Prediction Who will be better in 2025? Carlton or Hawthorn

[WalshistheGOAT]

Hawks have plenty of AFL ready players. According to DraftGuru, Hawthorn have 22 A/B+/B rated players. Players rated C+ or lower and are pretty much best 23 are:
Watson
Dear
Meek
S.Frost
Then plenty of players with a bit of AFL experience (10+ games). Morrison, Reeves, Ward, McKenzie, Butler, Blanck, Mitchell

Carlton have 18 players rated A+/A/B+/B so need to dip well into their C+ to field a team
Of the players rated C+ or lower that should get a game
Motlop
O.Hollands
Fogarty
McGovern
Kemp
Durdin
L.Young
Cincotta
Cowan
Boyd
Cottrell
J.Smith

So imo unless Carlton have a dream injury run they probably need to find new players to play a role to take that next step. Not saying they can't but some changes are needed.

I think this is pretty well the consensus. Hawks have a wider spread of established talent, Blues have more established star talent.

Blues will need a number of their lower rated, more unproven players to show improvement to close the gap on the best teams, the Hawks will need some of their already established senior players to show improvement and step up into the next bracket towards being stars themselves.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Lmao Cornes? Write me a 22 and the players in the mix/fringe 22 who could miss out

B: Hardwick - Barrass - Battle

HB: Sicily - Scrimshaw - Amon

C: Weddle - Day - D’Ambrosio

HF: Moore - Lewis - MacDonald

F: Ginnivan - Dear - Watson

FOL: Meek - Newcombe - Worpel

INT: Chol - Ward - Nash - Mackenzie - Impey

Missing out is:
Gunston, Breust, Frost, Morrison, Jiath, Maginness as notables then you’ve got Blanck, Reeves, B.MacDonald, Ramsden and even Serong.

Significant depth. I have no idea if Hardwick plays forward and Frost plays down back and one of the key forwards go out like Chol, one of the young mids like Ward could not play either.

If Jiath is fit he could play, Morrison finished the year well and showed he can play in the 23, Breust fit without carrying an injury is probably in most other sides. Maginness the same as Morrison. Reeves fighting with meek for the ruck spot or playing two rucks.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

B: Hardwick - Barrass - Battle

HB: Sicily - Scrimshaw - Amon

C: Weddle - Day - D’Ambrosio

HF: Moore - Lewis - MacDonald

F: Ginnivan - Dear - Watson

FOL: Meek - Newcombe - Worpel

INT: Chol - Ward - Nash - Mackenzie - Impey

Missing out is:
Gunston, Breust, Frost, Morrison, Jiath, Maginness as notables then you’ve got Blanck, Reeves, B.MacDonald, Ramsden and even Serong.

Significant depth. I have no idea if Hardwick plays forward and Frost plays down back and one of the key forwards go out like Chol, one of the young mids like Ward could not play either.

Blanck, B.Macdonald, Ramsdan and Serong are not quality depth. I could name plenty of players at Carlton of similar level and you'd laugh in response.

Breust and Gunston are on their last legs and likely continue their slow decline. Perhaps they've got 1 year of decent footy left in them, imo they're cooked, simply can't defend and pressure for 4 quarters anymore

Frost is quality depth, as is Jiath and Maginness.
Don't rate Morrison but I'll pay him as well.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Blanck, B.Macdonald, Ramsdan and Serong are not quality depth. I could name plenty of players at Carlton of similar level and you'd laugh in response.

Breust and Gunston are on their last legs and likely continue their slow decline. Perhaps they've got 1 year of decent footy left in them, imo they're cooked.

Frost is quality depth, as is Jiath and Maginness.
Don't rate Morrison but I'll pay him as well.

Blanck was best 22 before his ACL. Serong played as depth last year and in games he came in he made an impact and done well. But even for this it’s more likely positional changes are made first, as Frost, Weddle, Scrimshaw, Battle and Barrass can all play KPD but also all play besides Barrass, other roles. It’s the versatility.

Morrison is quality depth and I was surprised to see him not go elsewhere, Jiath and Maginness quality could be best 23, Breust and Gunston probably have another year or two, Gunston was quality in the 22 of 2024, and Breust without injuries is also quality. This is for 2025, not beyond. Both could play in the 23.

