TAS Will a team go to Tassie

[Righteo]

No.
If Tassie gets a team it will be a new one, probably with a 3rd WA side at more or less the same time.

Since you live there, what are your thoughts on it being a Canberra side instead?

 

[Roylion]

He could have easily removed all the extra funding North were getting.

The Commission make those decisions and would have to justify them, other than wanting to force North to the Gold Coast. They woud have opened themselves up to possible legal challenge and an extremely negative public backlash, along the lines of what occured in 1996. North Melbourne in 2008, had just received government grants in relation to the Arden Street redevelopment of $5,150,000 and that had to be taken into account as well. The Club was to receive $12.5 million between 2008-2010 from the Federal and State governments.

AFL Clubs can (and have) taken legal action against the AFL in the past.

For example in 1992 the AFL attempted to delay Fitzroy's dividend in order to force a merger in 1993 by getting Westpac to call in a loan. In order to pressure Fitzroy to merge or liquidate, the AFL refused to guarantee Fitzroy's 1992-1993 dividend (which they were going to receive anyway) which Fitzroy wanted re-directed to Westpac, despite AFL club directors agreeing to do so. Westpac wouldn't accept the re-direction unless the AFL guaranteed that Fitzroy would receive at least $1.1 million (which they were). It took the threat of legal action and the support of other clubs for the AFL to finally relent. On another occasion the AFL refused to release a debenture charge over the Fitzroy Club Hotel for $250,000....until legal action by Fitzroy was threatened.

North Melbourne threatened legal action against the AFL in 1997 and came to a settlement.

The AFL tried to get Fitzroy to merge on a number of occasions without success. At least twice the AFL offered to take Fitzroy's licence in return for funding, re-issue the licence to a new entity Fitzroy Lions Pty. Ltd., with the shares in the new company owned by the AFL and the board comprised of Fitzroy directors and AFL appointed directors and AFL appointed general manager. It was very clear that it was the only way they could merge or relocate Fitzroy, without the agreement of the club.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Since you live there, what are your thoughts on it being a Canberra side instead?

I can't see it. Not in the short to medium term at least. The AFL seem to want the ACT to be part of the GWS fan area for a while yet. (I think its only slowing down GWS penetration into Sydney, they don't look committed to being a western Sydney team; but smarter heads than mine make that call.)

I also don't see it as very likely my home state (Tas) gets a team.
Although, coronavirus might actually make that more likely due to the decreased costs of running a team. If (very big If) it becomes only $25m a year to run a small club, that might be affordable (until the inevitable spat over where finals are held) assuming the Tas economy isn't hit too badly in the aftermath. And Tas might not suffer the same impact, as it had less to fall from to begin with. $40m a year is a big ask in a small, dispersed demographic.

 

[Del191229]

Under the terms of St Kilda's constitution that may be legally impossible to do, if the members own the club. St Kilda holds a licence to compete in the AFL competition, but that does not give the AFL ownership. In 2008, the AFL tried to buy North Melbourne's shares in which case had they succeeded they could have relocated the club to the Gold Coast as the AFL would have owned it.

Indeed, and in that period there were very good North people who genuinely thought there was no other way who wanted to go to the GC and were happy to sell their shares.

If the AFL puts a gun at the St Kilda's boards back, they may recommend the same thing, and it may pass.

The AFL aren't gunna say "we're relocating St Kilda". They are lots smarter now, they learn from their defeats.

They would present themselves as St Kilda's saviour.

Having Lethlean down there would make me very nervous if I were a Saints fan.

 

[Del191229]

Not if they can't meet the minimum requirements and field a competitive team.

Oh man, please give up.

I get your worldview is RICHMOND BIG RICHMOND GOOD SMALL CLUB SMALL MUST DIE but the world is more complex than that.

You actually can't conceive of the matters being discussed.

 

[Del191229]

He could have easily removed all the extra funding North were getting. They would have fallen over and been forced to accept. The Fabled White Knights never existed. James Brayshaw bluffed him. James ******* Brayshaw.

Santa could have brought you a bike for Christmas that year too and you wouldn't be so bitter and focused on the past.

 

[telsor]

Oh man, please give up.

I get your worldview is RICHMOND BIG RICHMOND GOOD SMALL CLUB SMALL MUST DIE but the world is more complex than that.

You actually can't conceive of the matters being discussed.

What, because I understand how things work, as opposed to your 'I want it to be true, and wont let any facts get in the way of that'?


Tell me, what do you think would happen to a club that cannot meet minimum standards for fielding an AFL team?

 

[Sir Skid]

No, but if one does, it will be St Kilda.

