have bizarre anomalies that are so laughable they discredit any other reasonable stuff they may have produced.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Saad was AA 2 seasons ago doesn't get tagged anymore
Cerra has a hamstring every second week
Hewett can't make the distance on a set shot from 40
Yes Acres effort is fine his output is on and off
"outside of 3 knees' really
What has Williams done for your club
Being a good role player isn't an issue we are talking higher end talent
He missed 5 games last year has never been properly fit
Fogarty is a genuine c grader at best naming his is laughable

Sorry Foxman, but it's clear you don't have a clue what you're talking about so I'm going to get back to debating people who have actually watched Carlton play a game in the last 12 months.

Maybe when you know which Hollands brother is which we'll get back to you.

 

[carlton_99]

Hewett can't make the distance on a set shot from 40

He kicked a set shot goal from 48m out against the Lions in the EF. Literally our most recent game discounts this whole point.

 

[Foxman98]

Sorry Foxman, but it's clear you don't have a clue what you're talking about so I'm going to get back to debating people who have actually watched Carlton play a game in the last 12 months.

Maybe when you know which Hollands brother is which we'll get back to you.

Watched plenty,

Your backline is held together by Weiterings brilliance his lack of AA blazers was a laugh,

Cripps is your whole midfield when Walsh isn't at 100% and your forwad line is heavily reliant on McKay and Curnow kicking all your goals case in point you had 5 other players kick 15 goals or more and 2 of them are no longer at your club