Analysis Why are we s**t?

[yodellinhank]

There has been a bit going on with it and not just the statue but some issues / disagreements with the AISHoF and how it is run and also the fact the AFL gave us a warning before Covid about neglecting the Tiwi zone and not putting enough effort into it.
I am not really a fan of Nova Peris but there have been a few issues.

I see Dean Rioli has been appointed Tiwi Bombers Women's coach. Is he still involved on our board?

 

[Vindicater]

I said at the time of the ASADA ban that we are cursed until all involved are gone.

Heppell the last holdover I believe?

 

[P Money]

I said at the time of the ASADA ban that we are cursed until all involved are gone.

Heppell the last holdover I believe?

Dodoro

 

[Beerfish]

Time to give this thread a bump.

Lost Trust

In his latest article, Robert Shaw explores another difficult time in the Club's history.

www.essendonfc.com.au

Surprised it didn't get a bump sooner tbh. This thread was certainly in my mind last week.

 

[yodellinhank]

I said at the time of the ASADA ban that we are cursed until all involved are gone.

Heppell the last holdover I believe?

Still got Hurley lurking in the corridors don't they?

 

[ant555]

I see Dean Rioli has been appointed Tiwi Bombers Women's coach. Is he still involved on our board?

No I do not think he is.

 

[Mootsy]

I'm writing this for Zach Merrett, because he deserves better.

We are shite because our recruitment has been very unbalanced and coaching just isn't translating on game-day, this is obvious when you see players confused, not confident, fumbling, and not running for leads, when this happens week in and week out, then you know something is not right.

Yes player development is also an issue, but just look at Geelong, not just who they have picked over the last 20 years but they play old fashioned football, they don't dance around with the ball like its a hot potato, they don't drop simple marks, they just get the ball and kick it long down the line and have naturally competent players on their list(For the most part).

Guess what, Geelong's midfield, defence, forward line all work together because they enjoy playing football and want to win games, so they have the work ethic of hard working regional football players.

EFC has been lost in a fog for ages and has been too stupid to drop players to the VFL, so we even reward poor football skills by not rotating players through the VFL system when they play poorly, which actually helps us win VFL games by doing just that. For example, Wright, Heppell and Perkins may actually be a big help to the VFL side this week and bringing in fresh legs from the VFL to the AFL is also great experience for those players in form that deserve a go, which Essendon used to do anyway in previous decades, so it's not unusual at all. Ask yourself why its taken until late 2024 for the Essendon Football Club to realise this, not withstanding all the things they still haven't addressed yet.

You can run distance covered all you like in a game of football, you can do cartwheels, backflips, whatever, but if your efficiency in possession is low and you can't sustain pressure football and contested ball, then it doesn't amount to much.

 

[ant555]

How the Essendon drug saga is still having an effect on the Bombers

The drug saga was one of the biggest scandals in AFL history.

www.sen.com.au

This was on SEN.

I suspect it is partially true . The reason Adrian managed to see out two football managers that wanted him out was an underlying sentiment that we owed him something because the saga wiped out what many considered was a build that was going to produce a good side. It was at board level and in some coterie groups .

Then there is the situation with Scott's comments on Heppell and how the club owed him . And Barham defending Dodoro .

Luke Hodge is right . We have to move past that crap .

 

[Nicholas61]

I will chime in to "Why are we s**t?" Very basic but kicking skill. At least half of our backline have unco technique and kick slow loopers for instance. Due to lack of confidence they move the ball on slow. Then there are the turnovers. It is hard to have a game plan where you can't rely on the players to execute the most basic skill and demoralisation sets in with turnovers. And you wouldn't want to be a leading forward in this team. You can understand hack kicks out of congestion going to the opposition and I don't get to watch too many matches each weekend (haven't seen Richmond for a while who have some butchers) but at this time of the year I haven't seen other teams who routinely turn the ball over under low pressure like we do.

Honourable mentions:

• Sheeds' spat with Judkins that gave us Dodoro
• Anti clutch players (Caldwell, Zach, Marto, Durham and Stringer excluded here)
• low IQ in terms of where to stand and guard space

 

[P Money]

How the Essendon drug saga is still having an effect on the Bombers

The drug saga was one of the biggest scandals in AFL history.

www.sen.com.au

This was on SEN.