Then you’ve got young players who are hungry and are gonna need to push their case.

The obvious is looking at Carlton’s best 23, you could send yours but there would be a handful who wouldn’t even get a game at Hawthorn. Hence where the disparity of quality and depth is despite the top line talent Carlton possesses.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Blanck was best 22 before his ACL. Serong played as depth last year and in games he came in he made an impact and done well. But even for this it’s more likely positional changes are made first, as Frost, Weddle, Scrimshaw, Battle and Barrass can all play KPD but also all play besides Barrass, other roles. It’s the versatility.

Morrison is quality depth and I was surprised to see him not go elsewhere, Jiath and Maginness quality could be best 23, Breust and Gunston probably have another year or two, Gunston was quality in the 22 of 2024, and Breust without injuries is also quality. This is for 2025, not beyond. Both could play in the 23.

Then you’ve got young players who are hungry and are gonna need to push their case.

The obvious is looking at Carlton’s best 23, you could send yours but there would be a handful who wouldn’t even get a game at Hawthorn. Hence where the disparity of quality and depth is despite the top line talent Carlton possesses.

I wouldn't dispute there's players in Carltons best 23 who wouldn't get a game at the Hawks, they have a very good spread of talent in their first team and Carlton are far more top heavy.

I'll send a b23 list after work, my breaks finishing up.

 

[carlton_99]

No Walsh didn’t have a better year.

5 goals for the year to 11
Walsh won more of the ball (28-24) as he does but Newcombe more clearances
66% DE to 76%
Newcombe more contested ball
More goal assists, similar score involvements

Walsh was more accumulative but the damage Newcombe had evened him up and tipped the scales in a fair amount of statistics, which is bleedingly obvious when you watch them play, he’s the more damaging player.

You can look at 2022 too, 28 to 25 disposals in Walsh’s favour but more goals, clearances, better efficiency, more contested football and similar score involvements again. (Walsh more goal assists, Hawthorn a worse side).

Over the last two seasons, Newcombe has been better.

Score involvements
2024: Walsh (6.7 per game); Newcombe (6.5 per game)
2023: Walsh (6.7 per game); Newcombe (6.4 per game)
2022: Walsh (6.3 per game); Newcombe (5.4 per game)

Goal assists:
2024: Walsh (0.4 per game); Newcombe (0.7 per game)
2023: Walsh (1.0 per game); Newcombe (0.6 per game)
2022: Walsh (0.4 per game); Newcombe (0.7 per game)

Clearances:
2024: Walsh (5.0 per game); Newcombe (5.9 per game)
2023: Walsh (3.8 per game); Newcombe (5.5 per game)
2022: Walsh (4.4 per game); Newcombe (3.9 per game)

Contested possessions:
2024: Walsh (11.1 per game); Newcombe (11.5 per game)
2023: Walsh (10.8 per game); Newcombe (11.3 per game)
2022: Walsh (11.5 per game); Newcombe (9.1 per game)

Disposal efficiency:
2024: Walsh (66.0%); Newcombe (76.3%)
2023: Walsh (73.5%); Newcombe (76.9%)
2022: Walsh (74.5%); Newcombe (66.9%)

Goals:
2024: Walsh (0.3 per game); Newcombe (0.4 per game)
2023: Walsh (0.3 per game); Newcombe (0.5 per game)
2022: Walsh (0.3 per game); Newcombe (0.4 per game)

You seem to be saying "more" of whatever stat when Newcombe leads by an insignificant amount but then "similar" when Walsh leads by an insignificant amount. If you averaged most of these stats across the three year period you have mentioned on here the differences would not be statistically significant.

Most importantly you haven't taken into account the differing roles of the players in their midfield group. Newcombe is the main inside midfield (#1 for contested possessions and #1 for clearances in 2024) for Hawthorn whereas Walsh (#2 for contested possessions and #3 for clearances in 2024) has Cripps and Hewett ahead of him in that regard. So Walsh's role isn't really to be the main contested brute who gets all the clearances and contested possessions. He is a two-way mid that excels when exiting stoppage due to his ability to spread from stoppage. The fact that he can also win his ball and has comparable contested and clearance numbers to Newcombe is just an added feature of his game - but it is not his main strength.

