Prediction Who will be better in 2025? Carlton or Hawthorn

[Dewyyyyy]

I like Scrimshaw but I can't see a world where Newman wouldn't get a game over him currently. Newman has been playing at a very high level especially in the last two seasons. You also don't need the additional height Scrimshaw provides in a back 7 that has Weitering, Barrass, and Sicily. I think it would be very difficult to leave Saad and Newman out of a combined team.

On the other two players you mentioned in Acres and Cerra. In my opinion most teams should line up with at least 7 players that can play midfield with two being wingers. Think the wingers pick themselves with Acres from Carlton and D'Ambrosio from the Hawks. Both have different strengths which would complement each other well. And then when you look at the remaining five midfielders there is a very clear core four with Cripps, Walsh, Day and Newcombe. The 5th in my opinion would have to be Cerra. I don't think any of the other Hawthorn midfielder's have shown more than him to date. I'd probably even have Hewett next in line but we wouldn't need another inside midfielder.

Scrimshaw was unreal last year. Up there with Newman, but his defense ability both smalls and talls was quality. Newman was good too so it’s tough.

Newman - 23.6 disp 80% DE 5.5 intercepts 4.7 rebounds 8 marks (0.5 contested) 1.5 score launches 28.6% DLL (0.6 contests a game involved in).

Scrimshaw - 18 disp 84% DE 7.6 intercepts 4 rebounds 6 marks (1.1 contested) 2 score launches 25.7% DLL (0.4 contests a game)

Newman had more accumulation across half back but Scrimshaw was significantly ahead in intercepting, rebounding and score launches relatively similar and you’d know Newman isn’t necessarily a lockdown defender. Scrimshaw played CHB but did defend both smalls and talls with good effect.

It’s personal preference but good seasons from both, it’s interesting to see what a combined 22 would look like.

And I agree it’s Acres but I don’t think it’s as simple, Cerra could be a good option, but as could Worpel as they’re pretty similar in performance although slightly different players. Although the gap has closed in the fact Cerra use to be outside class but wasn’t as inside and Worpel was a bull who didn’t have the class but this season Cerra took significant steps to being a good inside mid and Worpel was one of the better kicks inside 50 (his goal assists are high). It’s a coin flip.

 

[Matrix10]

Fogarty and Pittonet

Might as well include Orazio

 

[Matrix10]

A midfield doesn't function because of any one player.

Pretty much does at the Blose

 

[Matrix10]

Walsh’s consistency is a key area, but since his 2021 season Newcombe has been better, taking in consistency. Doesn’t help Walsh being injured in parts. Newcombes peak is higher in my eyes, don’t think Walsh has the natural ability to play forward or being as damaging forward of centre, as shown by the goal assists and score inv avg shown in a peak run by Newcombe backend of 2024. (2 and 10).

It is hard to compare them anyway, Walsh is a great two way runner, his accumulation is very high, he has good hands and he is clean, but lacks the damage in his kicking and generally speaking he isn’t a threat going forward. He kicks goals from the midfield but he isn’t someone who will play as a forward to rest or be a reliable option to score. Whereas Newcombe is, maybe not at a consistent level of impact scoreboard wise, but if you’ve watched him you’d know. He is strong overhead and his crumbing is at a good level, he is also a reliable finisher. He’s shown an ability to be a super damaging kick going inside 50 whereas that’s been a weak area of Walsh’s game.

The difference is Walsh is genuinely an elite runner both ways and impacts at both ends, he is what Nathan Ellis is for cricket, giving it 110% without any effort left and will happily play injured to get his team over the line, would run through a brick wall for his teammates. Not saying Newcombe doesn’t, as he’s also strong at running both ways, his defensive intent and 110% approach. But it’s a staple of Walsh’s game.

Newcombe over Walsh every day of the week and twice on Sundays

 

[Worm4]

Newcombe over Walsh every day of the week and twice on Sundays

It's an interesting one considering they both ended up on the same amount of coaches votes in 2024 , however Walsh played 4 less home and away games .
You're probably right about Sundays although - Hawks played more Sunday games last year IIRC

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Newcombe over Walsh every day of the week and twice on Sundays

Based on what? Please point out to us using statistics how Newcombe is so far ahead of Walsh?

Even in a down year Walsh one could easily make the argument that he had a better year than Newcombe who had a career best.

 

[Vindicater]

I would take Newcombe over Walsh. Dude is a beast.

 

[JustaBattler]

What is the view from Hawthorn supporters on the big bloke Carlton have signed into VFL from Hawthorn as a defender?

 

[BIGHAWK23]

What is the view from Hawthorn supporters on the big bloke Carlton have signed into VFL from Hawthorn as a defender?

