Why Does Brisbane Rarely Acknowledge It's Bears Heritage?

[emuboy]

The Brisbane Lions frequently wear old Fitzroy jumpers (such as the pre WW2 design in a game against the Bulldogs this year), and in away or clash games often wear a jumper with the Fitzroy colours (red rather than maroon).

But only twice to my memory (I'll stand corrected on this) have the Brisbane Lions worn a Brisbane Bears style jumper. Once was in the 2004 rivalry round where they wore the maroon with yellow & white vee design the Bears had at the time of the merger in a game against Sydney. The second time was in 2006, where they wore the maroon and gold BB design from the Bears' early years in a game against Hawthorn in a 1980s-themed retro round in Round 16 2006.

While the Bears were not a successful team for most of their decade long existence, I thought that the Brisbane Bears' BB jumper might have been rolled out this year perhaps in a game against North Melbourne to mark 25 years since Brisbane entered the AFL/VFL (the Bears played them in their first game); or the V-style Bears jumper in a 2011 game against North Melbourne (coincidenatally the Bears' last ever opponents in 1996). A Bears jumper might also have been used in a game against the Gold Coast at Carrara, where the Bears were based from 1987-1992.

Does anyone know why the Bears seem to have been largely forgotten?

 

[AllenJakovich13]

I have no idea but I think a bears jumper everytime they play Gold Coast would be neat

 

[Toffee Lion]

Considering the team is still located in Brisbane and is called the 'Brisbane' Lions.

The Bears are not forgotten but I do agree we need a Bears heritage/clash jumper organized.

 

[Slax]

10 years isn't much heritage especially when you changed your jumper halfway through. There isn't much love for the original Bears jumper and the final jumper was only worn for a couple of seasons.

Why does the AFL refuse to recognise the Fitzroy heritage in match win/loss against other sides? Either commence everything from 1997 or include all stats.

 

[QS]

Would love to see a bears jumper. I think the whole revert to fitzroy style jumpers is to keep the old roy boys placated.
I'm sure though there are some Bears supporters who weren't pleased too.. works both ways.

 

[Gibbke]

I find it ridiculous that the AFL's official position on stats for the Brisbane team is to include all Bears/Lions stats as belonging to the one team, but recognise Fitzroy as a separate defunct entity.

The W\L totals for Brisbane include the dozen or so games they played against Fitzroy. Follow this through to its logocal conclusion, and you are crediting Brisbane for matches they played "against themselves"...

As for the OP, yes, a bit of Bears recognition is due. Doesn't matter they only lasted ten years - they were ten pretty unique years! I was at the 2006 game, and it was pretty cool to watch a strong Lions lineup in action wearing a jumper associated with failure, basically...try to imagine the threepeat with them wearing the koala! I still have footage of the Bears reserves premiership in 1991, where they are in that jumper. It was also good on that night to see original Bears supporters coming out of the woodwork, with their old wool Bears guernseys...one guy was wearing one with holes in it, with the felt logo half peeled off through overwashing, presumably...! You couldn't help but respect someone who'd been there from the start, through all the bullshit years, to eventually see the payoff...

 

[Gibbke]

Would love to see a bears jumper. I think the whole revert to fitzroy style jumpers is to keep the old roy boys placated.
I'm sure though there are some Bears supporters who weren't pleased too.. works both ways.

The 1996 Bears themselves weren't happy with the merger. They felt they'd worked their arses off trying to bring respect to the team, and it was all being hijacked and manipulated...

 

[Simple Jack]

I find it ridiculous that the AFL's official position on stats for the Brisbane team is to include all Bears/Lions stats as belonging to the one team, but recognise Fitzroy as a separate defunct entity.

The W\L totals for Brisbane include the dozen or so games they played against Fitzroy. Follow this through to its logocal conclusion, and you are crediting Brisbane for matches they played "against themselves"...

As for the OP, yes, a bit of Bears recognition is due. Doesn't matter they only lasted ten years - they were ten pretty unique years! I was at the 2006 game, and it was pretty cool to watch a strong Lions lineup in action wearing a jumper associated with failure, basically...try to imagine the threepeat with them wearing the koala! I still have footage of the Bears reserves premiership in 1991, where they are in that jumper. It was also good on that night to see original Bears supporters coming out of the woodwork, with their old wool Bears guernseys...one guy was wearing one with holes in it, with the felt logo half peeled off through overwashing, presumably...! You couldn't help but respect someone who'd been there from the start, through all the bullshit years, to eventually see the payoff...

Roylions Fitzroy alert will be going off so standby for a response on that.

Brisbane should definitely wear the last Bears jumper, one of the best ever imo.

 

[emuboy]

I find it ridiculous that the AFL's official position on stats for the Brisbane team is to include all Bears/Lions stats as belonging to the one team, but recognise Fitzroy as a separate defunct entity.

