Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today.... part 2

[Chief]

Reminder:

This isn't the Israel/Hamas thread.

Go to the Israel/Hamas thread if you want to talk about that.

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

Part I: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/israel-declare-war-after-hamas-attack.1371828/page-47#post-81443295 Thread Rules: Alright. I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have...

www.bigfooty.com

Thanks.

 

[ShanDog]

FMD

What's the difference for the victim.
The African American who gets shot by the police for no reason.
The institutional enforcement of racist policies in dictatorships.

And of course this never happens to people of other ethnicities, including white people. No, no, of course not. It's all a big conspiracy. Brain rot.

 

[Number37]

If you're so worried about ad homs, maybe don't be so aggressive with your posting?

This isn't hard to follow, but try. Postmodernist ideas are no good for applying to lived reality. Lived experience is no good for applying to population-level problems. These are not statement in conflict with each other.

The brain rot you have is evident in the post where you claim that being black and getting pulled over in the USA will mean you face some sort of abuse, violence or death. This is bullshit and there's myriad evidence to directly refute that. But because you care more about ideology than truth, any argument or evidence that doesn't support your point of view is immediately dismissed. Incidentally, this is why just about anything that comes out of your mouth/fingertips online can also be summarily dismissed.

Another ad hom.
How very unsurprising.
More pseudo intellectual nonsense.
How every unsurprising.

It isn't very hard to follow.
Western society didn't create human rights.
Western society is just as shit as tin pot dictatorships at protecting human rights.

A f'ing fundamental principle of human rights is that you can't be locked up without criminal conviction.
Who locks people up without criminal conviction?

What's the lived reality for people seeking asylum???
Asylum seekers are just one example.

Stick your post modern pseudo intellectual nonsense up your Christmas Island.

 

[ShanDog]

Number37 how many black people were shot by police last year? Have a guess without looking it up.

 

[ShanDog]

Another ad hom.
How very unsurprising.
More pseudo intellectual nonsense.
How every unsurprising.

It isn't very hard to follow.
Western society didn't create human rights.
Western society is just as s**t as tin pot dictatorships at protecting human rights.

A f'ing fundamental principle of human rights is that you can't be locked up without criminal conviction.
Who locks people up without criminal conviction?

What's the lived reality for people seeking asylum???
Asylum seekers are just one example.

Stick your post modern pseudo intellectual nonsense up your Christmas Island.

I look forward to reading you blogs about your move to Afghanistan. The currency exchange will work tremendously in your favour, and apparently it would be no different to living here, so go for it.

 

[Number37]

I look forward to reading you blogs about your move to Afghanistan. The currency exchange will work tremendously in your favour, and apparently it would be no different to living here, so go for it.

Just as I look forward to reading your pseudo intellectual blogs about your move to this mythical Western society that protects human rights.

 

[Number37]

And of course this never happens to people of other ethnicities, including white people. No, no, of course not. It's all a big conspiracy. Brain rot.

It happening to people of all ethnicities proves that these human rights aren't as protected as you are trying to make out.
Hells, even white people are copping the rough end of the pineapple.
White people.
Copping the rough end of the pineapple.


Everybody is getting screwed with little recourse to human rights, but yeah sure, Western societies are the bomb.

 

[ShanDog]

Yep, North Korea have the right idea, eh?

 

[Number37]

Yep, the MAGA crowd and Donald Trump have the right idea, eh?

 

[ShanDog]

Yep, the MAGA crowd and Donald Trump have the right idea, eh?

Nope. You feel like those are the only two options - North Korea or MAGA?

 

[Seeds]

Just as I look forward to reading your pseudo intellectual blogs about your move to this mythical Western society that protects human rights.

You are able to protest against the government in this country. Thats cos of a protection of human rights.

Do you worry about the government kidnapping you at night for what you post on big footy? No? Thats cos of human rights.

Do minorities such as homosexuals get imprisoned for who they are? No? Its cos of human rights (and basic empathy).

Do you get to vote? Once again its human rights. Democracy only exists if society values human rights as the notion of everyone getting a vote only exists if the prevailing ideology is based on individual rights.