Nah. North do so well down there. ;-)

 

[Gavin Excell]

It is striking that a Port fan is calling out the financial situation of North given their own troubles

 

[Freomaniac]

I can't see it. Not in the short to medium term at least. The AFL seem to want the ACT to be part of the GWS fan area for a while yet. (I think its only slowing down GWS penetration into Sydney, they don't look committed to being a western Sydney team; but smarter heads than mine make that call.)

I also don't see it as very likely my home state (Tas) gets a team.
Although, coronavirus might actually make that more likely due to the decreased costs of running a team. If (very big If) it becomes only $25m a year to run a small club, that might be affordable (until the inevitable spat over where finals are held) assuming the Tas economy isn't hit too badly in the aftermath. And Tas might not suffer the same impact, as it had less to fall from to begin with. $40m a year is a big ask in a small, dispersed demographic.

Funny thing is, I can see Canberra get an AFL side before tassie.

ACT and Tassie both have a population of 500,000 the big difference is, Most of the ACT population live in one area and thats canberra. You can have an AFL team play in a redeveloped Manuka oval than can hold 25,000 seats. But that is My view.

Dont get me wrong I wouldnt mind a Tassie side. But I wish that Hobart had a population of 400,000 people. That means 20-25,000 rocking up at belrieve at hobart.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Funny thing is, I can see Canberra get an AFL side before tassie.

ACT and Tassie both have a population of 500,000 the big difference is, Most of the ACT population live in one area and thats canberra. You can have an AFL team play in a redeveloped Manuka oval than can hold 25,000 seats. But that is My view.

Dont get me wrong I wouldnt mind a Tassie side. But I wish that Hobart had a population of 400,000 people. That means 20-25,000 rocking up at belrieve at hobart.

A team would probably be financially more stable here. There would be far more call for corporate boxes etc thanks to all the bribery for Commonwealth contracts, and very few big contracts to win in Tassie. The all-important secondary sponsors would be likely to put up more money here. There wouldn't be the screen eyeballs here, even the more expensive advertising rates wouldn't make up for that.

But both the Raiders and Brumbies have times where they are on the ropes, and the AFL seems to see Canberra as a GWS prop. Plus, the ACT government would not be prepared to spend taxpayer money to the same extent every year (or Raiders and Brumbies would be demanding at least as much money).

 

[Canberra Pear]

Funny thing is, I can see Canberra get an AFL side before tassie.

ACT and Tassie both have a population of 500,000 the big difference is, Most of the ACT population live in one area and thats canberra. You can have an AFL team play in a redeveloped Manuka oval than can hold 25,000 seats. But that is My view.

Dont get me wrong I wouldnt mind a Tassie side. But I wish that Hobart had a population of 400,000 people. That means 20-25,000 rocking up at belrieve at hobart.

The Giants tried to upgrade Manuka Oval to 19,000 a few years ago, which is still too small for AFL, and the Manuka community shut it down. Manuka Oval is too small (and likely always will be) and too inconvenient.

The AFL should be lobbying the ACT Government to ensure the new Civic Stadium has an oval configuration. It's planned to be central, a 25,000-30,000 capacity and, most importantly, undercover. Very important in the Canberra winter!

A new stadium is a 30-year-plus investment, so the AFL needs to get in before it's too late. It should combine its lobbying with Cricket Australia dangling a potential BBL side for the city. They've hosted a few games at Manuka Oval, too, but I doubt 13,500 would be big enough for a primary BBL team home venue.

 

[Freomaniac]

The Giants tried to upgrade Manuka Oval to 19,000 a few years ago, which is still too small for AFL, and the Manuka community shut it down. Manuka Oval is too small (and likely always will be) and too inconvenient.

The AFL should be lobbying the ACT Government to ensure the new Civic Stadium has an oval configuration. It's planned to be central, a 25,000-30,000 capacity and, most importantly, undercover. Very important in the Canberra winter!

A new stadium is a 30-year-plus investment, so the AFL needs to get in before it's too late. It should combine its lobbying with Cricket Australia dangling a potential BBL side for the city. They've hosted a few games at Manuka Oval, too, but I doubt 13,500 would be big enough for a primary BBL team home venue.

I have always wondered why the ACT government shut down the Idea to develop manuka oval. it wouldnt cost a lot.

Saying that, the ACT government has invested in that rectangular Canberra stadium. Well the ACT Brumbies player Rugby union, Canberra raiders play in the NRL.

I was hoping Canberra would get a side in the A-league too. thats another team suitable for Canberra stadium.