 

[Hawkboy62]

Might as well include Orazio

Don't mock Orazio just because he doesn't play for the Pies. DraftGuru has him listed as a B grade player so equivalent to say Ginnivan, MacDonald, Weddle, Battle, Barrass, Jiath, Hardwick, Amon on Hawthorn's list and rated better than Watson and Dear.

 

[peetoo]

Do I need to pull up some of the dumb crap Cornes has said in his time in the media? Perhaps I could pull up his comments about Sam Mitchell and the Hawks having a sook after the finals exit given his opinion is gospel?

Sicily Barass Impey
Scrimshaw Battle Amon
D'Ambrosio Newcombe Jiath(if he is back to his best)
Moore Lewis Watson
Ginnivan Chol Dear
Meek Day Worpel

Macdonald Nash Hardwick Weddle



After that I'm not seeing much at all really.
There's some names that show a bit of promise but I think the 22 is pretty well locked outside 1 or 2 names that could be in dispute.

Which was my point, outside the best 22 I don't think the Hawks have any real considerable depth.

Hawks have depth that’s a reason they kept Gunston and bruest for another year you could say ‘going for it’
Ruck Reeves can slot in in case of injury or countering opponent
Defender Frost probably is still best 22
Mackenzie was missed in the last game of 2024
Ward can do a job
Maginness can be too if there wasn’t so much competition for spots

None of these are speculative

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Blanck was best 22 before his ACL. Serong played as depth last year and in games he came in he made an impact and done well. But even for this it’s more likely positional changes are made first, as Frost, Weddle, Scrimshaw, Battle and Barrass can all play KPD but also all play besides Barrass, other roles. It’s the versatility.

Morrison is quality depth and I was surprised to see him not go elsewhere, Jiath and Maginness quality could be best 23, Breust and Gunston probably have another year or two, Gunston was quality in the 22 of 2024, and Breust without injuries is also quality. This is for 2025, not beyond. Both could play in the 23.

Then you’ve got young players who are hungry and are gonna need to push their case.

The obvious is looking at Carlton’s best 23, you could send yours but there would be a handful who wouldn’t even get a game at Hawthorn. Hence where the disparity of quality and depth is despite the top line talent Carlton possesses.

Out of the Best 22 for Carlton, who plays for Hawthorn, who can make their best 22.

Newman, Weitering, Kemp
Cowan, McGovern, Saad
Hollands, Walsh, Acres
Hollands, McKay, Fogarty
Williams, Curnow, Motlop
TDK, Cripps, Cerra
Hewett, Moir, Smith, Boyd

Unlikely anyone on the bench plays, unlikely any of the small forwards play, Hollands, and a handful of the defenders.

Newman, Weitering, Saad, Acres, Walsh, McKay, Curnow, Cripps, TDK (2nd ruck) likely the ones that would, Newman is a 50-50 call with Scrimshaw.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Hawks have depth that’s a reason they kept Gunston and bruest for another year you could say ‘going for it’
Ruck Reeves can slot in in case of injury or countering opponent
Defender Frost probably is still best 22
Mackenzie was missed in the last game of 2024
Ward can do a job
Maginness can be too if there wasn’t so much competition for spots

None of these are speculative

I'm just not gonna agree on most of these, Ward, Maginness and Mackenzie would struggle for a game anywhere else barring them needing a tag from Finn. I've heard Mackenzie is having a cracking pre season so that could change this year.

Frost I like despite his flaws, solid depth at worst, quality lockdown defender at his best.

Reeves, same as the others above, might be able to play a role but he's not best 23 at any other club imo and very limited as a player.

 

[Mr Meow]

Out of the Best 22 for Carlton, who plays for Hawthorn, who can make their best 22.

Newman, Weitering, Kemp
Cowan, McGovern, Saad
Hollands, Walsh, Acres
Hollands, McKay, Fogarty
Williams, Curnow, Motlop
TDK, Cripps, Cerra
Hewett, Moir, Smith, Boyd

Unlikely anyone on the bench plays, unlikely any of the small forwards play, Hollands, and a handful of the defenders.

