Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today.... part 2

[Chief]

Reminder: This isn't the Israel/Hamas thread. Go to the Israel/Hamas thread if you want to talk about that. Thanks.

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

Part I: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-declare-war-after-hamas-attack.1371828/page-47#post-81443295 Thread Rules: Alright. I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have...

www.bigfooty.com

Thread rules update:

From this point if you're going to make a connection between Islam and the crime rate, you need to demonstrate causation in your post. If you do not, I'm going to infract you for the inherent racism in the position you're taking.

 

[demondavey]

This isn't necessarily true.

i can think of examples of other faiths and even faithless people acting in similar ways but I dunno if I want to cite them cos some involved me or people I knew. In my situation the father was an orthodox Christian.

I think the common denominator is controlling men who are jerks and think they're entitled to do what they want.

I think this is right. Controlling men. Happens across the board.

 

[demondavey]

Well there sure are enough of those. But this is taking that to something of an extreme.

Do you think the level of tolerance for interfaith relationships is the same for Muslims and Christians, generally speaking?

To a degree. Yes. I know plenty of wealthy white men that have basically said people of a certain colour are off limits to their daughters.

 

[mcnulty]

To a degree. Yes. I know plenty of wealthy white men that have basically said people of a certain colour are off limits to their daughters.

Oh come on…they’ve told you that?

 

[demondavey]

Oh come on…they’ve told you that?

Yep. Had two boomers pull that. About 10 years back. Partners of accounting firms, big ones. Very old school conservative types. It’s that real upper crust private school boy stuff. Granted they’d not approve of them marrying a white plumber either. It’s all very incestuous at the top.

Shouldn’t have said ‘plenty’. But only had conversations with a few on that stuff. Few of them were knocking quotas etc in the workplace or the more broadening of cultural standards away from upper crust white crowds.

 

[mcnulty]

It’s common for Muslims in Australia to conduct their personal affairs according to Sharia Law. And as long as they’re not breaking Federal or State they’re fee to do so.

Sharia allows men interfaith marriages, but prohibits women.

Legal recognition of Sharia law

This paper examines arguments that have been raised for and against the official recognition of Sharia law and finds that, on balance, the status quo should prevail.

aifs.gov.au

 

[ferball]

Well there sure are enough of those. But this is taking that to something of an extreme.

Do you think the level of tolerance for interfaith relationships is the same for Muslims and Christians, generally speaking?

Depends ... some Christian sects are pretty insular and intolerant and some Muslims are the opposite.

The Exclusive Bretheren don't even allow marriage to other types of Christianity for example. And they actually had the ear of government in Australia, at least during the Howard years.

The attitude to women that gave someone the idea they had the right to stab their kid is prevalent in the sub continent among all the religions there, maybe not among the Buddhists but i wouldn't know for sure.

 

[mcnulty]

Depends ... some Christian sects are pretty insular and intolerant and some Muslims are the opposite.

The Exclusive Bretheren don't even allow marriage to other types of Christianity for example. And they actually had the ear of government in Australia, at least during the Howard years.

The attitude to women that gave someone the idea they had the right to stab their kid is prevalent in the sub continent among all the religions there, maybe not among the Buddhists but i wouldn't know for sure.

Now you’re comparing to isolated (and derided) Christian cults? See previous post.

 

[demondavey]

Now you’re comparing to isolated (and derided) Christian cults? See previous post.

Come on. Just because sharia law says it doesn’t mean it’s common place. Saying it’s common is a big assumption. In terms of influence within the legal and political system Christianity has swung a lot of power and been very influential.

Like it’s been mentioned before. This is a big male power issue. Sure, I get some of these religions are patriarchal but we’ve got some serious domestic violence issues here without even dipping our toes in religion.

 

[demondavey]

Now you’re comparing to isolated (and derided) Christian cults? See previous post.

He isn’t ‘comparing’ you’ve got to be very careful with the way you frame language. When you say compare you’re forming a likeliness or commonality. He gave you an example of what else happens within religion out there in different persuasions.

 

[mcnulty]

He isn’t ‘comparing’ you’ve got to be very careful with the way you frame language. When you say compare you’re forming a likeliness or commonality. He gave you an example of what else happens within religion out there in different persuasions.

I think it would be very commonplace for Muslims to be guided by Sharia law wrt relationships etc. Again see the link above.

 

[demondavey]

I think it would be very commonplace for Muslims to be guided by Sharia law wrt relationships etc. Again see the link above.

Are we talking about relationships or being an abusive pig? Big difference. At the end of the day you can’t abuse your partner or stab a family member. You just can’t. Following sharia law means you can’t be carrying on like that. If the rules of sharia law are patriarchal and people are happy, fine, that’s ok. But I’ve got no issue with prosecution being levelled if you beat or stab or do this or that.

 

[mcnulty]

Are we talking about relationships or being an abusive pig? Big difference.

