Analysis Why are we s**t?

[Vander18]

Well that is what the coach wants to do and is why Brasher did his own review. Problem is there is a starting line and it is a marathon.
It is likely to take a few presidents and board members.
Like I keep saying there are very few board or football department members that have been around for more than 3 years.
Do not disagree. There is a lot to change.

I am not entirely convinced we even acknowledge/understand the scope of the issues tbh….

 

[Dave]

The bit about patience is an unfair comment imo. The members and supporters have been waiting nearly two decades now for some success. And I don't mean a flag either. Just a good consistent side each week. I think everyone within and outside the club has the right to question this and be upset with the lack of progress.

I don't think it's unfair. We were blessed with a golden period under Sheedy, and have never come to terms with the fact that the fundamental structure of the competition changed during his tenure. Why have we been waiting for two decades? The supplements saga has a lot to do with it, and what drove that? Impatience for success under Knights, who I am not for one minute defending, however it led to the appointment of Hird, who was in no way ready or qualified. It's been a shit show since then. One could argue it's been a shit show since before that, given one of the reasons Knights was appointed was his position that the list didn't need rebuilding, when clearly it did.

The very fact that people are rumbling about Rutten less than two seasons into his tenure as senior coach tells me we, as a fan base, are not patient. Success may or may not come under Truck, but one thing I can tell you for certain. Chopping and changing the coach every 2-3 seasons wont bring anything but a reluctance from anyone qualified to take on the job. It sure wont bring success.

 

[Call Me Cake]

I can deal with being called a lot of things. The scum... *... cheats, etc; but being called impatient is a low blow and an incredibly insensitive one. Say what you want about what kind of time a coach needs, blah, blah, but there is no need to throw absolute horseshit as a justification for that. We have been the most patient supporter base in the entire country, and the only one that has stuck by a club through thick or thin or injections. I will never throw us under the bus like that and I expect better from the lot.

 

[JayJ20]

You are wrong with Dunkley. There was no price . They where flat out not trading him . I am glad we did not offer more than we did. It would mean we did not learn the lesson with the Shiel trade .
You can credit it with list management trying to fix an issue. We have no control over the other clubs.

I will also say that maybe having Dunstan and playing Shiel in the VFL does not change anything long term . The issue is still there. They know what the problem is . They made a decision at the end of 2020 with a new coach and football manger to start trying to make some changes.
You may not agree with them not taking a few fringe players but they know what they need .
You seem to be annoyed that this year is a write off as well and you wanted a few top ups to make us better now.
My opinion is that is a band aid . Better to be seeing what we are now and the real issues are way out in the open.

I will also say that midfield is not our biggest issue. It is an issue but the lack of pressure small and medium forwards is a bigger issue. Most of the defensive issues stem from a total lack of forward pressure.

What you can credit the club for is what they did after Dunkley. All I see is a club who identified the need for Dunkley, then proceeded to do nothing (result-wise) to address that after they couldn't get him. Hence, the ability to identify Dunkley did not lead to a net positive. It may as well not have happened. I thought we were actually serious about finding someone to play the role we identified for Dunkley.

Thing is, we're happy to collect rejects from other clubs in other areas of the ground (Cutler, Peter Wright, Kelly though not exactly a reject is not someone I would have looked at), but we're so picky when it comes to addressing our midfield imbalance to the point where we have all these high draft picks that are exactly the same type of players and pass on anyone that isn't going to cost two firsts.

We had Bobby Hill as a small forward nominate us, but that again didn't work out because a certain someone's reputation has impacted our ability to easily trade.

 

[ant555]

What you can credit the club for is what they did after Dunkley. All I see is a club who identified the need for Dunkley, then proceeded to do nothing (result-wise) to address that after they couldn't get him. Hence, the ability to identify Dunkley did not lead to a net positive. It may as well not have happened. I thought we were actually serious about finding someone to play the role we identified for Dunkley.

Thing is, we're happy to collect rejects from other clubs in other areas of the ground (Cutler, Peter Wright, Kelly though not exactly a reject is not someone I would have looked at), but we're so picky when it comes to addressing our midfield imbalance to the point where we have all these high draft picks that are exactly the same type of players and pass on anyone that isn't going to cost two firsts.

We had Bobby Hill as a small forward nominate us, but that again didn't work out because a certain someone's reputation has impacted our ability to easily trade.