Good luck

 

[SplintWhisky]

I am interested to see if Hawthorn as a young side are able to back up last year and make finals again. Some young sides achieve finals but then go down for a season as the fixture gets a little harder and more effort goes into the opposition's preparation.

Hope they do continue their rise. I like Sam Mitchell's attitude and the kids have some nice swagger that hasn't gone too far into tool territory yet (obviously sans Ginnivan)

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

I would take Newcombe over Walsh. Dude is a beast.

And you'd be entitled to do so. Track record says Walsh is the better player when fit however.

 

[threesixpio]

I am interested to see if Hawthorn as a young side are able to back up last year and make finals again. Some young sides achieve finals but then go down for a season as the fixture gets a little harder and more effort goes into the opposition's preparation.

Hope they do continue their rise. I like Sam Mitchell's attitude and the kids have some nice swagger that hasn't gone too far into tool territory yet (obviously sans Ginnivan)

Not getting a flash in the pan vibe from this bunch. The Hokball stuff belies the fact that they’re very disciplined at training etc. But you never know. So much of this stuff is psychological. Young teams that love playing together are fun to watch - Tiggers 2017, Collingwood 2022 and Melbourne a few years back. Even more fun when it’s your team

 

[TheFourPillars]

What is the view from Hawthorn supporters on the big bloke Carlton have signed into VFL from Hawthorn as a defender?

He has speed can take mark is courageous and tough alas he can not build a tank. I don't know whether it is genetic but the bloke is bent over at training after doing a couple of drills. I wish him all the best. If u can some how build his tank to a reasonable level I hazard a guess u will have a player

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Yes and I stand by that I think they will. The top end of the Hawks and the lack of depth beyond their best 22 are my concerns.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Lmao Cornes? Write me a 22 and the players in the mix/fringe 22 who could miss out

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Lmao Cornes? Write me a 22 and the players in the mix/fringe 22 who could miss out

No, you’re the one making the claim, you write the team.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

No, you’re the one making the claim, you write the team.

You're the one disputing it?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

This will be the second claim that you’ve backed away from, in only two pages.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

This will be the second claim that you’ve backed away from, in only two pages.

Which two lmao?

 

[Fadge]

This will be the second claim that you’ve backed away from, in only two pages.

That's what they do.

And pretty sure it's him who is disputing Cornes' claim.

I don't even reckon I could get to 23 players for Carlton to make a 'best 23'.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

You're the one disputing it?

You literally disputed on the basis of it being Cornes who said it

So show what was wrong with it

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

What else did he say that constitutes a melt?
That a senior couch should know better than to goad a 21 year old after the siren?

This one.

And now you’re claiming that Hawthorn don’t have enough depth, while the most critical voice in AFL media is claiming that we have arguably the best depth.

You made the claim so why not write the team that shows where we lack depth?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Yes and I stand by that I think they will. The top end of the Hawks and the lack of depth beyond their best 22 are my concerns.

Post the best 22 for the Hawks.

 

[NetworkNerd]

This one.

And now you’re claiming that Hawthorn don’t have enough depth, while the most critical voice in AFL media is claiming that we have arguably the best depth.

You made the claim so why not write the team that shows where we lack depth?

Hawks have plenty of AFL ready players. According to DraftGuru, Hawthorn have 22 A/B+/B rated players. Players rated C+ or lower and are pretty much best 23 are:
Watson
Dear
Meek
S.Frost
Then plenty of players with a bit of AFL experience (10+ games). Morrison, Reeves, Ward, McKenzie, Butler, Blanck, Mitchell

Carlton have 18 players rated A+/A/B+/B so need to dip well into their C+ to field a team
Of the players rated C+ or lower that should get a game
Motlop
O.Hollands
Fogarty
McGovern
Kemp
Durdin
L.Young
Cincotta
Cowan
Boyd
Cottrell
J.Smith

So imo unless Carlton have a dream injury run they probably need to find new players to play a role to take that next step. Not saying they can't but some changes are needed.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

This one.

And now you’re claiming that Hawthorn don’t have enough depth, while the most critical voice in AFL media is claiming that we have arguably the best depth.

You made the claim so why not write the team that shows where we lack depth?

Do I need to pull up some of the dumb crap Cornes has said in his time in the media? Perhaps I could pull up his comments about Sam Mitchell and the Hawks having a sook after the finals exit given his opinion is gospel?

Sicily Barass Impey
Scrimshaw Battle Amon
D'Ambrosio Newcombe Jiath(if he is back to his best)
Moore Lewis Watson
Ginnivan Chol Dear
Meek Day Worpel

Macdonald Nash Hardwick Weddle


After that I'm not seeing much at all really.
There's some names that show a bit of promise but I think the 22 is pretty well locked outside 1 or 2 names that could be in dispute.

Which was my point, outside the best 22 I don't think the Hawks have any real considerable depth.