The W\L totals for Brisbane include the dozen or so games they played against Fitzroy. Follow this through to its logocal conclusion, and you are crediting Brisbane for matches they played "against themselves"...

As for the OP, yes, a bit of Bears recognition is due. Doesn't matter they only lasted ten years - they were ten pretty unique years! I was at the 2006 game, and it was pretty cool to watch a strong Lions lineup in action wearing a jumper associated with failure, basically...try to imagine the threepeat with them wearing the koala! I still have footage of the Bears reserves premiership in 1991, where they are in that jumper. It was also good on that night to see original Bears supporters coming out of the woodwork, with their old wool Bears guernseys...one guy was wearing one with holes in it, with the felt logo half peeled off through overwashing, presumably...! You couldn't help but respect someone who'd been there from the start, through all the bullshit years, to eventually see the payoff...

You make some interesting points.

It is almost like the Bears have been retconned out of existence at times. One good example of this is the club greatest winning margin, where it lists a 162 point victory by the Brisbane Lions over the Sydney Swans in Round 8 1993. The 1993 Lions must have been a remarkable team, as they beat reigning premiers WEst Coast at the WACA on the Friday night, then backed it up with a 27-goal demolition of the Swans at the GABBA on the Sunday afternoon.

The 2001 premiership especially was great, as it brought the premiership to Queensland for the first time, and ended a 57-year drought for Fitzroy fans, but I have often wondered how things would have turned out if there had been no merger, with Fitzroy moving to South Australia to become their second team instead of Port Adelaide Power, and Brisbane remaining as the Bears.

With hindsight, the SA move might not have been such a bad idea. Fitzroy wore SA colours, and the Lion emblem has a British flavour to it, which might have appealed to the heavily populated, English-oriented Northern Adelaide areas, where Central Districts have built a dynasty. Add to that a fierce rivalry between the Crows and Fitzroy in the years they played each other (1991 controversial match, two thrillers in 1993, a fierce 1994 battle at a wet Football Park on a Sunday night; and the huge upset in Adelaide in 1995) and the Adelaide City Lions have merit.

But would the Bears have become the superpower that the Lions would become in taking out the 2001, 2002 & 2003 flags? And would the Adelaide City Lions have beaten the Brisbane Bears in the 2004 GF?

And just one more hypotheical (although it will never happen); if Fitzroy withdrew from the joint venture, would Brisbane automatically revert to the Bears?

 

[Balony_pony16]

Why don't guys brag about rooting the fat girl at a party out the back and out of sight????? Answer this and you will have your answer!

 

[MacMum]

Would love to see a bears jumper. I think the whole revert to fitzroy style jumpers is to keep the old roy boys placated.
I'm sure though there are some Bears supporters who weren't pleased too.. works both ways.

Couldn't agree more....and Slax, we may only have been around a short while, and changed our jumper twice(big deal)....but we still loved our Bears, and were shattered just like the Fitzroy people were..

..and I loved our last jumper....the first one was hideous

 

[questionable]

With hindsight, the SA move might not have been such a bad idea. Fitzroy wore SA colours, and the Lion emblem has a British flavour to it, which might have appealed to the heavily populated, English-oriented Northern Adelaide areas, where Central Districts have built a dynasty. Add to that a fierce rivalry between the Crows and Fitzroy in the years they played each other (1991 controversial match, two thrillers in 1993, a fierce 1994 battle at a wet Football Park on a Sunday night; and the huge upset in Adelaide in 1995) and the Adelaide City Lions have merit.

good idea. here's a better one: south adelaide should relocate to victoria where they will become the biggest team in the AFL

 

[Hollow Knight]

We are going to wear a Bears heritage jumper in 2014 to coincide with our next Hall of Fame night.

 

[Haso]

An interesting point, but Fitzroy trump the Bears in historical lengthiness. The last Bears geurnsey to be worn was clearly the best, and as BrownDog says, there are plans to wear it in 2014.

It really does take away from the fact that the mid 90s Bears team fought tooth and nail for respect, making the final in 95, and finishing 3rd on the ladder in 96.

 

[Jamurp]

They still have 'BB FC' on the back of their jumpers. So I guess thats something.

 

[RogersResults]

10 years isn't much heritage especially when you changed your jumper halfway through. There isn't much love for the original Bears jumper and the final jumper was only worn for a couple of seasons.

Why does the AFL refuse to recognise the Fitzroy heritage in match win/loss against other sides? Either commence everything from 1997 or include all stats.

The AFL Records and Statistics committee decided that Fitzroy's records went from 1897 to 1996 and Brisbane whether they had a koala* or a lion on their chest were one continuous entity from 1987 to the present and not two separate clubs one of which went extinct along with Fitzroy at the end of 1996.

Below is a table of wins and losses if "Brisbane Bears" ceased as a club at the end of 1996 and Fitzroy continued as the "Brisbane Lions" same as the Sydney Swans were a continuation of South Melbourne.