I suspect it is partially true . The reason Adrian managed to see out two football managers that wanted him out was an underlying sentiment that we owed him something because the saga wiped out what many considered was a build that was going to produce a good side. It was at board level and in some coterie groups .

Then there is the situation with Scott's comments on Heppell and how the club owed him . And Barham defending Dodoro .

Luke Hodge is right . We have to move past that crap .

Is there ever going to be a point where the club thinks it owes its fans anything?

 

[Agronomus]

I said at the time of the ASADA ban that we are cursed until all involved are gone.

Heppell the last holdover I believe?

Still playing

 

[Agronomus]

So is Scott having specific footy disagreements with dodo or is dodo just hanging around like a fart in an elevator?

 

[Kong]

How the Essendon drug saga is still having an effect on the Bombers

The drug saga was one of the biggest scandals in AFL history.

www.sen.com.au

This was on SEN.

I suspect it is partially true . The reason Adrian managed to see out two football managers that wanted him out was an underlying sentiment that we owed him something because the saga wiped out what many considered was a build that was going to produce a good side. It was at board level and in some coterie groups .

Then there is the situation with Scott's comments on Heppell and how the club owed him . And Barham defending Dodoro .

Luke Hodge is right . We have to move past that crap .

If the club wants to be kind, give him his 20 year redundancy package and encourage him to find a job that he's good at.

 

[brutus76]

Draft people that can kick and have footy smarts and try to make them fitter athletes

DON'T draft super athletes who can run and jump but cannot kick, handball or tackle to save themselves

 

[FootyGuru]

My take on why we haven’t been successful.

Off the field - There has definitely been a transitional phase from Essendon just being able to throw money at any problem and the equalisation of the competition. The main inequality that still exists in afl are father son and academy’s, take away all father sons from Collingwood and Geelong would they have been so successful? A little luck/ advantage in those areas could be the difference between winning a premiership or even a final. The 20 year no finals thing, we have been a tad unlucky, saga started a forced rebuild, injuries going into finals, having to play interstate, umpiring in the dogs game etc. but still no final wins in 20 years is horrible.

The saga- although most players have moved on there would definitely be personal at the club that were at the club during the saga. Even though it has been many years I feel there is still some lingering resentment from club personal and the afl and vise versa. AFL pretty much threw Essendon under the bus as soon as the afl brand was under scrutiny, and went out of their way to limit it to Essendon despite plenty of other clubs potentially being involved. Even the rec drug situation at Melbourne has performance enhancing properties and the afl protected them under their own suss system.

Drafting wise, dodo has always tried to build the spine first, which I still don’t know whether it is the best method. Good talls are very hard to come across and the best ones win you flags, but they are also more prone to injury and take longer to develop. Look at Hawkins at Geelong very easy to build a list around a gun key forward who’s also the best forward ruck in the comp. Our top picks have been usually talls, some have come on some haven’t. Hooker Hurley Ryder Daniher Carlisle Ridley Crameri have been good selections in hindsight, even though most have finished their career or moved on from the club. Gumby couldn’t get on the field, Bradley a bust and cox and Reid the jury is still out.
Potentially he could have focused on just the best available instead of focusing on talls. Mcgrath at number 1 was interesting, small defenders aren’t usually drafted in the top couple, but I feel his drafting was a lot due to leadership which we are lacking still to this day. That draft itself wasn’t overly strong. I’m sure you can find names behind him that are better but it’s all hindsight.
The new regime has focused on mids at the top, have they been any better? Could they not have foreseen the development of Caldwell and Durham, or maybe Hobbs and tsatas are primed to be our next core.

The other thing that has hurt Essendon is knowing where the list is actually at. We often start the season well, which means by the end we don’t know whether to rebuild or top up. We usually just make or just miss out on finals and it leads to list managers adding a couple of b/c graders to top up rather than take the long route and trade some b/c graders for more draft capital. If you finish in the bottom 8 you don’t get the 8th best player anymore with academy’s and f/s.

I personally would look to go backwards next season. We have finally got some luck with kako, but we should cut some depth, leverde, Kelly Heppell, potentially trade 2mp, parish, stringer and expose some kids and have an actual rebuild.

On the field right now.