Look we both agree on the issue. Maybe we are getting too bogged down on the nitty gritty. The list needs overhauling

 

[Dave]

I can deal with being called a lot of things. The scum... *... cheats, etc; but being called impatient is a low blow and an incredibly insensitive one. Say what you want about what kind of time a coach needs, blah, blah, but there is no need to throw absolute horseshit as a justification for that. We have been the most patient supporter base in the entire country, and the only one that has stuck by a club through thick or thin or injections. I will never throw us under the bus like that and I expect better from the lot.

There's a difference between patience and loyalty. To me what you've described above is loyalty, and I agree, as a fan base we've stuck. Doesn't mean IMO we haven't been impatient or that what I posted is "horseshit". If that offends you so be it.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

What you can credit the club for is what they did after Dunkley. All I see is a club who identified the need for Dunkley, then proceeded to do nothing (result-wise) to address that after they couldn't get him. Hence, the ability to identify Dunkley did not lead to a net positive. It may as well not have happened. I thought we were actually serious about finding someone to play the role we identified for Dunkley.

Thing is, we're happy to collect rejects from other clubs in other areas of the ground (Cutler, Peter Wright, Kelly though not exactly a reject is not someone I would have looked at), but we're so picky when it comes to addressing our midfield imbalance to the point where we have all these high draft picks that are exactly the same type of players and pass on anyone that isn't going to cost two firsts.

We had Bobby Hill as a small forward nominate us, but that again didn't work out because a certain someone's reputation has impacted our ability to easily trade.

Thing is, what do we do to fix the problem?

Usually when you ask whinging supporters to give an example of who we need, they’ll reel off a list of Bont, Dangerfield, Petracca, Fyfe, Wines and a number of other unattainable superstars. I’m not saying you do, but many do.

Should we just get any spud midfielder who happens to be 190cm? Bring Myers out of retirement?

I actually think Dunkley was a very smart target… we identified him as gettable, he did want to come, and the only reason he didn’t is because the Bulldogs were ridiculous in their approach. It’s clear they’re overstocked for mids who want major midfield minutes, a smarter club would’ve used the opportunity to fill holes elsewhere.

Who should we have targeted after Dunkley?

 

[yodellinhank]

There's a difference between patience and loyalty. To me what you've described above is loyalty, and I agree, as a fan base we've stuck. Doesn't mean IMO we haven't been impatient or that what I posted is "horseshit". If that offends you so be it.

I remember the crowd getting restless with a quiet second quarter, after the side had piled 15 goals on in the first. We're a different bunch sometimes.

 

[JayJ20]

Thing is, what do we do to fix the problem?

Usually when you ask whinging supporters to give an example of who we need, they’ll reel off a list of Bont, Dangerfield, Petracca, Fyfe, Wines and a number of other unattainable superstars. I’m not saying you do, but many do.

Should we just get any spud midfielder who happens to be 190cm? Bring Myers out of retirement?

I actually think Dunkley was a very smart target… we identified him as gettable, he did want to come, and the only reason he didn’t is because the Bulldogs were ridiculous in their approach. It’s clear they’re overstocked for mids who want major midfield minutes, a smarter club would’ve used the opportunity to fill holes elsewhere.

Who should we have targeted after Dunkley?

I've literally mentioned some examples of depth players we should have targeted multiple times in this thread.
Dunstan, Hewett (Not depth), Greenwood even Brodie (who would have come with a start of second rounder to select Knevitt, Johnson or Goater) to name some players that would have put pressure on our senior players. I'm not asking for a Petracca or any player that will cost two firsts. At least let's look at stopgap options that won't leave our VFL with zero mids. We recruited Cutler, Kelly and Wright as stopgap options. Why can't we do that for our midfield?

I liked that we chased Dunkley and believed we shouldn't give two firsts for him, but you know who else was available that year? Hewett. He was exploring his options. When we realised that Bulldogs weren't going to budge, we could have looked at him.

What's funny is that I literally said all of this last off-season when everyone was on an EF high. We have the same conversations every year.

Let's see how hard we go for Brayshaw this year. If we're not already prioritising him, then something is wrong.

 

[faible]

We had Bobby Hill as a small forward nominate us, but that again didn't work out because a certain someone's reputation has impacted our ability to easily trade.

You mean how GWS refused to trade him?

It's even covered in an Amazon documentary.

 

[faible]

Hewett. He was exploring his options. When we realised that Bulldogs weren't going to budge, we could have looked at him.

And if we did, quietly, behind the scenes, and he said no, and chose Carlton instead?

 

[Kakkle]

You think all these players Essendon should've have gone after would have the same careers at Essendon? There's a reason why most players who leave Essendon grow an extra leg.

 

[The Bomb]

The problem with our midfield right now is defensive running, Richmond never had a big midfield but were a dominant team.