1897-2012 R21 Part.​

​

That this never happened is indicative that the so-called "merger" was really nothing of the sort. This is amply explained elsewhere in 'Big Footy' (search for 'Fitzroy merger')​

​

* Its possible that somebody in the original franchise actually thought that the koala was a "bear".​

 

[Gibbke]

You make some interesting points.

It is almost like the Bears have been retconned out of existence at times. One good example of this is the club greatest winning margin, where it lists a 162 point victory by the Brisbane Lions over the Sydney Swans in Round 8 1993. The 1993 Lions must have been a remarkable team, as they beat reigning premiers WEst Coast at the WACA on the Friday night, then backed it up with a 27-goal demolition of the Swans at the GABBA on the Sunday afternoon.

But would the Bears have become the superpower that the Lions would become in taking out the 2001, 2002 & 2003 flags? And would the Adelaide City Lions have beaten the Brisbane Bears in the 2004 GF?

And just one more hypotheical (although it will never happen); if Fitzroy withdrew from the joint venture, would Brisbane automatically revert to the Bears?

You could see definite improvement in the 1993 Bears after they axed a lot of players in 1991-92 and went for a youth policy. Robert Walls has to be given a lot of credit for what he set in motion. At the same time, the Swans were absolutely abysmal - the Gabba game wasn't entirely reflective of each team in 1993, just a day where both were polar opposites. The Swans did have better days, the Bears did have "Bad News" days. By the time the merger came around, the Lions already had their team in place, the new ex-Fitzroy players made minimal impact outside Johnson and maybe Boyd, and I personally believe they would have been a flag-ready team in any case. Threepeat, who knows...the Victorian support was a big help, and a merger means new people with new expertises and new energies...

 

[Gibbke]

Roylions Fitzroy alert will be going off so standby for a response on that.

Brisbane should definitely wear the last Bears jumper, one of the best ever imo.

We've already had that chat. If you have two people in a room, one who's just lost his elderly dad, and another who's just lost his wife and kids, does that mean the guy who's lost his dad has to say nothing ever, and always remember "well, that guy has it worse than you, so shut up"....? Bit harsh, isn't it...Fitzroy fans have a right to hate footy itself, but noone has the right to tell Bears fans they have nothing to commemorate...and I always think back to that guy at the 2006 game with the ratty 1987 jumper...GWS and GC fans should certainly empathise with someone watching a new team they've adopted break out of their egg and try to survive in a hostile world, and then gain some hope from the fact that he eventually got to watch that team achieve what it did...

 

[QS]

We are going to wear a Bears heritage jumper in 2014 to coincide with our next Hall of Fame night.

Should be a regular fixture.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Should be a regular fixture.

I came from a Bears background and am personally happy with what we got as part of the deal.

We have worn several Bears heritage jumpers over the journey, but most importantly we got to keep the team in Brisbane. That is the kicker.

Just because opposition supporters claim that we ignore the Bears side doesn't make it true.

 

[millsy29gopies]

Should be a regular fixture.

Agreed, definitely one of the best footy guernseys to be worn. Should make it a fixture, one game per year in that jumper.

 

[Roylion]

Roylions Fitzroy alert will be going off so standby for a response on that.

Perhaps you should answer the question then, O knowledgable one. Then I wouldn't have to.

 

[Roylion]

I find it ridiculous that the AFL's official position on stats for the Brisbane team is to include all Bears/Lions stats as belonging to the one team, but recognise Fitzroy as a separate defunct entity.

Fitzroy is a separate entity. The club was not merged with the Brisbane Bears. The Brisbane Bears won the right to represent Fitzroy's identity in the AFL and changed their branding to suit.

The W\L totals for Brisbane include the dozen or so games they played against Fitzroy. Follow this through to its logocal conclusion, and you are crediting Brisbane for matches they played "against themselves"...

They didn't play against themselves at all. The Brisbane Lions were legally formed in 1987, not 1883.

 

[JackFlash]

The Bears are forgotten and rightly so, the Brisbane Lions should be wearing Fitzroy jumpers in every away game they play in Melbourne. It wasn't really a merger it was a take over and the AFL wanted Fitzroy out and the Brisbane Lions created and located in Brisbane. It was never going to work having a team called the Brisbane Bears playing out of the Gold Coast some 80km from Brisbane itself. The Bears are a piece of football history best forgotten.

 

[Roylion]

The 1996 Bears themselves weren't happy with the merger. They felt they'd worked their arses off trying to bring respect to the team, and it was all being hijacked and manipulated...

You mean the supporters, surely?

The Brisbane Bears directors had been chasing a merger with Fitzroy since 1994 at least. The Bears wrote the terms of the 'merger agreement' which were signed off by the Fitzroy administrator Michael Brennan, against the wishes of the elected Fitzroy directors. Fitzroy Football Club thus are still bound by some of the clauses of that arrangement to this day.