Newman, Weitering, Saad, Acres, Walsh, McKay, Curnow, Cripps, TDK (2nd ruck) likely the ones that would, Newman is a 50-50 call with Scrimshaw.

Newman definitely in and I think one of Cerra or Hewett could make it.

 

[peetoo]

I'm just not gonna agree on most of these, Ward, Maginness and Mackenzie would struggle for a game anywhere else barring them needing a tag from Finn. I've heard Mackenzie is having a cracking pre season so that could change this year.

Frost I like despite his flaws, solid depth at worst, quality lockdown defender at his best.

Reeves, same as the others above, might be able to play a role but he's not best 23 at any other club imo and very limited as a player.

Depth is similar to, but not exactly the same as ‘get a game elsewhere’. But if you like we have pittonet not getting a game at carlton who didn’t get a game before leaving hawthorn either.

Reeves for example, will go well if needed to cover Meek. Absolutely shafted by the AFLs rule changes though

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Score involvements
2024: Walsh (6.7 per game); Newcombe (6.5 per game)
2023: Walsh (6.7 per game); Newcombe (6.4 per game)
2022: Walsh (6.3 per game); Newcombe (5.4 per game)

Goal assists:
2024: Walsh (0.4 per game); Newcombe (0.7 per game)
2023: Walsh (1.0 per game); Newcombe (0.6 per game)
2022: Walsh (0.4 per game); Newcombe (0.7 per game)

Clearances:
2024: Walsh (5.0 per game); Newcombe (5.9 per game)
2023: Walsh (3.8 per game); Newcombe (5.5 per game)
2022: Walsh (4.4 per game); Newcombe (3.9 per game)

Contested possessions:
2024: Walsh (11.1 per game); Newcombe (11.5 per game)
2023: Walsh (10.8 per game); Newcombe (11.3 per game)
2022: Walsh (11.5 per game); Newcombe (9.1 per game)

Disposal efficiency:
2024: Walsh (66.0%); Newcombe (76.3%)
2023: Walsh (73.5%); Newcombe (76.9%)
2022: Walsh (74.5%); Newcombe (66.9%)

Goals:
2024: Walsh (0.3 per game); Newcombe (0.4 per game)
2023: Walsh (0.3 per game); Newcombe (0.5 per game)
2022: Walsh (0.3 per game); Newcombe (0.4 per game)

You seem to be saying "more" of whatever stat when Newcombe leads by an insignificant amount but then "similar" when Walsh leads by an insignificant amount. If you averaged most of these stats across the three year period you have mentioned on here the differences would not be statistically significant.

Most importantly you haven't taken into account the differing roles of the players in their midfield group. Newcombe is the main inside midfield (#1 for contested possessions and #1 for clearances in 2024) for Hawthorn whereas Walsh (#2 for contested possessions and #3 for clearances in 2024) has Cripps and Hewett ahead of him in that regard. So Walsh's role isn't really to be the main contested brute who gets all the clearances and contested possessions. He is a two-way mid that excels when exiting stoppage due to his ability to spread from stoppage. The fact that he can also win his ball and has comparable contested and clearance numbers to Newcombe is just an added feature of his game - but it is not his main strength.

The fact is the key stats for the impact they’re having outside of purely disposals:
Goals, goal assists, score inv, clearances and contested ball.

Scoreboard impact, clearances so where the ball is being won and contested whether it’s an accumulation of inside or outside.

Walsh no doubt leads disposals because he accumulates better, and at times he will likely have more of a statistic but that can be due to the amount of ball is being won not the impact or damage of each ball.

Like when Mitchell was the best mid in the comp in 2018, he wasn’t the most damaging but he had good score involvement levels and scoreboard impact but that was due to the severe impact of his accumulation. Whereas someone like Martin or Petracca or Bont may be a similar level of scoreboard impact by stats by damage per possession was the obvious split between the two.

This is similar for Walsh. His 2024 season he started it brilliantly but finished poorly, his ball use was obvious as a weakness. Newcombe started inconsistently but finished the season superbly especially with the finals run he had personally.

Walsh’s strength is his attack on the ball, his role isn’t there but it is a strength, as is the spread from the contest. It just so happens that his ball use isn’t up to par for what his role is. If he was a good ball user, he would take such a huge step forward. If he could compliment his spread from the contest and accumulation with ball use he would takeoff.