Would be intersting if they made a 25-30,000 seat oval. Imagine a BBL side in The ACT

 

[fargothegreat]

I'm not sure how many of you have read the Tasmanian Government's report (keeping in mind it is modelled on pre-coronavirus football department expenditure), but it requires only the equivalent AFL dividend of median size AFL clubs of $17m. This is also based on a Tas government contribution of only $7.3m, but the government have stated a willingness to pay up to $1m per home game ($11m in total), therefore a Tasmanian team could cost the AFL as little as $13m per year, almost $10m less than what small clubs such as North and St Kilda are costing them.

It's a solid argument and the reason why so many are calling for a merger to make room for Tassie (which if you take the emotion out of things is the correct call), but even if this doesn't occur Tasmania is still profitable to the AFL as the 19th team because the extra 11 games that this generates is worth just shy of $20m to the AFL based on the current broadcast rights.

 

[Pessimistic]

Not going to happen. Any Tassie team will be financially unviable and without the growth factors that GWS/Gold Coast have. At best it'll be another St Kilda/North Melbourne, so any future Tassie team (which I do support) should be a 19th team.

so when’s the ‘growth’ going to arrive. Another ten years?

 

[Pessimistic]

History may repeat. In 1986 Fitzroy declined to move to Brisbane and a new team was formed there. 10 years later, Fitzroy was forced into a merger with the Bears, and a new powerhouse was born (tho a short-lived dynasty). That gave the AFL a license to hand to Port Adelaide to enter the league in 1997.

North Melbourne could be merged with Gold Coast, thus getting rid of two problem birds with one stone. Tasmania then becomes team #18.

would be better as theteam we got in fitzroys place was the Power, who need to go to China to stay afloat

 

[SaltPeter]

Give any of St Kilda, Nth and Melbourne the opportunity to merge. The odd man out dropped out of the AFL altogether, they can continue in VFL/ VFA or completely dissolve.

And then give Tassie their own team.

 

[Del191229]

Nah. North do so well down there. ;-)

We do nicely on a part time deal. Helped us pay our debt off.

 

[Del191229]

I'm not sure how many of you have read the Tasmanian Government's report (keeping in mind it is modelled on pre-coronavirus football department expenditure), but it requires only the equivalent AFL dividend of median size AFL clubs of $17m. This is also based on a Tas government contribution of only $7.3m, but the government have stated a willingness to pay up to $1m per home game ($11m in total), therefore a Tasmanian team could cost the AFL as little as $13m per year, almost $10m less than what small clubs such as North and St Kilda are costing them.

It's a solid argument and the reason why so many are calling for a merger to make room for Tassie (which if you take the emotion out of things is the correct call), but even if this doesn't occur Tasmania is still profitable to the AFL as the 19th team because the extra 11 games that this generates is worth just shy of $20m to the AFL based on the current broadcast rights.

That report is built on Fantasyland figures.

 

[Sir Skid]

We do nicely on a part time deal. Helped us pay our debt off.

A sure sign of a successful relocation for North in the Apple Isle.

Besides, we'd just stuff it up anyway.

 

[Del191229]

What, because I understand how things work, as opposed to your 'I want it to be true, and wont let any facts get in the way of that'?


Tell me, what do you think would happen to a club that cannot meet minimum standards for fielding an AFL team?

The AFL would take them over and run them

 

[Del191229]

A sure sign of a successful relocation for North in the Apple Isle.

Besides, we'd just stuff it up anyway.

You already have once.

Man, the insouciant attitude of St Kilda supporters to their plight astounds me.

You're sleepwalking to disaster.

 

[fargothegreat]

That report is built on Fantasyland figures.

What evidence do you have of this? Or are you just talking shit because you don't like the findings?

 

[Sir Skid]

You already have once.

Man, the insouciant attitude of St Kilda supporters to their plight astounds me.

You're sleepwalking to disaster.

Lolz. So having a joke with you is sleepwalking to disaster... Riiggghhhttteeoothen

 

[SaltPeter]

Clearly the best option for the AFL in the longer term is to create a relegation system for all the Victorian teams. The year the AFL decides to create a new team in Tasmania, that they so richly deserve, the lowest 3 ranked Victorian teams on the ladder should be relegated to the VFL.

Based on current ladder positions, all of the Dogs, Geelong and Melbourne would be relegated this year for example.

In subsequent years, the lowest 2 teams from Victoria, should again be relegated to the VFL. With the top teams from the VFL promoted to join AFL ranks.

Obviously this is a win win win for everyone. A team in Tassie. A reduction to a 16 team premier competition. A culling of excessive Melbourne based teams, though not a loss of the teams to the system. An opportunity for any of the VFL teams to be promoted to the big league. They’ll all have something to genuinely play for.


* Seriously, this deserves its own thread