It’s pretty clear to me why we are average. We have no ability to build up the footy from the defensive 50. McGrath, McKay leverde Kelly Heppell, and even redman are average kicks. Not only do they gift the ball back too often in d50 we don’t see the build up and ball movement the elite teams have. This also leads to Scott picking tall teams that can compete in the air and force stoppage further a field. Look at two rucks and jones and cox playing wing. This is also why we always see Martin played back there, him and Ridley are our only two decent kicks. Martin has turned it over far too often trying to create something that isn’t there. In saying this Mckay, redman, Ridley McGrath, combined with 3 above skilled and athletic flankers has the makings of the best defensive group in the comp.

Because of our defensive stagnant ball movement we base our game around stoppage and high press that means we try and lock the ball inside our f50 and get repeat entries. Stoppage game was going very well at the start of the season but has gone from dominant to around average as the season has gone on. Injuries to parish and drop off from
Stringer and inexperience of Durham and Caldwell the reason. The defensive press is much improved on the rutten era, but having to play it so high can lead to us giving up very easy goals when broken. It doesn’t help when our defenders have struggled making simple handballs under pressure.
This is a game plan that has lead us to having near the most inside 50s in the comp but stoppage and press inside 50s are generally contested ones and don’t lead to high scoreboard pressure per inside 50. Our pressure for the first half of the season is better than I have witnessed for a long time so props to the players and Scott for bringing. Hope we can get an entire season of it in the near future.

Scott and co have created a game plan that currently suits our lists personal, but I hope there are more gears to it when our personal improves. I think the list manager and coaches need to decide this clubs direction, because while older players are on the list and marginally better than younger guys at this time you can’t blame coaches for picking them.

All in all I think Scott is the right man and with the right direction this club can be a powerhouse again.

 

[Agronomus]

This aged well

 

[yodellinhank]

If the club wants to be kind, give him his 20 year redundancy package and encourage him to find a job that he's good at.

Plenty of groundskeeping to be done out on the second oval

 

[Rick Ross]

Is there ever going to be a point where the club thinks it owes its fans anything?

What does that look like exactly?

 

[Rick Ross]

My take on why we haven’t been successful.

Off the field - There has definitely been a transitional phase from Essendon just being able to throw money at any problem and the equalisation of the competition. The main inequality that still exists in afl are father son and academy’s, take away all father sons from Collingwood and Geelong would they have been so successful? A little luck/ advantage in those areas could be the difference between winning a premiership or even a final. The 20 year no finals thing, we have been a tad unlucky, saga started a forced rebuild, injuries going into finals, having to play interstate, umpiring in the dogs game etc. but still no final wins in 20 years is horrible.

The saga- although most players have moved on there would definitely be personal at the club that were at the club during the saga. Even though it has been many years I feel there is still some lingering resentment from club personal and the afl and vise versa. AFL pretty much threw Essendon under the bus as soon as the afl brand was under scrutiny, and went out of their way to limit it to Essendon despite plenty of other clubs potentially being involved. Even the rec drug situation at Melbourne has performance enhancing properties and the afl protected them under their own suss system.

Drafting wise, dodo has always tried to build the spine first, which I still don’t know whether it is the best method. Good talls are very hard to come across and the best ones win you flags, but they are also more prone to injury and take longer to develop. Look at Hawkins at Geelong very easy to build a list around a gun key forward who’s also the best forward ruck in the comp. Our top picks have been usually talls, some have come on some haven’t. Hooker Hurley Ryder Daniher Carlisle Ridley Crameri have been good selections in hindsight, even though most have finished their career or moved on from the club. Gumby couldn’t get on the field, Bradley a bust and cox and Reid the jury is still out.
Potentially he could have focused on just the best available instead of focusing on talls. Mcgrath at number 1 was interesting, small defenders aren’t usually drafted in the top couple, but I feel his drafting was a lot due to leadership which we are lacking still to this day. That draft itself wasn’t overly strong. I’m sure you can find names behind him that are better but it’s all hindsight.
The new regime has focused on mids at the top, have they been any better? Could they not have foreseen the development of Caldwell and Durham, or maybe Hobbs and tsatas are primed to be our next core.

The other thing that has hurt Essendon is knowing where the list is actually at. We often start the season well, which means by the end we don’t know whether to rebuild or top up. We usually just make or just miss out on finals and it leads to list managers adding a couple of b/c graders to top up rather than take the long route and trade some b/c graders for more draft capital. If you finish in the bottom 8 you don’t get the 8th best player anymore with academy’s and f/s.