But for example I wouldn’t consider a 5.5 to 3.8 clearance differential from 2023 between the two “insignificant”. And for some statistics a .2 to .3 difference is significant like goals. 0.7 to 0.4. In regard to these two for 2024 it was 0.4 to 0.3. 11 goals to 5 and 12 to 6 in 2023 (0.5 to 0.3 in favour of Newcombe both times).

For me, Newcombe has never been sexy in the statistician sense, but his impact on games is huge, it’s why he has been apart of the AA squad, best finals player over the two finals he played (most votes per game), B&F (first and significant high placing), coaches votes and Brownlow top 10s.

2023 was a statistically better year for Newcombe which goes to show.

2022-21 Walsh was better, but since then Newcombe has been.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

I wouldn't dispute there's players in Carltons best 23 who wouldn't get a game at the Hawks, they have a very good spread of talent in their first team and Carlton are far more top heavy.

I'll send a b23 list after work, my breaks finishing up.

That's the difference I’d be confident that there might be more that miss out from Carlton’s team than make it, and that doesn’t include depth. There are players at Hawthorn depth wise who would probably make Carlton’s best team too, without being a consistent starter in Hawthorns. Hence why the depth conversation.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Score involvements
2024: Walsh (6.7 per game); Newcombe (6.5 per game)
2023: Walsh (6.7 per game); Newcombe (6.4 per game)
2022: Walsh (6.3 per game); Newcombe (5.4 per game)

Goal assists:
2024: Walsh (0.4 per game); Newcombe (0.7 per game)
2023: Walsh (1.0 per game); Newcombe (0.6 per game)
2022: Walsh (0.4 per game); Newcombe (0.7 per game)

Clearances:
2024: Walsh (5.0 per game); Newcombe (5.9 per game)
2023: Walsh (3.8 per game); Newcombe (5.5 per game)
2022: Walsh (4.4 per game); Newcombe (3.9 per game)

Contested possessions:
2024: Walsh (11.1 per game); Newcombe (11.5 per game)
2023: Walsh (10.8 per game); Newcombe (11.3 per game)
2022: Walsh (11.5 per game); Newcombe (9.1 per game)

Disposal efficiency:
2024: Walsh (66.0%); Newcombe (76.3%)
2023: Walsh (73.5%); Newcombe (76.9%)
2022: Walsh (74.5%); Newcombe (66.9%)

Goals:
2024: Walsh (0.3 per game); Newcombe (0.4 per game)
2023: Walsh (0.3 per game); Newcombe (0.5 per game)
2022: Walsh (0.3 per game); Newcombe (0.4 per game)

You seem to be saying "more" of whatever stat when Newcombe leads by an insignificant amount but then "similar" when Walsh leads by an insignificant amount. If you averaged most of these stats across the three year period you have mentioned on here the differences would not be statistically significant.

Most importantly you haven't taken into account the differing roles of the players in their midfield group. Newcombe is the main inside midfield (#1 for contested possessions and #1 for clearances in 2024) for Hawthorn whereas Walsh (#2 for contested possessions and #3 for clearances in 2024) has Cripps and Hewett ahead of him in that regard. So Walsh's role isn't really to be the main contested brute who gets all the clearances and contested possessions. He is a two-way mid that excels when exiting stoppage due to his ability to spread from stoppage. The fact that he can also win his ball and has comparable contested and clearance numbers to Newcombe is just an added feature of his game - but it is not his main strength.

L Walsh R Newcombe

Score inv
6.7 - 6.5
Goal assists
0.4 - 0.7
Clearances
5 - 5.9
Contested possessions
11.1 - 11.5
Disposal efficiency
66% - 76%
Goals
0.3 - 0.4 (5 - 11)

23.5 - 25

(2024)
Score inv
6.7 - 6.4
Goal assists
1 - 0.6
Clearances
3.8 - 5.5
Contested possessions
10.8 - 11.3
Disposal efficiency
73.5% - 76.9%
Goals
0.3 - 0.5 (6-12)

22.6 - 24.3

I will not debate with you that Walsh was great in 2021, and still better than Newcombe in 2022. But Newcombe since then has been better, considering these “impact stats” which showcase where the ball is won, how it’s won and what they’re doing with it. I’d say even considering that Newcombe doesn’t really have significant stats but he is a high impact player. Which I know you’d know if you’ve seen both players play. Walsh’s accumulation is quality and it gives him more opportunities to make impact, which is also why impact per possession would be a significant statistic to view and consider.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Do I need to pull up some of the dumb crap Cornes has said in his time in the media? Perhaps I could pull up his comments about Sam Mitchell and the Hawks having a sook after the finals exit given his opinion is gospel?