We’ve moved on from abuse. We’re talking about adherence to religious laws which allow intermarriage for men but forbid it for women.

 

[demondavey]

We’ve moved on from abuse. We’re talking about adherence to religious laws which allow intermarriage for men but forbid it for women.

That’s not very different to Catholic families not condoning same sex marriage in a church. I am not seeing too many issues here, you don’t have to abide by religious law in Australia. You’re governed by state and federal law. That’s the good thing about Australia, you’ve got that option.

 

[mcnulty]

That’s not very different to Catholic families not condoning same sex marriage in a church. I am not seeing too many issues here, you don’t have to abide religious law in Australia. You’re governed by state and federal law. That’s the good thing about Australia, you’ve got that option.

I realise that. I’m saying the percentage of Muslims who adhere to religious laws in regards to personal governance would far outstrip Christians. And some of those are inherently sexist

 

[barreness]

Not sure if this one or the woke thread

Man claiming to be the second coming beheads father. Manifesto is interesting to say the least, woke mobs and Biden being the fake president just the start
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/31/us/justin-mohn-father-beheaded-biden-video/index.html

Extremist religious types going full horseshoe

 

[demondavey]

I realise that. I’m saying the percentage of Muslims who adhere to religious laws in regards to personal governance would far outstrip Christians. And some of those are inherently sexist

Mate, there’s sexism everywhere. I don’t think it would outstrip Christians. If you’re talking about dyed in the wool Christian types then they aren’t condoning it in their households.

I’d not be equating Muslims with sexism. I’d look pretty closely at Australia overall as being sexist, with only recently things changing a bit for the better.

 

[ferball]

We’ve moved on from abuse. We’re talking about adherence to religious laws which allow intermarriage for men but forbid it for women.

That's not all of Islam is it?

I don't really know but over the years I've heard things like Islamic divorce laws being fairer for women 500 years ago than they were till recently and other economic things about society being tilted in favour of women compared to the west, before feminism.

 

[JackOutback]

Now you’re comparing to isolated (and derided) Christian cults? See previous post.

The Christian Brethren had more influence on government policy at one point that Islam has. Or Hillsong, for a more recent example.

Is it more dangerous to be a larger religion or actually influence governments?

 

[mcnulty]

The Christian Brethren had more influence on government policy at one point that Islam has. Or Hillsong, for a more recent example.

Is it more dangerous to be a larger religion or actually influence governments?

Who said anything about influence on governments?

 

[mcnulty]

Though having said that, it’s thought that Muslim (and other ethnic minorities) to some extent explained the strong No vote in western Sydney to the same sex marriage referendum. This Muslim certainly thinks so:

“As a Muslim parent living in Australia, how do you cope with that? There is no space to follow Islam selectively – either you are a Muslim or you are not, there is no such thing as a non-practicing Muslim or a gay Muslim given that homosexuality is strictly prohibited and in the majority of the Muslim countries, it is punishable by death.

Putting aside religious belief, homosexuality reflects on a family's respectability and its social standing. If your child had a same-sex marriage, not only would the child be banished from the community but your entire family would be ridiculed and ostracised.”

Why western Sydney voted 'no'

Many ethnic and religious communities that reside in Blaxland and Watson are on a different social and moral tangent to electorates elsewhere in Sydney.

www.smh.com.au

I don’t see these sort of tensions (those between an increasingly secular West and waves of more socially conservative migrants) as being at all insurmountable, but to deny they exist is delusional.

 

[HairyO]

Depends ... some Christian sects are pretty insular and intolerant and some Muslims are the opposite.

The Exclusive Bretheren don't even allow marriage to other types of Christianity for example. And they actually had the ear of government in Australia, at least during the Howard years.

The attitude to women that gave someone the idea they had the right to stab their kid is prevalent in the sub continent among all the religions there, maybe not among the Buddhists but i wouldn't know for sure.

Comparing Christian cults to Muslims probably says all it needs to say...

 

[ferball]

Comparing Christian cults to Muslims probably says all it needs to say...

What does that mean?

 

[HairyO]

What does that mean?

If we need to find splinter / cult Christian groups to compare to Islam, it says a bit about Islam.

 

[ferball]

If we need to find splinter / cult Christian groups to compare to Islam, it says a bit about Islam.

Its really only been a generation or two that this has changed tho. When I was a kid Prod's marrying Catholics was frowned upon and in parts of the world people could end up dead.

When I was a young man one girlfriend was from a very strict Christian family that wanted marriage along ethnic/religious lines. Meanwhile there are now secular leaning (and outright secular) Muslims/people of Muslim background in Australia who are open to relationships with mixed ethnicities and religions.

 

[faible]

If we need to find splinter / cult Christian groups to compare to Islam, it says a bit about Islam.

Lumping all ~ 1.9 billion Muslims in together as a homogenous entity seems pretty silly to me.

We don't do the same for Christians or Jews, funny that.