I personally would look to go backwards next season. We have finally got some luck with kako, but we should cut some depth, leverde, Kelly Heppell, potentially trade 2mp, parish, stringer and expose some kids and have an actual rebuild.

On the field right now.

It’s pretty clear to me why we are average. We have no ability to build up the footy from the defensive 50. McGrath, McKay leverde Kelly Heppell, and even redman are average kicks. Not only do they gift the ball back too often in d50 we don’t see the build up and ball movement the elite teams have. This also leads to Scott picking tall teams that can compete in the air and force stoppage further a field. Look at two rucks and jones and cox playing wing. This is also why we always see Martin played back there, him and Ridley are our only two decent kicks. Martin has turned it over far too often trying to create something that isn’t there. In saying this Mckay, redman, Ridley McGrath, combined with 3 above skilled and athletic flankers has the makings of the best defensive group in the comp.

Because of our defensive stagnant ball movement we base our game around stoppage and high press that means we try and lock the ball inside our f50 and get repeat entries. Stoppage game was going very well at the start of the season but has gone from dominant to around average as the season has gone on. Injuries to parish and drop off from
Stringer and inexperience of Durham and Caldwell the reason. The defensive press is much improved on the rutten era, but having to play it so high can lead to us giving up very easy goals when broken. It doesn’t help when our defenders have struggled making simple handballs under pressure.
This is a game plan that has lead us to having near the most inside 50s in the comp but stoppage and press inside 50s are generally contested ones and don’t lead to high scoreboard pressure per inside 50. Our pressure for the first half of the season is better than I have witnessed for a long time so props to the players and Scott for bringing. Hope we can get an entire season of it in the near future.

Scott and co have created a game plan that currently suits our lists personal, but I hope there are more gears to it when our personal improves. I think the list manager and coaches need to decide this clubs direction, because while older players are on the list and marginally better than younger guys at this time you can’t blame coaches for picking them.

All in all I think Scott is the right man and with the right direction this club can be a powerhouse again.

Kind of agree…

The Club has struggled in recent years, on and off the field.

Off the Field:

• The club has faced challenges due to the AFL's equalization policies, making it harder to solve problems with financial power alone.
• The 20-year finals drought is attributed to bad luck, the fallout from the drug saga, injuries, and other external factors.
• The lingering resentment from the drug saga between the club and the AFL is highlighted as a persistent issue.
• The club’s draft strategy, focused on tall players (key positions), is questioned, especially the balance between building a spine and selecting the best available talent.
• The team's fluctuating performance has led to confusion about whether to rebuild or top up, resulting in inconsistent team management.

On the Field:

• Essendon's current struggles are linked to poor ball movement from the defensive 50, with several defenders being identified as average kicks.
• The team's game plan is heavily reliant on stoppages and a high press but lacks efficient ball movement and scoring pressure.
• Despite some improvement under coach Brad Scott, there are concerns that the team is not maximizing its potential.

Overall:
- Essendon needs to decide on a clear direction, potentially rebuilding with younger players, and suggests that Scott is the right coach to lead the club to future success.

 

[P Money]

What does that look like exactly?

Making ruthless decisions to become a better team and perform better and give ourselves a chance of success. Not gifting players extended contracts and undeserved game time because we 'owe them'.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

Draft people that can kick and have footy smarts and try to make them fitter athletes

DON'T draft super athletes who can run and jump but cannot kick, handball or tackle to save themselves

Some of either would be nice. I dont think weve drafted great athletes. Who can run and jump? Caddy and Jones are about the only super impressive physical speciemans weve drafted. Id definitely take some more of them.

 

[Dan26]

This will be the 22nd year in a row that we have finished 7th or lower on the ladder.

22 years in a row.

To put that in perspective, there is a 33% chance of finishing 1st-6th, and a 66% chance of finishing 7th-18th

So, the 66% chance has come up 22 years in a row, assuming all clubs have an equal chance in a salary cap/draft competition.

The chance of this happening is 1 in 9,345

So, either we are incredibly unlucky, or there is something very, very wrong.