You claimed that Mitchell melted after the game but couldn’t actually come up with anything to justify such a claim.

Sicily Barass Impey
Scrimshaw Battle Amon
D'Ambrosio Newcombe Jiath(if he is back to his best)
Moore Lewis Watson
Ginnivan Chol Dear
Meek Day Worpel

Macdonald Nash Hardwick Weddle


After that I'm not seeing much at all really.
There's some names that show a bit of promise but I think the 22 is pretty well locked outside 1 or 2 names that could be in dispute.

Which was my point, outside the best 22 I don't think the Hawks have any real considerable depth.

Your side is missing Breust, Gunston, Frost, Morrison, Reeves and Maginness, and you couldn’t find a spot for our two top 10 draft picks Mackenzie and Ward… and you have MacDonald, Nash, Weddle and Hardwick all starting on the bench.

Yet you question Hawks depth.

 

[carlton_99]

The fact is the key stats for the impact they’re having outside of purely disposals:
Goals, goal assists, score inv, clearances and contested ball.

Scoreboard impact, clearances so where the ball is being won and contested whether it’s an accumulation of inside or outside.

Walsh no doubt leads disposals because he accumulates better, and at times he will likely have more of a statistic but that can be due to the amount of ball is being won not the impact or damage of each ball.

Like when Mitchell was the best mid in the comp in 2018, he wasn’t the most damaging but he had good score involvement levels and scoreboard impact but that was due to the severe impact of his accumulation. Whereas someone like Martin or Petracca or Bont may be a similar level of scoreboard impact by stats by damage per possession was the obvious split between the two.

This is similar for Walsh. His 2024 season he started it brilliantly but finished poorly, his ball use was obvious as a weakness. Newcombe started inconsistently but finished the season superbly especially with the finals run he had personally.

Walsh’s strength is his attack on the ball, his role isn’t there but it is a strength, as is the spread from the contest. It just so happens that his ball use isn’t up to par for what his role is. If he was a good ball user, he would take such a huge step forward. If he could compliment his spread from the contest and accumulation with ball use he would takeoff.

But for example I wouldn’t consider a 5.5 to 3.8 clearance differential from 2023 between the two “insignificant”. And for some statistics a .2 to .3 difference is significant like goals. 0.7 to 0.4. In regard to these two for 2024 it was 0.4 to 0.3. 11 goals to 5 and 12 to 6 in 2023 (0.5 to 0.3 in favour of Newcombe both times).

For me, Newcombe has never been sexy in the statistician sense, but his impact on games is huge, it’s why he has been apart of the AA squad, best finals player over the two finals he played (most votes per game), B&F (first and significant high placing), coaches votes and Brownlow top 10s.

2023 was a statistically better year for Newcombe which goes to show.

2022-21 Walsh was better, but since then Newcombe has been.

I don't doubt that contested possessions, clearances etc are important. The point I made was that Walsh has contested midfielders ahead of him that are more likely to dominate those stats for Carlton, whereas Newcombe is Hawthorn's main inside midfielder. As such, if you are going to compare numbers in those areas Newcombe really should be well ahead given his role in the team. But like I said looking across the three years the numbers show pretty insignificant differences in those areas.

There are also very few similarities between Walsh and Mitchell. I have personally never been a fan of Tom Mitchell - found he was a massive stat padder at the Hawks. Very little damage and not great defensively. Sam Walsh is a far better runner and defensive midfielder than Mitchell ever was.

You also seem to be picking and choosing data and then claiming it isn't insignificant like I said. When if you look at my post I said the averages over three years collectively are largely insignificant in the areas you picked out. Picking out one stat in one year having a difference in Newcombe's favour doesn't really disprove that. In fact, you can do the same the other way (i.e., Walsh disposal efficiency in 2022 Vs Newcombe), when you had said in your original post that Newcombe had a better efficiency than Walsh in that year.