To say western society doesnt protect human rights more then any other countries and is therefore equivalent to iran, nth korea, china etc is utterly false to the same degree that arguing climate change is not real and covid vaccines dont work is utterly false. You are posting gross misinformation. Please stop.

 

[Gralin]

You are able to protest against the government in this country. Thats cos of a protection of human rights.

Do you worry about the government kidnapping you at night for what you post on big footy? No? Thats cos of human rights.

Do minorities such as homosexuals get imprisoned for who they are? No? Its cos of human rights (and basic empathy).

Do you get to vote? Once again its human rights. Democracy only exists if society values human rights as the notion of everyone getting a vote only exists if the prevailing ideology is based on individual rights.

To say western society doesnt protect human rights more then any other countries and is therefore equivalent to iran, nth korea, china etc is utterly false to the same degree that arguing climate change is not real and covid vaccines dont work is utterly false. You are posting gross misinformation. Please stop.

Could you point me to Australia's Bill of Rights?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Could you point me to Australia's Bill of Rights?

No , but it doesn't make anything in that post less true.

 

[Number37]

You are able to protest against the government in this country. Thats cos of a protection of human rights.

Do you worry about the government kidnapping you at night for what you post on big footy? No? Thats cos of human rights.

Do minorities such as homosexuals get imprisoned for who they are? No? Its cos of human rights (and basic empathy).

Do you get to vote? Once again its human rights. Democracy only exists if society values human rights as the notion of everyone getting a vote only exists if the prevailing ideology is based on individual rights.

To say western society doesnt protect human rights more then any other countries and is therefore equivalent to iran, nth korea, china etc is utterly false to the same degree that arguing climate change is not real and covid vaccines dont work is utterly false. You are posting gross misinformation. Please stop.

The Howard government suspended the Racial Discrimination Act so that they could undertake the Northern Territory intervention.

Think about that for a moment. They suspended the law that bans discrimination so that they could discriminate.

As the High Court has recently confirmed, you cannot lock people up indefinitely without criminal charge.
We have been locking up asylum seekers indefinitely for the last 20 years. Why?
Remember that amongst those asylum seekers were children.
Children, that a report found were getting traumatized and developing mental health issues, from getting locked in cages. Where is their human rights?

Human rights are universal.
You don't get to pick and choose when they apply and when they don't or to whom they apply and to whom they don't.
If you do either of those things then they aren't universal and they can't be rights.

I'm an Australian. I have human rights. Except when the government decides that I don't.

 

[Number37]

You are able to protest against the government in this country. Thats cos of a protection of human rights.

They have changed the law and want to change it even more to attempt to prevent people protesting.
Look at all the hoo haa about the pro-Palestinian protests.
Look at the targeting of climate protestors.

When it suits, we are the capital of human rights.
When it doesn't suit, lock them up, deny them their rights. Because reasons.

 

[Number37]

To say western society doesnt protect human rights more then any other countries and is therefore equivalent to iran, nth korea, china etc is utterly false to the same degree that arguing climate change is not real and covid vaccines dont work is utterly false. You are posting gross misinformation. Please stop.

That's a stupid, Shandog like, argument.
It's either Nth Korea, China, Iran or a utopian Western society.

If you are part of the in crowd in Western society, you are good and your human rights are relatively good.
If you are not part of that in crowd in Western Society, you rights are trampled over in so many ways they cease to be rights.
We as Australians have human rights that we are very keen on not sharing with other people.
Why?
Why do we champion being able to protest at the same time as championing locking up asylum seekers?
(that's just one example)

 

[Gralin]

No , but it doesn't make anything in that post less true.

Actually it does
We're one of the only so called liberal democracies that doesn't have a Bill of rights

It's how things like all these laws criminalising protest actions can pop up around the country

 

[Cmarsh]

Not alot of Islam being talked about in this thread.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Not alot of Islam being talked about in this thread.

It's not raining.