 

[Dan26]

Sorry it's actually:

1 in 14,749

I forgot to take into account that it was only a 16-team comp from 2003-2010 and a 17-team comp in 2011

 

[BratPack]

As a Richmond supporter I’ve seen years of failure prior to 2017. I know Richmond are shit right now and my club is in a position far worse than Essendon. I’m not trying to rub your noses in what now looks like another failure season for the Bombers. I thought you might be interested in an outsiders thoughts on why your club fails to deliver.

1 Your list is average and needs to have quality youth added. Hard to accept but you need to fallback and hit the draft before bringing in older high priced castoffs and high priced players. You have a mid table list that has not managed to get young stars that are the foundation of successful clubs.

2 Get rid of players who fail to deliver consistent levels of performance. Trade them out for draft picks.

Players like Stringer stink up your club. He takes all the adulation when he plays a good game and then hides when you lose and his performances are crap. He only seems to be fit at the start of seasons where he’s up for contract renewal.

3 you won’t like this but your team is seen as soft. To many players that fold when real pressure is applied. Bring in a few hard nuts to toughen up your list.
4 Leadership. Your captain is fantastic but just not enough support from others.

5 A club that gets ahead of its self , drinks its own bath water. Win a few games and you start talking finals and flags. You’re pumping up ordinary players and making them out to be better than they really are.

6 stop living in the past. Move on the failed administration and footy department. Your draft selections have been ordinary. DeDoro is woeful. Demand that senior admin moves on failed football department individuals.

7 last but not least. Essendon never seems to go the full journey when it comes to building its list. Just when you look like you’re on the improve, you lose patience and bring in ordinary players from elsewhere instead of adding to your quality youth via the draft and getting games into them.

It takes 5+ years to build a list likely to contend. Bombers seem to go 3 - 4 years then take shortcuts. Your list rebuilds are never completed.

On Point 1: That would require Flogoro to actually scout young talent. He can't.

On Point 2: That would require Flogoro to be a competent list manager. He isn't.

On Point 3: That would require Flogoro to know what toughness is. He doesn't

On Point 4: That would require Flogoro to know what leadership is. He doesn't

On Point 5: That would require our players to harden up. They won't

On Point 6: That would require the board to have a spine. They don't

On Point 7: That would require us to have anyone at the club to have the slightest *ing clue. We don't

And that is why we are s**t.

 

[FootyGuru]

As a Richmond supporter I’ve seen years of failure prior to 2017. I know Richmond are shit right now and my club is in a position far worse than Essendon. I’m not trying to rub your noses in what now looks like another failure season for the Bombers. I thought you might be interested in an outsiders thoughts on why your club fails to deliver.

1 Your list is average and needs to have quality youth added. Hard to accept but you need to fallback and hit the draft before bringing in older high priced castoffs and high priced players. You have a mid table list that has not managed to get young stars that are the foundation of successful clubs.

2 Get rid of players who fail to deliver consistent levels of performance. Trade them out for draft picks.

Players like Stringer stink up your club. He takes all the adulation when he plays a good game and then hides when you lose and his performances are crap. He only seems to be fit at the start of seasons where he’s up for contract renewal.

3 you won’t like this but your team is seen as soft. To many players that fold when real pressure is applied. Bring in a few hard nuts to toughen up your list.
4 Leadership. Your captain is fantastic but just not enough support from others.

5 A club that gets ahead of its self , drinks its own bath water. Win a few games and you start talking finals and flags. You’re pumping up ordinary players and making them out to be better than they really are.

6 stop living in the past. Move on the failed administration and footy department. Your draft selections have been ordinary. DeDoro is woeful. Demand that senior admin moves on failed football department individuals.

7 last but not least. Essendon never seems to go the full journey when it comes to building its list. Just when you look like you’re on the improve, you lose patience and bring in ordinary players from elsewhere instead of adding to your quality youth via the draft and getting games into them.

It takes 5+ years to build a list likely to contend. Bombers seem to go 3 - 4 years then take shortcuts. Your list rebuilds are never completed.

While I don’t disagree with all of your post, it’s not overly insightful and points out obvious issues without going into any real details or solutions. In future if your going to pot a club on its board with your opinion at least give us something that’s not just basic level crap that we could hear on any given day Sen talkback call. Do some actual research.

I also wonder if Richmond know where they are at? Wasn’t long ago that your coach said he wants to play finals and compete and your going to finish last something that other than the saga ban year Essendon hasn’t done since 1921.