You also then go on to use totals for stats like goals when the two players didn't play the same number of games as each other each year in that period which to me doesn't make much sense - averages are always preferred in these instances. Lastly, I also do not like using stats to compare players - the only reason I brought them up here is because you specifically referenced them as a reason Newcombe was better.

 

[Franc de Borges]

View attachment 2204873


The bloke in the background of this photo looking real ominous.

I assume our social media team haven't uploaded an in-focus picture of Nuke because of the sleepless nights it would have caused all opposition midfielders.

Wait until you see the grainy fella in the background grow an upper body.

 

[matey]

Do I need to pull up some of the dumb crap Cornes has said in his time in the media? Perhaps I could pull up his comments about Sam Mitchell and the Hawks having a sook after the finals exit given his opinion is gospel?

Sicily Barass Impey
Scrimshaw Battle Amon
D'Ambrosio Newcombe Jiath(if he is back to his best)
Moore Lewis Watson
Ginnivan Chol Dear
Meek Day Worpel

Macdonald Nash Hardwick Weddle


After that I'm not seeing much at all really.
There's some names that show a bit of promise but I think the 22 is pretty well locked outside 1 or 2 names that could be in dispute.

Which was my point, outside the best 22 I don't think the Hawks have any real considerable depth.

Hawks didn’t have a bench as good as that during its three peat . And then with Frost, Finn, Frenchie, Ward, Morrison, Blanck, Reeves all capable AFL players with AFL experience sitting in the wings …… that’s pushing close to 30 players on the list. Best depth at the club in years which you call average

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Hawks didn’t have a bench as good as that during its three peat . And then with Frost, Finn, Frenchie, Ward, Morrison, Blanck, Reeves all capable AFL players with AFL experience sitting in the wings …… that’s pushing close to 30 players on the list. Best depth at the club in years which you call average

Mackenzie and Ward. Which clubs would they get starting midfield roles in?

We just got rid of Dow and Carroll who had both shown more than either player.

Kennedy too miles better than either.

Blanck vs Lewis Young who most of us call a spud is a no contest win to Young.

Finn is a bog ordinary player who's good at one thing - tagging.

The Hawks had significantly better depth and light-years better best 22 talent in their 3 peat team. Never seen such an ordinary teams supporters get so ahead of themselves, which is saying something when I've experienced first hand the delusion of Carlton supporters over the years.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

Mackenzie and Ward. Which clubs would they get starting midfield roles in?

We just got rid of Dow and Carroll who had both shown more than either player.

Kennedy too miles better than either.

Blanck vs Lewis Young who most of us call a spud is a no contest win to Young.

Finn is a bog ordinary player who's good at one thing - tagging.

The Hawks had significantly better depth and light-years better best 22 talent in their 3 peat team. Never seen such an ordinary teams supporters get so ahead of themselves, which is saying something when I've experienced first hand the delusion of Carlton supporters over the years.

Genuinely delusional rantings

Dow and Carroll , on disposal alone they lose on that

Blanck would be your number 2 KPD Rd 1, you just picked up our 5th string delisted KPD for a mid season pickup when you realize Nick Haynes aint the answer

Never seen someone so unhinged with zero ability to back it up

 

[carlton_99]

Genuinely delusional rantings

Dow and Carroll , on disposal alone they lose on that

Blanck would be your number 2 KPD Rd 1, you just picked up our 5th string delisted KPD for a mid season pickup when you realize Nick Haynes aint the answer

Never seen someone so unhinged with zero ability to back it up

I'm sorry but Lewis Young has shown far more than Blanck to this point. Blanck might end up the better player but right now Young has played the better football to date.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

I'm sorry but Lewis Young has shown far more than Blanck to this point. Blanck might end up the better player but right now Young has played the better football to date.

So why did you get an elderly Nick Haynes?

 

[carlton_99]

So why did you get an elderly Nick Haynes?

What has that got to do with my post?

 

[BIGHAWK23]

What has that got to do with my post?

If Lewis Young has shown so much,

Why would you pick up Nick Haynes to play as your 2nd KPD