 

[barreness]

Liberalism is a facade ret conned by conservatives who want to shit on other societies. All those rights that they now champion were fought for by activists and the like; often through death, injury, and illegality. Against those who now talk them up as a cornerstone of their society

These supposed human rights will be wound back when the economic political climate changes for the worse, which it currently is. The rise of far right parties in the 'bastion' of liberalism in western Europe recently, 'scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds'

 

[Crankyhawk]

It happening to people of all ethnicities proves that these human rights aren't as protected as you are trying to make out.
Hells, even white people are copping the rough end of the pineapple.
White people.
Copping the rough end of the pineapple.


Everybody is getting screwed with little recourse to human rights, but yeah sure, Western societies are the bomb.

I would like to know which non western country is preferred. Not arguing that any society is ideal. Off top of head I would have the one’s closest to my ideals and values being western ones (Nz, Canada, Australia)

 

[Number37]

I would like to know which non western country is preferred. Not arguing that any society is ideal. Off top of head I would have the one’s closest to my ideals and values being western ones (Nz, Canada, Australia)

Japan
Singapore

 

[Gralin]

Japan
Singapore

Yeah not sure about that, really depends what you mean by ideal

I dont think there are any idea states btw, just differences in whats good and bad in different places and how much good vs bad


Singapore has the death penalty including for drug related crimes and SSM isn't legal and its a rather authoritarian state

Japan also has the death penalty though they didnt execute anyone last year they have 100+ people waiting, you can't be a japanese citizen even if you are born in the country and have never lived anywhere else if your parents aren't japanase, their immigration and asylum seeking systems are very like ours as well

 

[Number37]

Yeah not sure about that, really depends what you mean by ideal

I dont think there are any idea states btw, just differences in whats good and bad in different places and how much good vs bad


Singapore has the death penalty including for drug related crimes and SSM isn't legal and its a rather authoritarian state

Japan also has the death penalty though they didnt execute anyone last year they have 100+ people waiting, you can't be a japanese citizen even if you are born in the country and have never lived anywhere else if your parents aren't japanase, their immigration and asylum seeking systems are very like ours as well

There is no perfect society.
Death penalty for drug related crimes is over the top and so is some of their other policies (SSM), but on a whole Singapore wouldn't be bad place to live for MOST people...compared to Australia (for example)
Ditto Japan.

If you are straight male, living in any of the strictly Islamic countries, you would have relatively no real issues.
If you are rich straight male, living in almost any country in the world, you would have relatively low real issues.

Most countries treat same sex relationships horrendously.
The idea that Western society treats same sex relationships soooooo much better than 'others' is not based in fact.
The same people that questioned the right of same sex couples to marry (for example) are the ones that love to point to same sex couples being able to marry as some sort of distinguishing feature that makes the West look soooooo much better than elsewhere at same sex relationship rights.

The foundation of Western society is capitalism.
Capitalism, by definition, tramples over any rights that gets in its way.

 

[Gralin]

There is no perfect society.

agreed

Death penalty for drug related crimes is over the top and so is some of their other policies (SSM), but on a whole Singapore wouldn't be bad place to live for MOST people...compared to Australia (for example)
Ditto Japan.

again I think it depends and I think as you've said below the criteria is pretty specific

If you are straight male, living in any of the strictly Islamic countries, you would have relatively no real issues.
If you are rich straight male, living in almost any country in the world, you would have relatively low real issues.

Most countries treat same sex relationships horrendously.
The idea that Western society treats same sex relationships soooooo much better than 'others' is not based in fact.
The same people that questioned the right of same sex couples to marry (for example) are the ones that love to point to same sex couples being able to marry as some sort of distinguishing feature that makes the West look soooooo much better than elsewhere at same sex relationship rights.

don't disagree

The foundation of Western society is capitalism.

these days yes

Capitalism, by definition, tramples over any rights that gets in its way.

yes and in Australia we don't even have a bill for it to trample over

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Actually it does
We're one of the only so called liberal democracies that doesn't have a Bill of rights

It's how things like all these laws criminalising protest actions can pop up around the country

Sign shmine. Piece of paper.
Thailand long ago signed the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Their history of human rights probably can't be considered better than Australias.