Adding Brodie, who is not a defensive runner, doesn't really fix it. Yet people are fixating on it as though flipping Parish for Brodie would solve everything.

Name all the Essendon players who are having a better season than Brodie. Clearly helps improve the team, we have played Ham, Smith, Shiel, Stringer on 1 leg, Cuttler, Hobbs in a pocket pretty bad to watch, He allows McGrath to go back instead of try and play the game Brodie actually does really well.

 

[faible]

Where did I say any of the above?

I said he doesn't fix the issues. He's a slightly taller Parish. Still doesn't run both ways. Still doesn't fix that our midfield doesn't run both ways which is our #1 issue.

 

[Beerfish]

Any more playing the man and there'll be days off.

 

[Dave]

I remember the crowd getting restless with a quiet second quarter, after the side had piled 15 goals on in the first. We're a different bunch sometimes.

Didn't we bronx cheer when the shot for goal at the end of the first was missed meaning we didn't hit the ton? Good times.

 

[TheUnicorn]

 

[yodellinhank]

You think all these players Essendon should've have gone after would have the same careers at Essendon? There's a reason why most players who leave Essendon grow an extra leg.

Not the stuff we jabbed them with, is it?

 

[carloss]

Too many here wondering why we are shit this year. The more important question is why have we been shit for the best part of 20 years.

The organisational goal should be to set ourselves up as a perennially strong club that like a Sydney or Geelong. We are so far away from that goal it’s not funny.

Maybe we need two threads, one for this season and one for the past 20 season?

 

[citizen-erased]

We actually need to have what is happening now happen. We could top up with fringe players but that is just a few more band aids .
Things are now out in the open.

This is right and you have to embrace it. Midway through the 2nd quarter of the geelong game you had to know it was coming.

 

[ant555]

Maybe we need two threads, one for this season and one for the past 20 season?

Not really. You can just go back and view similar threads started over the last 15 years. They already exist.

 

[ant555]

Pretty fair comments. Truck and Blake will have to change what they are doing. It is that time. The challenge will be how they manage the personal at the end of the year because at some stage we have to stop being the team that is easy to play against and that is not a game plan issue. That is a player and leadership issue. We have been easy to play against for a fair while now. It has drifted through the club and it is a bad stench. Truck has set the vision of what he wants. He may fail to sell it but the next bloke will have to do the same if Truck is moved on and I can bet we will be looking at the same players who either lack the will or footy IQ to work it out.

 

[Call Me Cake]

There's a difference between patience and loyalty. To me what you've described above is loyalty, and I agree, as a fan base we've stuck. Doesn't mean IMO we haven't been impatient or that what I posted is "horseshit". If that offends you so be it.

You are arguing semantics.

If you tell your partner they need to change and they keep ending up in their old ways, when you give them 1, 2, 3, 4 chances etc; and then after years of no change, are you a disloyal person for finally losing your patience?

No, you were not being loyal, you were being patient.

We have been given many reasons to just lose hope, but even with injections, wrong calls, blatant disregard for how we've been run and little to no upside to feed a sense of belief, we have been patient. And we've stayed.

So I reject that horseshit as should everyone else.

 

[faible]

If you tell your partner they need to change and they keep ending up in their old ways, when you give them 1, 2, 3, 4 chances etc; and then after years of no change, are you a disloyal person for finally losing your patience?

Except it isn't analogous.

It would be like going and getting a new partner, then blaming them for not changing for 5 years, even though you've only had them for 18 months.

 

[ant555]

You are arguing semantics.

If you tell your partner they need to change everytime they end up in their old ways, when you give them 1, 2, 3, 4 chances etc; and then after years of no change, are you a disloyal person for finally losing your patience?

No, you were not being loyal, you were being patient.

We have been given many reasons to just lose hope, but even with injections, wrong calls, blatant disregard for how we've been run and little to no upside to feed a sense of belief, we have been patient.

So I reject that horseshit as should everyone else.

It is a bit corny but I guess it depends on where you are at in life and how you support your club.
Right now for me I know it is a bit depressing knowing that they seduced me to walk out on a ledge I should never have gone out on and actually made me think they had started to show some on field improvement as a "team" . I have been saying here for years I do not trust them to defend and play team footy and they sucked me in.
However for me it is not as simple as winning or losing now days. Footy is something I do with Mrs Ant so it is a day out. A chance for her to go feral for a few hours and for me to look at the tactical side of things more than anything. I have accepted we suck. I am not going to be running for the board so it is out of my control. It is what it is. For others it is life and death or a real thorn in their side. so be it.